Planning Firearms Build

[summatsupeer]

Played POE1 a lot and completed POE2 a few times (PotD + Scaling Up) but always melee characters. Planning my next run and want to use firearms (siding with Principi) . I've used Maia a lot with a Arquebus so would like to try to use Pistol(s) or Blunderbus(s)/Mortar(s).  I'm trying to find something with an interesting synergy, but nothing overly complex to setup and avoiding weapon switching builds. 

My current thought is Mortar(s) as Scout (Ranger+Rogue) but i'm not sure what abilities/effects work with the AOE of Mortars.  Concussive Tranquilizer + Confounding Blind + Toxic Strike abilities look like they could work well for Dual Wield Blunderbus if all the hits stack on a single target or with Mortars if the AOE applies it to everyone?  Throw in Driving Flight from Ranger abilities to add to the AOE.  Do these abilities work as I'm hoping? If so i'll want the usual Dex+Per for damage but rather than Might would Int be 3rd most important?  I was thinking having set 1 as Blunderbus' and set 2 as Mortars though would struggle vs high slash + piece DR enemies, especially with low-ish Pen but could take the pen ability of the Rogue?

I've not ruled out Pistols but looks like there's less synergies?  The raw Damage pistol looks handy since it has multishot, assuming the abilities I mentioned above get applied. 

Having said all this, I could just use Maia to try this out. Her extra range is probably better than a subclass so easier to get into range for Blunderbus/Mortar.  Any other SC or MC fun builds? I see Monk is popular in builds when i've searched but probably the class I understand least.

Edited March 5, 2022 by summatsupeer

[Constentin Lévine]

Effects from abilities are applied to everyone in the AoE, but with some exceptions : like for Poisons, Shadow Step paralyse effect only concern the first target. 

Speaking about Scout, Eliminating Blow with dual mortars is a "Full-Least unstable Coil" stuff : when you get this belt, because the ability trigger another one on hit and mortar hit many enemies, you can get all the tier3 inspirations. It is the same for Kind Wayfarers's Flame of Devotion and upgrade by the way.

But early in game, with the Heaven's Cacophony and so Avenging Storm, Mortars are mortals because (maybe I'm wrong) the fire AoE from the Blunderbuss modal trigger, like the AoE attack itself, the lightnings. I'm sure about Blinding Smoke in other hand. 

What do you like about Rangers subclass?

 

[NotDumbEnough]

Play Helwalker/Ranger or Helwalker/Rogue. Get Serafen's starting hand mortar and the one you receive from his personal quest. With high intellect and perception you can just endlessly spam Stunning Surge against a crowd of enemies for free (note that Stunning Surge also refunds wounds despite the tooltip).

 

I personally didn't enjoy such a build though as it is ridiculously powerful and more or less trivializes most encounters.

Edited March 5, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[summatsupeer]

16 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Effects from abilities are applied to everyone in the AoE, but with some exceptions : like for Poisons, Shadow Step paralyse effect only concern the first target. 

Speaking about Scout, Eliminating Blow with dual mortars is a "Full-Least unstable Coil" stuff : when you get this belt, because the ability trigger another one on hit and mortar hit many enemies, you can get all the tier3 inspirations. It is the same for Kind Wayfarers's Flame of Devotion and upgrade by the way.

But early in game, with the Heaven's Cacophony and so Avenging Storm, Mortars are mortals because (maybe I'm wrong) the fire AoE from the Blunderbuss modal trigger, like the AoE attack itself, the lightnings. I'm sure about Blinding Smoke in other hand. 

What do you like about Rangers subclass?

I did consider Paladin + Rogue to get the passive that would remove the Powder Burns modal penalty but I use Paladin so much I want to avoid them.

No subclass really stand out to me for a Blunderbuss build, Sharpshooter for the extra pen is interesting but being close range and having less deflection and slower rate of fire (when stacking on-hit effects) seems pretty bad.  Hence I think Maia might be better to use for a Scout Blunderbuss build so still considering other classes to combine with Rogue as i'd like to give the Toxic Strike ability a go as I didn't understand how it worked until I started researching for this run.

[summatsupeer]

4 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Play Helwalker/Ranger or Helwalker/Rogue. Get Serafen's starting hand mortar and the one you receive from his personal quest. With high intellect and perception you can just endlessly spam Stunning Surge against a crowd of enemies for free (note that Stunning Surge also refunds wounds despite the tooltip).

 

I personally didn't enjoy such a build though as it is ridiculously powerful and more or less trivializes most encounters.

That sounds like one i've read previously. Its partly why i've not really used Monk in POE 2, they've always sounded super strong and I know i'd get bored.  Many topics I read about it are 2018 so i'm unsure if patches have affected them.

[Constentin Lévine]

Toxic Strike is keyworded as Poison, so against foes that are not immune, you can gain +4 PL with the items from the Kraken and Splintered Reef (with BPM since the mod make the ability KW match with the KW). If you want to build around this ability, maybe MC with a druid can be nice, or with a wizard : as ranged, the ranger side you dont really want provide some acc bonus you can compensate with Citzal's Martial Power +20acc. I dont know if the inherent +10acc from Toxic Stike stack with it since both are active. 

You gain also some potential good selfbuff that the rogue side dont have. 

You can also consider a ranged Barbarian-rogue , Carnage and some passive dont work for ranged attacks but I played a ranged Barbarian sometime, that was really nice.

Also, the Watershaper's Focus rod with the modal bounce one time in AoE, with a longer range than Mortars. I think his AoE apply the abilities"s effect for all targets too.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Kaylon]

I would say the monk is almost mandatory to a mortar build because Stunning Surge increases greatly your survivability. As a ranged character you have poor defenses and you're also close to the enemies - without a hard CC you'll be attacked very often. Also mortars/blunderbusses scream streetfighter... A ranger doesn't add much besides Driving Flight to a mortars build. Also without Avenging Storm the damage is solid, but not spectacular (Frostseeker, Citzal's Spirit Lance or Lord Darryn's Voulge builds can do more AoE dps).

PS. Maia has increased range only with arquebuses, arbalests and crossbows.

[summatsupeer]

Just finished a Fanatic run so rather not play Barbarian or Paladin.  Some interesting options there @Constentin Lévine.  Thats got me thinking:

• Chanter + Rogue - I was just thinking about this, main reasons being summon tank help, then -DR invocation to help with damage. Plus reload chant and add fire lash (something else vs immune enemies) to add to the damage.  Probably trying to do too much in one character though and will get blown up easily being short ranged.
• Wizard + Rogue - Got the option of protective spells, plus can do some debuffs/CC.  Pull of Eora, Expose Vulnerabilities and Combusting Wounds all spring to mind initially as combining with Mortars really well.
• Druid + Rogue - Doesn't really spring to mind, but does add some good survivability and other DOT abilities and need to be able to last for Toxic Strike to build up.
• Priest + Rogue -  I always mix up Druid and Priest, but did like idea so can buff and help survive longer.
• Monk + Rogue - If doesn't get stupidly OP and boring its an option. Adds to survivability plus abilities like Stunning Surge (as @Kaylon just pointed out) that synergize with the Mortars.

Out of these options Wizard + Rogue is the most interesting to me.  It would make a change as I tend to use Cipher or Chanter more as I seem to always run out of wizard abilities too fast, so favour the classes who can regenerate them.

I've also tended to avoid the subclasses that require you to have negative effects, i'm not great at managing them without getting myself overran or blown up, but I might give Streetfighter a try @Kaylon.  Would you only recommend running Streetfighter with a more tanky 2nd class like Monk?  Thanks for pointing out my memory fail with Maia's subclass!

[Kaylon]

41 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

I've also tended to avoid the subclasses that require you to have negative effects, i'm not great at managing them without getting myself overran or blown up, but I might give Streetfighter a try @Kaylon.  Would you only recommend running Streetfighter with a more tanky 2nd class like Monk?  Thanks for pointing out my memory fail with Maia's subclass!

Yes, monk/streetfighter with mortars has great synergy and doesn't require any particular micro - you just activate Powder Burns and enjoy the increased attack speed and damage.

[Boeroer]

The other suggestions here are all cool and fun to play.

But I will always recommend single class Monk with dual mortars because it's still my favorite ranged combination after thousands of hours played. Not saying that other combos aren't very nice, too. Just my personal taste I guess.

You'll get Stunning Surge a lot sooner bc. of faster Power Level Progression of single classes. Same with Duality of Mortal Presence (INT). Stunning Surge with huge AoE due to +10 INT is extremely good with mortars because you will nearly always get a critical hit if you target several enemies, giving you back the Mortification points.

Then you will get Resonant Touch at some point - and that is extremely potent with Hand Mortar+Blinding Smoke & Fire in the Hole+Chain Shot. Blinding Smoke can produces a lot of additional attack rolls which - although they deal no damage - will apply a Resonant Touch. Fire in the Hole will jump one time including the AoE, adding even more Resonant Touches.

And finally you'll get Whispers of the Wind which is absolutely fantastic in combination with mortars and Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak. WotW makes you invisible which allows the cloak's stun to work.

Also a scroll of Avenging Storm or the Helm Heaven's Cacophony are absolutely insane with Hand Mortar + Fire in the Hole because of Blinding Smoke and Chain Shot. 

With WotW you do an AoE attack with AoE weapons, result is either instant death of enemies - or they are left with so many Resonant Touches that you only have to trigger it and then they die. 

Against single targets just summon the Long Pain fists (they are very good backup weapons). Or use normal Blunderbusses.

You'll have two summons with Dichotomous Soul which help with the survivability. 

I've played two full runs with Mortars Monks now (1. Helwalker, 2. Nalpasca - prefer the Nalpasca, the faster wound generation lets you spam WotW non-stop) and it has been a blast both times.

It is very benefical to build a party around the mortar monk who can keep enemies in a group instead of spreading out. This can be achieved by simply using a tank who unstealthes first and get swarmed by enemies and who can pull enemies in with Into the Fray or so. Spells like Pull of Eora are also extremely helpful. The Mortar Monk also works well without that, but it increases the devastation considerably when enemies are standing near each other. I used Edér with a Large Shield + modal and a belt that makes immune to push + pull (so he is not influenced by Pull of Eora) and Aloth with Pull of Eora or an Arcane Archer with Imbue:Pull of Eora. Not mandatory but as I said: improves things a bit.  

Few impressions (attention, huge animated gifs, may take a while to load):

Edited March 6, 2022 by Boeroer

[summatsupeer]

@Boeroer definitely seen those before, looks really strong! Probably because its not trying to do everything in one character which I think i'm making the mistake of.  I am kind of interested trying it, partly because my version probably won't be as strong since i'm not as good and never had a player Monk in POE2 .  I might give it a go as my Blunderbuss build whilst thinking/researching more about how to do a Toxic Strike build.

One thing i've thought about is Rogues with high INT hurt there damage in POE1 since they were typically "X damage for Y seconds" not "X damage per second for Y seconds" and INT increased Y so just spread out the damage.  Is that's still true in POE2? Its mostly "X damage per 3 seconds for Y seconds" for DOTs now?  What about Deep Wounds or is it not worth worrying about? It would mean debuffs are applied for longer though .  Are Mortars even the best way to apply Toxic Strike / Confounding Blind?

[summatsupeer]

Went with Monk + Rogue... if its at 9/10 build (since Boeroer prefers SC Monk) then my next best build is like 5/10.  Its so strong and can do so many different things.

• AOE Blind that also lowers deflection
• AOE Hobble that also causes damage when moving (which they will if companions use push / Pull of Eora type abilities)
• AOE Stun
• Self buff Might + Pen
• Self buff Int (or Con)
• Self buff Attack speed
• Fire damage (from Blunderbuss modal)
• Lightning lash

Thats without items / scrolls etc. Most fights don't need to bother with drugs either.   Just send Eder (Swashbuckler) in to tank, have aloth/others push/pull/debuff opponents whilst the Shadowdancer kills everything.

Whilst I wanted to give Toxic Strike a go, everything except the highest DR enemies die before its damage would build up and so many enemies are immune to poison I rarely use it.  For 3 guile, i'd rather have 3 uses of Arterial Strike, or 1 of Confounding Blind + 1 Arterial Strike than just 1 Toxic Strike.  Even when against high DR enemies you can chip away constantly with Tenacious active to give +2 pen and a companion lowering DR by 2 its usually good enough, especially with crits.  Its probably better to just take Pierce The Bell for this build than Toxic Strike.  Plus a companion with a high DR weapon to help or raw damage, Serafen as a 2 handed Witch in my game.

Now i'm not sure when Toxic Strike would be worth taking in a build...

[Kaylon]

19 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Went with Monk + Rogue... if its at 9/10 build (since Boeroer prefers SC Monk) then my next best build is like 5/10.  Its so strong and can do so many different things.

Do you play a plain monk/rogue or nalpazca/streetfighter? And of course the equipment makes a big difference for the build. Ring of the Marksman, Ring of the Focused Flame, Acina's Tricorn, Devil of Caroc Breastlpate (with Devil's Due) can greatly increase your effectiveness. Also when you run out of resources it's better to switch to mortar + Toutilo's Palm (you attack just as fast but with increased defenses). 

[summatsupeer]

Yep Nalpazca/Streetfighter using Ripple Sponge.

Gear:

• Miscreants Leathers
• Heavens Cacophony
• Ring of Marksman
• Chameleons Touch
• Boots of Stone
• Protective Eothan Charm
• Cloak Of Greater Protection

Had these items for ages - not really thought about changing (just hit level 20).  I did try Acina's Tricorn though but prefer the option of Avenging Storm for harder fights.

I don't think Devil of Caroc Breastplate is an option cos of the story option I picked from POE1.  Does Ring of the Focused Flame work cos of the Blunderbuss modal?  I gave it to Herald Pallegina until I realised she will leave when I side with Principi.  Brought Priest Xoti back in mainly as healer but buffs and more pulls with Call of Rymrgand. Swashbuckler Eder as tank and Wizard Aloth are doing great.  Witch Serafen doesn't seem to be doing much except nearly dying all the time but does help when killing boss enemies by lowering Fortitude and Disintigration, it is funny when he blows himself up next to a crowd though.  If wasn't siding with Principi and wanting to keep him around I might of switched him for someone else with more single target damage, I think a lot of the best Barb abilities to increase attack speed rely on kills but he doesn't really get any since he spends so much time healing/interupted and my Shadowdancer pretty much takes them all.

Edited March 12, 2022 by summatsupeer

[Kaylon]

Yes, the Ring of Focused Flame helps greatly the Powder Burns attack. DoCB helps with survivability, but if you're fine then keep Miscreant's Leathers. Heaven's Cacophony is of course great if you rest often (personally I like to stack the resting bonuses).