The All Things Political Topic - As a Bright Lord bears Beacons of flame.

[ComradeYellow]

Yes, @Gorth Conservative vs. Alt Right,  welcome to U.S. politics.  I am, however, getting the impression that the general populace is more socially liberal now than just a decade or two ago, fiscal conservatism remains defacto, though.

Europe seems to be in a political no mans land at the moment, just kinda observing the situation.  Business as usual.

Russia's government under Putin remains quite right wing, however at least they have a growing Communist opposition, that is far more effective than the whole ultra pro-West Navalny situation.  KPRF supports Navalny's stance against government corruption but is very much against his pro-Western views.

CCP reigns supreme and is in the midst of the 3rd great "transformative" period, where society undergoes radical reforms.  The first was Mao, then Deng, now it's Xi.  They are gearing up for the 4th industrial revolution and are trying to fix social "extremes" (extreme poverty vs. extreme wealth, etc).

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by ComradeYellow

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Yes, @Gorth Conservative vs. Alt Right,  welcome to U.S. politics.  I am, however, getting the impression that the general populace is more socially liberal now than just a decade or two ago, fiscal conservatism remains defacto, though.

Europe seems to be in a political no mans land at the moment, just kinda observing the situation.  Business as usual.

Russia's government under Putin remains quite right wing, however at least they have a growing Communist opposition, that is far more effective than the whole ultra pro-West Navalny situation.  KPRF supports Navalny's stance against government corruption but is very much against his pro-Western views.

CCP reigns supreme and is in the midst of the 3rd great "transformative" period, where society undergoes radical reforms.  The first was Mao, then Deng, now it's Xi.  They are gearing up for the 4th industrial revolution and are trying to fix social "extremes" (extreme poverty vs. extreme wealth, etc).

 

Yeah, Europe is a mess. At least they mostly seems to mind their own business these days.

Navalny is not somebody you want in power. He's an ultra nationalist that makes Putin pale in comparison and used to campaign on stuff like Russia for Russians and all muslims should be summarily executed without further ado (up until recently you could still find his campaign videos on Youtube, showing him in military fatigues branding a gun at a drawing of a stereotypical muslim). His pro-western tune is very new and probably only to garner support for his failed ultra nationalist campaign (although he now calls it anti corruption rather than kill all non Russians)

CCP has no end to their problems. Energy crunch. Worlds highest pollution rate in it's cities. A collapsing property sector (literal and economically). A firm commitment made by Xi to start a war if necessary (he did make a solemn wow in that regard, Taiwan will become occupied, by force if necessary). Some day, the occupied country of Tibet might decide that guerilla warfare is preferable to cultural genocide. Speaking of which, they have another large ethnic group that was conquered in recent centuries, which don't feel comfortable living under Beijing.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Yeah, Europe is a mess. At least they mostly seems to mind their own business these days.

Navalny is not somebody you want in power. He's an ultra nationalist that makes Putin pale in comparison and used to campaign on stuff like Russia for Russians and all muslims should be summarily executed without further ado (up until recently you could still find his campaign videos on Youtube, showing him in military fatigues branding a gun at a drawing of a stereotypical muslim). His pro-western tune is very new and probably only to garner support for his failed ultra nationalist campaign (although he now calls it anti corruption rather than kill all non Russians)

CCP has no end to their problems. Energy crunch. Worlds highest pollution rate in it's cities. A collapsing property sector (literal and economically). A firm commitment made by Xi to start a war if necessary (he did make a solemn wow in that regard, Taiwan will become occupied, by force if necessary). Some day, the occupied country of Tibet might decide that guerilla warfare is preferable to cultural genocide. Speaking of which, they have another large ethnic group that was conquered in recent centuries, which don't feel comfortable living under Beijing.

It always surprises me when people living in first world countries  believe they are mess or dysfunctional. The fact that places like the EU and the USA have a huge problem with immigration with people desperate to immigrate their should tell us something about the question " are these countries really a mess" ?

Dont get me wrong, you guys living in the US and the EU are perfectly  entitled to your opinion as its part of freedom of speech which matters as its  important. But  the view that countries rated constantly and consistently  as offering excellent examples of quality of life, hence being immigration destinations, have " bad governments "  begs an important question, if you think the US and the EU is bad what do you think about Africa, Central America, the ME or places like South America?

I shudder to think  

[ComradeYellow]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

CCP has no end to their problems. Energy crunch. Worlds highest pollution rate in it's cities. A collapsing property sector (literal and economically). A firm commitment made by Xi to start a war if necessary (he did make a solemn wow in that regard, Taiwan will become occupied, by force if necessary). Some day, the occupied country of Tibet might decide that guerilla warfare is preferable to cultural genocide. Speaking of which, they have another large ethnic group that was conquered in recent centuries, which don't feel comfortable living under Beijing.

I'm sorry but this just strikes me as  white supremacist and pro-western propaganda.  It's kind of hard to imagine that Tibet will rise up against the CCP when it looks like Taiwan will fall to the PLA at the first fart.  Yes, Eastern society is...strange by Western standards, but their current trajectory shows very few contradictions (AKA they clearly know what they want, unlike the West where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing) and seem to be formulating a semblance of vision for the future.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said:

I'm sorry but this just strikes me as  white supremacist and pro-western propaganda.  It's kind of hard to imagine that Tibet will rise up against the CCP when it looks like Taiwan will fall to the PLA at the first fart.  Yes, Eastern society is...strange by Western standards, but their current trajectory shows very few contradictions (AKA they clearly know what they want, unlike the West where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing) and seem to be formulating a semblance of vision for the future.

How is it white supremacist to point out the long list of human rights abuses and societal problems in  China?

It is self-inflicted by the CCP  and real unless you personally dont believe in freedom of speech, independent and transparent  courts and the right to vote?  

[ComradeYellow]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

How is it white supremacist to point out the long list of human rights abuses and societal problems in  China?

It is self-inflicted by the CCP  and real unless you personally dont believe in freedom of speech, independent and transparent  courts and the right to vote?  

In America you can get life in prison for possession of marijuana or 15 years in federal prison for possession of a .22LR bullet under the proper circumstances, and federal forces trying to enforce a 'nanny' state while at the same time calling out the CPC for human rights infringement.  I'm sorry but you're gonna call people out for 'violations' you might want to clean up your own back yard first, especially as China has a +20 higher average IQ than the average American and a much lower crime rate per capita.

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

In America you can get life in prison for possession of marijuana or 15 years in federal prison for possession of a .22LR bullet under the proper circumstances, and federal forces trying to enforce a 'nanny' state while at the same time calling out the CPC for human rights infringement.  I'm sorry but you're gonna call people out for 'violations' you might want to clean up your own back yard first, especially as China has a +20 higher average IQ than the average American and a much lower crime rate per capita.

You cant really compare how the CCP runs China through its own laws and policies with issues around how in some US states they foolishly still think marijuana is illegal

You still have  many Constitutional rights enshrined in the fabric and psyche of US society that are immutable and would require serious legal Constitutional changes before the US became anything like China 

Lets keep it simple and tell me how these things dont exist in any Constitutional Democracy that include

• a free media 
• freedom of speech
• ability to criticise your government 
• the ability to actually vote ...you get to decide who you want to run the country
• transparent courts
• workers rights and stimulus aid

None of these exist in China so if the US has to clean its " backyard" then China needs to clean its " forest " if we are going to make reasonable comparisons like this  

 

[Gorth]

23 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

How is it white supremacist to point out the long list of human rights abuses and societal problems in  China?

It is self-inflicted by the CCP  and real unless you personally dont believe in freedom of speech, independent and transparent  courts and the right to vote?  

Don't ruin a good rant by adding facts to the conversation. It muddles everything. Some people appreciate the power of simplicity. No choices, no decisions, no options, no thinking required, no accountability other than to your superior, just do as you're told. A surprising number of people appreciate that kind of life. Others might find it stifling.

You asked about what is wrong with Europe? My take on it, is it has become stagnant. And with stagnation, Entropy is not far away. Eventually the circle jerking and mutual back patting will tick off people in various corners of the continent, because yeah, Entropy has that effect. The feeling of being small, worthless gears in a big machinery causes a sense of disenfranchisement (shame on me for using such pompous words). Too big, too unwieldy, too removed from people. Nobody loves a system they feel alienated from. The biggest crime (imho) is the complete lack of initiatives that could give people a purpose, unite them or just make them appreciate what they got.

But, hearts are rarely won by committees (or politburos). The Balkans know what the difference between war and peace feels like. Most of Northern and Western Europe live in their own little bubbles of self containment and self indulgence.

Sadly the anarchist party is currently not accepting other members. More than one makes the decision making a hassle

 

[Gorth]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Lets keep it simple and tell me how these things dont exist in any Constitutional Democracy that include

• a free media 
• freedom of speech
• ability to criticise your government 
• the ability to actually vote ...you get to decide who you want to run the country
• transparent courts
• workers rights and stimulus aid

None of these exist in China so if the US has to clean its " backyard" then China needs to clean its " forest " if we are going to make reasonable comparisons like this 

The crossed out items are not inherently part of "Constitutional Democracy". In theory, maybe. In reality, only sometimes. When not too inconvenient. But dictionary definitions don't really matter in your day to day life. Only the reality does.

Free media? Nice theory. Italy under Berlusconi, Australia under Murdoch's News Corp are two examples of "free media" gone wrong, because the media are owned 90% and 80% respectively by one person. Which means, you wont get a fair and free debate on an equal footing about political issues.

Free speech... doesn't apply in Australia. Not sure what the situation is in other countries. The Morrison Government have been busy raiding the one non-Murdoch controlled broadcaster when the truth becomes inconvenient. Internet Youtubers (The Friendly Jordies have been released now) seized by anti terror police and removed, because their satire of the governments corruption and lies got too many views. Basically any reveal of outright lies and corruption is met with immediate libel cases. The last one was hilarious. They actually won the case... but the minister had to resign because he could NOT disclose who paid his legal fees. Yes, that's how bad it is.

Ability to criticize your government?.... hahahaha. See above.

Transparent courts? Like when the Vatican paid $2m the get their pedophile cardinal (George Pell) out of jail and put on a plane to Rome... as the only passenger and in the middle of a total lock down, with borders closed.

 

As said, some things looks better on paper than in reality.

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Don't ruin a good rant by adding facts to the conversation. It muddles everything. Some people appreciate the power of simplicity. No choices, no decisions, no options, no thinking required, no accountability other than to your superior, just do as you're told. A surprising number of people appreciate that kind of life. Others might find it stifling.

You asked about what is wrong with Europe? My take on it, is it has become stagnant. And with stagnation, Entropy is not far away. Eventually the circle jerking and mutual back patting will tick off people in various corners of the continent, because yeah, Entropy has that effect. The feeling of being small, worthless gears in a big machinery causes a sense of disenfranchisement (shame on me for using such pompous words). Too big, too unwieldy, too removed from people. Nobody loves a system they feel alienated from. The biggest crime (imho) is the complete lack of initiatives that could give people a purpose, unite them or just make them appreciate what they got.

But, hearts are rarely won by committees (or politburos). The Balkans know what the difference between war and peace feels like. Most of Northern and Western Europe live in their own little bubbles of self containment and self indulgence.

Sadly the anarchist party is currently not accepting other members. More than one makes the decision making a hassle

 

Good points raised and your first paragraph is 100 % correct, to quote 

Don't ruin a good rant by adding facts to the conversation. It muddles everything. Some people appreciate the power of simplicity. No choices, no decisions, no options, no thinking required, no accountability other than to your superior, just do as you're told. A surprising number of people appreciate that kind of life. Others might find it stifling.

This is exactly what it means to be a  citizen in China and if this led to an overall better quality of life and ended inequality I would support it but it doesnt 

China has massive economic inequality, in the rural areas many Chinese people living their cant even legally  buy property in the cities and their are no real workers rights that enforce things like " minimal wage "

So China has a trenchant and established economic hierarchy but I accept that most Chinese citizens are happy and content with the system...but that doesnt make it even remotely a system of government I would support or will ever replace the success of Constitutional Democracies

 

[ComradeYellow]

I am an extremely white and an extremely independent anarchist 'thinker', bow before my Druid and non-violent, non-hierarchical logic, for the white man clearly sets the spiritual tone for mankind.

That's really all I can gather from this, but I guess that makes me a simpleton cucking to my non-existent superiors, eh?

Edited November 8, 2021 by ComradeYellow

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Gorth said:

If I should describe US politics after the last (half) dozen posts here, it sounds like the Democrats are the conservative option and the Republicans the regressive option

Democrats aren't actually that good at leading and Republicans want to turn the U.S. into a theocracy. In the context of your post, the Democrats are too busy chasing the mob qualify as conservative (at least in any way I've heard that term used, politically), while your label for Republicans is possibly appropriate.

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, Gorth said:

The crossed out items are not inherently part of "Constitutional Democracy". In theory, maybe. In reality, only sometimes. When not too inconvenient. But dictionary definitions don't really matter in your day to day life. Only the reality does.

Free media? Nice theory. Italy under Berlusconi, Australia under Murdoch's News Corp are two examples of "free media" gone wrong, because the media are owned 90% and 80% respectively by one person. Which means, you wont get a fair and free debate on an equal footing about political issues.

Free speech... doesn't apply in Australia. Not sure what the situation is in other countries. The Morrison Government have been busy raiding the one non-Murdoch controlled broadcaster when the truth becomes inconvenient. Internet Youtubers (The Friendly Jordies have been released now) seized by anti terror police and removed, because their satire of the governments corruption and lies got too many views. Basically any reveal of outright lies and corruption is met with immediate libel cases. The last one was hilarious. They actually won the case... but the minister had to resign because he could NOT disclose who paid his legal fees. Yes, that's how bad it is.

Ability to criticize your government?.... hahahaha. See above.

Transparent courts? Like when the Vatican paid $2m the get their pedophile cardinal (George Pell) out of jail and put on a plane to Rome... as the only passenger and in the middle of a total lock down, with borders closed.

 

As said, some things looks better on paper than in reality.

Okay but you cherry picking example of abuse in all Constitutional Democracies, irrespective of the Murdoch media monopoly are you saying that Australian citizens cant say " we hate our government and thinks its corrupt " ...you cant do that in China ?

And the definition of what defines any Constitutional Democracy does matter, here is good link that defines the definition

https://www.reference.com/world-view/define-constitutional-democracy-c5e47d7bb058799b

But to summarize 

Constitutional democracy is a system of government in which the limits of political authority are clearly stated and the electorate has the power to remove poor performing governments. Countries that adhere to the political system of a constitution democracy usually have a legal framework, such as a constitution, by which to rule over the country. The United States is an example of a country with a constitutional democracy.

Do you disagree with this definition and things like freedom of speech and human rights are part of most Constitutions so when you say they " not inherently part of a Constitutional Democracy " I am not sure what you mean when certain realities and rights are enshrined in most of  our Constitutions?

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

I am an extremely white and an extremely independent anarchist 'thinker', bow before my Druid and non-violent, non-hierarchical logic, for the white man clearly sets the spiritual tone for mankind.

That's really all I can gather from this, but I guess that makes me a simpleton cucking to my non-existent superiors, eh?

Comrade I agree that geopolitics and local political realities can be confusing but I have a good idea, agree with me on basically everything around my political and economic views and you cant go wrong. Problem solved 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.reference.com/world-view/define-constitutional-democracy-c5e47d7bb058799b

But to summarize 

Constitutional democracy is a system of government in which the limits of political authority are clearly stated and the electorate has the power to remove poor performing governments. Countries that adhere to the political system of a constitution democracy usually have a legal framework, such as a constitution, by which to rule over the country. The United States is an example of a country with a constitutional democracy.

Your link is wrong... the US is not a constitutional democracy

 

I'm sure someone like Gromnir can explain in better than I, but last time I checked it was a constitutional republic. Which is why the one with the most votes doesn't necessarily win an election. The "constitution" part trumps (pun unintended) everything else.

 

Well, at least according the US government. You can agree or disagree with them as you chose https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/

I know, that is nitpicking on terminology, but you did mention once the importance of agreeing on the terms used in a discussion.

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Your link is wrong... the US is not a constitutional democracy

 

I'm sure someone like Gromnir can explain in better than I, but last time I checked it was a constitutional republic. Which is why the one with the most votes doesn't necessarily win an election. The "constitution" part trumps (pun unintended) everything else.

 

Well, at least according the US government. You can agree or disagree with them as you chose https://ar.usembassy.gov/education-culture/irc/u-s-government/

I know, that is nitpicking on terminology, but you did mention once the importance of agreeing on the terms used in a discussion.

You not nitpicking at all when its comes to correct definitions of things especially if the debate is  partly about those semantics

Lets see if Gromnir responds and I always appreciate his legal insights ....just as long as he doesn't tell us the US is " not a Constitutional Democracy " 

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/us-democratic-constitutional-republic-and-yes-it-matters/

Gorthfuscious dont let these liberal, legal, jedi mind tricks fool you when it comes things we know are true...facts are facts always 

But this link aligns more with your definition that its a "democratic, constitutional republic ". This debate  becomes more confusing with each link 

[Gorth]

After all that cheerfulness, now for something more depressing...

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59199484

There are more delegates at COP26 associated with the fossil fuel industry than from any single country, analysis shared with the BBC shows.

"Their influence is one of the biggest reasons why 25 years of UN climate talks have not led to real cuts in global emissions."

...

Overall, they identified 503 people employed by or associated with these interests at the summit.

They also found that:

    Fossil fuel lobbyists are members of two country delegations, Canada and Russia
    The fossil fuel lobby at COP is larger than the combined total of the eight delegations from the countries worst affected by climate change in the past 20 years
    More than 100 fossil fuel companies are represented at COP, with 30 trade associations and membership organisations also present
    Fossil fuel lobbyists dwarf the UNFCCC's official indigenous constituency by about two to one

One of the biggest groups they identified was the International Emissions Trading Association (IETA) with 103 delegates in attendance, including three people from the oil and gas company BP.

According to Global Witness, IETA is backed by many major oil companies who promote offsetting and carbon trading as a way of allowing them to continue extracting oil and gas.

"This is an association that has an enormous number of fossil fuel company as its members. Its agenda is driven by fossil fuel companies and serves the interests of fossil fuel companies," Mr Worthy said.

"What we seeing is the putting forward of false solutions that appear to be climate action but actually preserve the status quo, and prevent us from taking the clear, simple actions to keep fossil fuels in the ground that we know are the real solutions to climate crisis."

 

Well, not really *my* future (I'm too old, I'll be dead and gone before Earth Hell freezes), but I think the world could do with a few more young people worrying about the(ir) future. It probably won't serve any nationalist interests and it wont necessarily give any 'Like' clicks on social media, but hey, you never know... Alexander was in his early 20's when he changed the world.

 

[BruceVC]

29 minutes ago, Gorth said:

After all that cheerfulness, now for something more depressing...

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59199484

There are more delegates at COP26 associated with the fossil fuel industry than from any single country, analysis shared with the BBC shows.

"Their influence is one of the biggest reasons why 25 years of UN climate talks have not led to real cuts in global emissions."

...

Overall, they identified 503 people employed by or associated with these interests at the summit.

They also found that:

    Fossil fuel lobbyists are members of two country delegations, Canada and Russia
    The fossil fuel lobby at COP is larger than the combined total of the eight delegations from the countries worst affected by climate change in the past 20 years
    More than 100 fossil fuel companies are represented at COP, with 30 trade associations and membership organisations also present
    Fossil fuel lobbyists dwarf the UNFCCC's official indigenous constituency by about two to one

One of the biggest groups they identified was the International Emissions Trading Association (IETA) with 103 delegates in attendance, including three people from the oil and gas company BP.

According to Global Witness, IETA is backed by many major oil companies who promote offsetting and carbon trading as a way of allowing them to continue extracting oil and gas.

"This is an association that has an enormous number of fossil fuel company as its members. Its agenda is driven by fossil fuel companies and serves the interests of fossil fuel companies," Mr Worthy said.

"What we seeing is the putting forward of false solutions that appear to be climate action but actually preserve the status quo, and prevent us from taking the clear, simple actions to keep fossil fuels in the ground that we know are the real solutions to climate crisis."

 

Well, not really *my* future (I'm too old, I'll be dead and gone before Earth Hell freezes), but I think the world could do with a few more young people worrying about the(ir) future. It probably won't serve any nationalist interests and it wont necessarily give any 'Like' clicks on social media, but hey, you never know... Alexander was in his early 20's when he changed the world.

 

Gorthfuscious dont you feel like an absolute failure when you consider the state of global warming and you ask yourself the important question " what have I done in my life journey  to help prevent this " ? 

And there are lots of things you could have done like join these militant greenpeace organisations and declare war on oil refineries and mining companies ....but sadly most of us have become armchair and internet forum activists 

The world has become a sad place and I just dont know how any of us  wake up and get out of bed because of all these historical failures....well I mean apart from waking up  to have a delicious breakfast, meet friends or family and do some gaming....I mean apart from those reasons " how do we get out of bed "????

[ShadySands]

Kamala Harris's approval rating falls to 28%, a historic low for any modern vice president

Quote

President Joe Biden has been on a months-long slide toward historically poor polling numbers, but yesterday's USA Today/Suffolk poll was even worse for Vice President Kamala Harris.

Biden's approval rating hit yet another a new low, this time at 38%, but Harris' dropped to 28%.

A 51% majority of respondents said they disapprove of the job Harris is doing as VP.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 minute ago, ShadySands said:

Kamala Harris's approval rating falls to 28%, a historic low for any modern vice president

 

I honestly can't think of a thing that Harris has done. Which given the situation we find ourselves in, is pretty damning.

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I honestly can't think of a thing that Harris has done. Which given the situation we find ourselves in, is pretty damning.

I don't know, that's kind of how I usually feel about the VP. It is weird that people even have a strong opinion of her when she is barely in the news.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

13 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

I don't know, that's kind of how I usually feel about the VP. It is weird that people even have a strong opinion of her when she is barely in the news.

I think the opinion polls of the VP can be correlated to the opinion polls of the President and their party in general. So such a low opinion of Harris is indicative that there are a lot of people who are not happy with the way things are going. This is not very good news for Democrats, who in addition to facing the falloff from the general election to midterms are going to be fighting through gerrymandering and voter suppression in 2022 and 2024.

[ShadySands]

I think she was put in charge of the migrants at the southern border but that landmine was never going to go well and she also had something about the type of working environment she fosters but I think that also came up before when she was running for President. Basically, she's not a nice person or whatever and working for her sucks or so the claims go.

[Gorth]

Honest government ads at it again... (for those who can't stomach Greta Thunberg, she's just a cameo at the end)

 

 

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Kamala Harris's approval rating falls to 28%, a historic low for any modern vice president

 

My views on her becoming the VP were mixed because my biggest concern was what if she became president? She lacks the institutional experience or credibility but she has been very successful in her career as a politician but that doesnt automatically make you a good president or VP

Also anyone from the Democrats is going to be  an epic failure on your border crisis because Democrats have the worst approach to this. But Republicans are not much better if you think of the Trump approach, they better but not by much

Saying all that I do think Biden has been unfairly  criticised and judged on certain things and his approval rating is also  low and Harris is going to be part of that public opinion irrespective of things she may have done right or rather not done wrong