Rating usefulness of the Chanter chants

[Ouroboros226]

I just want to see if my impression of the various chants' power and usefulness matches reality So I'm gonna post my thoughts on them here - hoping you guys will agree/disagree on them for discussion and feedback. I'm just rating 0 for useless, 1 for weak, 2 for good, 3 for fantastic. I rate them with an emphasis on their power for their tier and in opportunity cost measured against other chants. 

T1

Soft winds of death: The raw damage dealt in an aura with its supplemental heal, is good early game. Even midgame - in encounters with lots of weaker enemies, this ability is still useful. In very long fights, it can contribute to supplementary damage. What makes it really shine from my point of view, is that constantly dealing low damage softens and may kill enemies which are at death's door. Why is that strong? Because action economy is king. And if this aura finishes off a foe, that saves your party an action with 95% overkill (hence wasted). Despite maybe being less useful later on, I rate this 3/3.

 

Quickest of his tribe: 1.2 multiplier to stride and 10 reflex save. Just a solid 2/3 imo. Helps with positioning and repositioning. If it's actually 1.2M stride, and not a multiplier, then I'd rate it as 1/3. Kinda situational. Can be helpful in big long fights with many medium threat enemies, or fights where you need to reach somewhere fast. 

 

Dull the edge: -10% slash and pierce damage to enemies affected. Seems so miniscule that even on PoTD, the low value makes it useless. For perspective, this would take a gunshot dealing 25 damage down to 22-23 damage. 50 damage down to 45. If this was 20-25% (considering it only affects 2 damage types), this chant wouldn't be the joke it is. 0/3. 

 

Their hearts grew bold: a minor +10 fort and will save. It's not the most interesting chant out there, but it's decent. 2/3. 

 

T2

Stumbling words: Not sure how this one works. It says FOE aoe, so it affects enemies. But it says it grants immunity to concentration attacks which sounds beneficial for them?! Yet the description says it removes concentration from enemies. Under the impression that it makes enemies easier to interrupt, I'd say it's a 1/3. It's not that this is bad, it's just that it is bad compared to the better chants this competes with.

Power of saints: Resistance to constitution and resolve afflictions. This will downgrade all ailments of these types for all allies in range. I'd say this is a solid 3/3.

T3

Ancient memory: heals everyone in your party for 1 health/per sec. I assume chants don't stack, that would make this hilariously broken if so. It may look like little, but in regards to action economy this helps passively topping people up. Resulting in you (or another healer) having to use less actives on heals. Also grants a permanent safety net sort of. I rate this 3/3.

Run and leap: Reduces disengage acc for enemies against your disengaging party members. Very situational but good for what it does. You could switch song to this to disengage I guess. I can imagine this one being decent on PoTD in a pinch if you need to disengage. Can save rogues resources by not needing to use escape for example. 2/3.

Arrows with speed: 20% recovery and reload time with ranged weapons. If you have one ranged character I'd rate it 3/3 because even with just 1 person using ranged, it's strong. With 2+ people using ranged weapons - even better. Doesn't do anything for spells or melee, but they won't need this anyway - giving more freedom for other chants. So even the downside is an upside. 

T4

Mith Fyr: 15% burn damage to weapons for all allies. But only on weapons. I'm giving this a 2/3. It's good if you have few spellcaster dps, but burn is a common resist among enemies.

Revenge of morning: -2 might, weakened - on enemies. 2/3 imo it's a solid chant if you have a rogue or more that can utilize this for sneak attacks and such. And that's in addition to the debuff itself which halves enemy healing and debuffs their con by -25%. Playing a herald bleak walker you could go around spreading sickened and weakened like some kind of plague bearer  

Silver knight: +10 deflection, +1 engagement to allies. 2/3. It's good if you get swarmed to avoid being flanked. 

T5

Deck they went: resistance to dexterity and might afflictions. I'd rate this 2/3. I'd say it would be 3/3 if there weren't so many dex resist items + a racial covering the dex part. Solid.

Thick as steel: 10 point damage shield. But I'm not sure if it gets reapplied every second, or only at the start or end of this chant. If every second, 3/3 as it's basically a permanent 10 damage reduction. Still a solid 2/3 if it's only at start/finish of each chant period. Because mitigating damage for the entire party even if only once per 6s, is imo still strong.

Dragon trash: I've never used this one myself, so it's hard for me to judge how it performs. I'd wager it is great vs large groups while kinda bad vs smaller elite encounters. I'm also unsure how this one scales. I don't feel I can rate this one myself.

T6

Fampyr gaze: These afflictions can be nasty. Kinda situational based on encounter though. Solid 2/3.

Hunger was sated: 3/3 if it affects spells, 2/3 if not. Giving the whole party life steal is good for sustain. I'm guessing this allows a more "offense is the best defense" approach. In that this chant can actually allow some item switch freedom due to the heal being based on damage done. 

T7

Many lives: 2/3. Constantly summons distractions against enemies, and you can combo some stuff by targeting them yourself. It's good.

Mercy: All allies receive 50% more healing. 3/3, crazy strong. Too bad it comes so late in the game though.  

T8

Slay the beast. 2/3. Situational. But good at what it does. 

T9

Arrow sings: +1 pen for the whole party. 3/3. Simple but great chant. Always strong. 

 

 

[Boeroer]

11 hours ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Dull the edge: -10% slash and pierce damage to enemies affected. Seems so miniscule that even on PoTD, the low value makes it useless. For perspective, this would take a gunshot dealing 25 damage down to 22-23 damage. 50 damage down to 45. If this was 20-25% (considering it only affects 2 damage types), this chant wouldn't be the joke it is. 0/3. 

Your examples are not correct. Damage reduction (and other percentage based mali) in Deadfire works mostly multiplicative in contrast to damage bonuses that are most often additive. Check out this link to know why: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/inversions

Still not a great chant because of the slash/pierce restriction. Would be a great chant if it was a universal 10% dmg reduction. 

11 hours ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Stumbling words: Not sure how this one works. It says FOE aoe, so it affects enemies. But it says it grants immunity to concentration attacks which sounds beneficial for them?! Yet the description says it removes concentration from enemies. Under the impression that it makes enemies easier to interrupt, I'd say it's a 1/3. It's not that this is bad, it's just that it is bad compared to the better chants this competes with.

It removes Concentration from enemies and does a hit roll vs. Will for that. It can be very useful against enemies that you want to interrupt (casters, bosses) but who have Concentration which would normally require you to remove the layers of Concentration (some enemies have more than 10 layers!) with a lot of interrupts. 

It is very good in combination with "Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone". Because also chants with hit rolls will interrupt enemies if they crit. This one does a hit roll, too - so you are removing Concentration and doing a hit roll with this at the same time. A Troubadour chanting with Brisk Recitation has a chance to interrupt every enemy in chanting range every 3 secs...

11 hours ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Arrows with speed: 20% recovery and reload time with ranged weapons. If you have one ranged character I'd rate it 3/3 because even with just 1 person using ranged, it's strong. With 2+ people using ranged weapons - even better. Doesn't do anything for spells or melee, but they won't need this anyway - giving more freedom for other chants. So even the downside is an upside. 

The hidden awesomeness of this phrase is that it will apply both the 20% recovery bonus AND the 20% reload bonus to all reloading weapons which leads to a pretty phenomenal speedup for all who use an arbalest, crossbow or firearm. That's why Streetfighter/Troubadour (with Sure Handed Ila + Mith Fyr with blunderbusses or with the help of upgraded Wisps that distract you) may reach the highest DPS with reloading weapons. Red Hand + Heating Up + Sure Handed Ila... ouf). Besides that it works for your whole party...

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All resistance phrases are very good because they can make the party nearly immune to all addressed afflictions:

- got paralyzed -> chant resistance reduces it to immobilized -> other chant -> again resistance chant, reduces immob. to hobbled -> next time chant hits it reduces it to nothing...

But in order to do that the resistance has to go away in between - so it's best to alternate between those chants every 3 secs. That way you can make your whole party quasi-immune to all afflictions that are covered by those chants. 

Instead of chaining different resistance chants you can also remove the resistance shortly by simply using an invocation (invocations stop chanting briefly).

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Thick as Steel is very good for slow tanky chars who only suffer very little damage normaly and woukd only die from a thousand little cuts. Combined with Ancient Memory it can make you immortal because the little damage that comes through from underpenetrating grazes will get further reduced by this and what comes through can be healed by Ancient Memory. For other chars it's not that useful. 

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Many Lived Pass By is extremely good with Brisk Recitation. Every 3 secs there will be a weak skeleton that automatically stops enemies, dies quickly (good with some class abilities and items) and doesn't count towards the summoning limit). If you have a SC Paladin in the party it's kind of mandatory because it provides unlimited Zeal for that Paladin via Divine Retribution. Also a confused Berserker in the party loves those weak skeletons (Blood Storm, Blood Thirst, healing on kills via pet or weapon etc.). In general I consider this phrase to me the most potent one. It has the most universal impact on the battlefield in all situations imo. Never useless. 

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Old Siec works with spells. But the draining is limited to the first hit roll of an action iirc. So you will not gain massive amounts of health from the AoE of a fireball. Better used with high dmg single target stuff. Still good though.

If you want an ability that drains life from ALL damage that is done (except Wall spells) you need to use the Furyshaper's Blood Ward. It is Old Siec on massive steroid overdose.

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The Long Night's Drink is excellent. It's my go-to chant for Howlers because of Brute Force (Spirit Frenzy + this phrase applies both weakened and staggered with one hit roll - add a Morning Star with Body Blows and you'll attack a very low fortitude defense most of times). -14 fortitude debuff on the fly from CON and MIG loss besides the weakening effects themselves (-health, reduced healing). There are some shady things going on if you apply weakened, deal damage, lift weakened, deal damage, apply weakened and on. Basically it causes more health loss than you actually did deal damage. I did a quick test & analysis two years ago or so but can't find it now. Anyway it's a great phrase. 

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Dragon Thrashed is just a shadow of its PoE1 glory. It's pretty bad unless you have a highly defensive and slow playstyle. If you then combine it with Soft Winds of Death and Blackened Plate it becomes quite useful. Best if somebody gives you bonus PEN though and/or lowers enemies' DR because it doesn't have that much PEN (e.g. a Cipher casts Driving Echoes on you).

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My most used phrases are:

Mith Fyr, Sure Handed Ila, The Long Night's Drink, Many Lives Pass By

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Boeroer

[Ouroboros226]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this Boeroer  Always appreciated! I wanted to see if I wrongfully considered a bad chant good or the other way around. I completed my first game on veteran, so now I'm trying my first playthrough on PoTD. Then I will try Veteran ironman and try not to fail at the hardest boss in the game... Gorecci street. 

 

Making a herald support/healer for PoTD since I can dump perception completely.

 

 

[abot]

Soft winds of death is one of the best level 1/not changeable aggressive chants that any build can use all the game

Ancient memory is always good too, I choose it as my not-aggressive chant (you need one not aggressive chant to more easily stay in stealth when needed) and this one can heal Vela a little too

Stumbling words: great against any enemy not immune to interrupts, there is nothing as good to clear enemy concentration automatically.
Apart "Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone" invocation, it shines if you have any way to get energized (e.g. from Least Unstable Coil).
But it is not bad even just using it with the ancient weapons special attacks (so they can have +10 accuracy and interrupt more easily)

Many lives IMO is what makes ultimate challenge builds not based on being not detectable/unkillable possible, a troubadour can control the battlefield with it + other summons especially if you couple it with the grave calling sabre paralyzing chillfog

These are the 4 chants I always get

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by abot

[thelee]

20 hours ago, Boeroer said:

- got paralyzed -> chant resistance reduces it to immobilized -> other chant -> again resistance chant, reduces immob. to hobbled -> next time chant hits it reduces it to nothing...

But in order to do that the resistance has to go away in between - so it's best to alternate between those chants every 3 secs. That way you can make your whole party quasi-immune to all afflictions that are covered by those chants. 

you don't actually have to make the resistance go away/switch between chants. for some reason, the game checks again and re "applies" the resistance chant effect even if it's just refreshing. i definitely have resistance songs that are a single resistance chant on loop, and it works like a charm.

it means troubadour can wipe out even tier 3 afflictions really quickly.

 

On 9/4/2021 at 4:49 PM, Ouroboros226 said:

But I'm not sure if it gets reapplied every second, or only at the start or end of this chant. If every second, 3/3 as it's basically a permanent 10 damage reduction. Still a solid 2/3 if it's only at start/finish of each chant period. Because mitigating damage for the entire party even if only once per 6s, is imo still strong.

it's only applied at the start of the chant. which means it is super powerful for a troubadour, who can refresh it every 3s. it is still good for other chanters to start a song wtih, so that when you switch to a song (or after an invocation) everyone gets an immediate 10-pt shield, which has a more immediate lift on your survivability than ancient memory (which is still very good, especially as a follow up to the 10-pt shield).

 

17 hours ago, abot said:

Stumbling words: great against any enemy not immune to interrupts, there is nothing as good to clear enemy concentration automatically.
Apart "Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone" invocation, it shines if you have any way to get energized (e.g. from Least Unstable Coil).

it's also just a general great party utility. plenty of boss fights where it would be nice for aloth to squeeze in a slicken or thrust of tattered veils and actually have it do something. (btw i've seen belranga get up to like 66 concentration, real great to have stumbling words when that happens)

[Boeroer]

Even better!

I don't actually use the resistance chants - because the "cascading immunity" feels so darn cheesy, hehe. So my in-game experience is limited and I just assumed there has to be a little gap.

Barb's Unflinching works the same - but here at least you have to drop below and raise above 50% health to trigger that effect. Which is more effort imo - so the potential immunity feels more justified. 

[Ouroboros226]

8 hours ago, thelee said:

it's only applied at the start of the chant. which means it is super powerful for a troubadour, who can refresh it every 3s.

This made me realize a huge factor to chant selection. I never actually use brisk at all on troubadour, because the only reason I like troubadour is because of the extended linger. Could you give me some tips on what chants to avoid and which to take if one never uses brisk vs a player always using brisk? I'm guessing the most powerful way to play troubadour, is using it strategically. So both. I don't like the added micromanagement of having to constantly change it. So personally I simply never used it.  

 

Another thing I'm wondering is how much int one needs with troubadour to have 3 effect in play at all times. I know starting with 20 int allows 100% uptime on 2 chants, so I'm using that. I'm still fairly new, completed veteran and now I'm working on path of the damned (neketaka atm). Playing a Herald and I'm sure I saw a comment somewhere that troubadour with enough int can achieve 3 chants perma uptime. I suck at math though so unsure how much I'll need.

 

[thelee]

7 hours ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Could you give me some tips on what chants to avoid and which to take if one never uses brisk vs a player always using brisk?

you really could just play like a normal chanter. you only have to worry about chant synergies with the brisk modal on, because then things can get a little funky (in your favor).

 

7 hours ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Playing a Herald and I'm sure I saw a comment somewhere that troubadour with enough int can achieve 3 chants perma uptime.

for self-buffing chants, i think this is impossible. you would need to get an additional +9s out of your linger, and every +50% duration increase (+10 intellect or troubadour benefit) only gives you 1.5s.  Last time I checked, unlike a bunch of other stuff, you don't benefit from many duration-extending effects due to how linger is implemented as something that "overrides" normal spell duration effects (though you can use Wall of Draining or Salvation of Time after a chant has been applied). You also don't get power level bonuses to chants, at least in terms of duration (probably for similar reasons as above, "linger" overrides how most normal spell effects work).

So given all that, after including troubadour bonus, you still need 4.5s worth of duration, which is +30 intellect, and since stats are capped out at 35, that seems impossible (e.g. you'd need 40 intellect). So you can get partial uptime on 3 chants, but I don't see a way to get 100% uptime on 3 chants persistently.

 

there is one chant where you could effectively get 3 or more chants uptime. the skeleton summoning chant is kinda broken in terms of duration, so with modest intellect you could already get 3+ skeletons. (the skellies have a duration of 10s adjusted by your intellect; the linger mechanic is broken with them).

[Boeroer]

Does stuff like Strand of Favor and Cabalist's Gambeson with the lingering effects on you (of let's say Mith Fyr etc.)? Because WoD and SoT do work as soon as the effects are on you - so I guess those also add duration? There's also food that does +x% beneficial duration. So at least for yourself or a single character (not for the party) you could in theory have the effects of 3 phrases without using WoD and SoT?