Back at it! Suggestions for MC: Spellblade with Snakeskin poison theme, or Helwalker/Streetfighter Blunderbass Extraordinare??

[mjo2138]

Hello Everyone,

 

It is time for another run of Deadfire! Have been enjoying reading the recent posts, and I wanted to pick your collective brains about a few things. I want to do things different in my next run (POTD, Scaling -All, not solo) , and here are some ideas for MC, and how to build Eder/Xoti in different ways. Please let me know what you think!

 

1. Blunderbuss (sp) Helwalker/Streetfight. Trigger Heating up with power burns, then use Hand Mortar / Fire in the hole for AOEs with stunning surge or rogue skills. Will Enduring Dance stack with powder burns? I see this build would be really strong on paper. Race suggestions?  Wsa thinking Hearth Orlan for the crit bonus

 

2. Streetfigther/Soul Blade. Similiar build as above, but I would focus on buffing and CC. Have never played Soul blade.... could be fun! Race suggestions? Hearth Orlan for the crit bonus

 

3. Spellblade (Bloodmage/Streetfighter) using Snakeskin grimore. Would require some microing to trigger heated up. How can I achieve this? (btw, I read Wisps from a chanter can already trigger flanked??) seems like this, or powder burns modal, would be a good way? as for race, was thinking human or godlike alongside a dedication priest for SoT and Barring deaths door. 

Idea is, this character would teleport around the battles and destroy targets after buffing up with wizard spells. Wouldn't focus as much as casting. Minor blights would suffice if enemies are poison / piercing immune. Lots of room for thematic development here. Race suggestions? 

 

4. Lastly, I want to avoid making eder a swashbuckler every time. I do the same meta (sabres) and it is kinda old now, but effective.

 

How would you build Eder as a SC fighter or SC Rogue? I really wanna do something different this time around. I feel like I end up using the same characters, with the same builds and spells, which can get dry. Thanks in advanced!

[dgray62]

Powder Burns will distract you, resulting in -5 accuracy, but Enduring Dance will boost your accuracy, and will help mitigate this while it lasts. As for street fighter soul blade, it would be a lot of fun, I am sure. Soul blade is my favorite cipher subclass. You'll do serious damage with soul annihilation, boosted as it is by rogue damage buffs like sneak attack and death blows. I think that the blunderbuss build would be the easiest to manage, since you could renew powder burns easily whenever needed. But there are other ways to do this, as you know. You can have a chanter summon wisps, and you can have them attack you. If you do this, wear Deltros' Helm (as Boeroer often suggests) to get a lightning lash for awhile. Your spell blade could also cast chill fog over him/herself. If you go with this route, you might want to take svef, to downgrade blinded to disoriented. But you'd still get the recovery time penalty. Not sure if it's worth it.

[Not So Clever Hound]

Hi there, just a few thoughts on some of your points/questions.

27 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

Race suggestions?

For all these MC builds (primarily damage dealers) and knowing it's for party play, you can't go wrong with Hearth Orlan!

31 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

3. Spellblade (Bloodmage/Streetfighter) using Snakeskin grimore.

Have you checked this thread below that @Ophiuchus created for a similar build? Some really nice ideas.

 

35 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

How would you build Eder as a SC fighter or SC Rogue?

I think the first key question is: are you ready to do a lot of micro on him or let him play mostly on autopilot? SC Rogue = lots of micro required, SC Fighter = not a lot of micro needed to fulfill their role IMO.

[mjo2138]

57 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Powder Burns will distract you, resulting in -5 accuracy, but Enduring Dance will boost your accuracy, and will help mitigate this while it lasts. As for street fighter soul blade, it would be a lot of fun, I am sure. Soul blade is my favorite cipher subclass. You'll do serious damage with soul annihilation, boosted as it is by rogue damage buffs like sneak attack and death blows. I think that the blunderbuss build would be the easiest to manage, since you could renew powder burns easily whenever needed. But there are other ways to do this, as you know. You can have a chanter summon wisps, and you can have them attack you. If you do this, wear Deltros' Helm (as Boeroer often suggests) to get a lightning lash for awhile. Your spell blade could also cast chill fog over him/herself. If you go with this route, you might want to take svef, to downgrade blinded to disoriented. But you'd still get the recovery time penalty. Not sure if it's worth it.

Thanks!

 

So chillfog would give me flanked status, but blinded as well right? I see how powder burns might be the better choice, but it is really good to have this option. Thanks!

 

I like the idea of a soulblade/streetfighter. Especially with the lightening theme! 

 

49 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Hi there, just a few thoughts on some of your points/questions.

For all these MC builds (primarily damage dealers) and knowing it's for party play, you can't go wrong with Hearth Orlan!

Have you checked this thread below that @Ophiuchus created for a similar build? Some really nice ideas.

 

I think the first key question is: are you ready to do a lot of micro on him or let him play mostly on autopilot? SC Rogue = lots of micro required, SC Fighter = not a lot of micro needed to fulfill their role IMO.

Thank you! I will check that one out.  I wouldnt mind the micro of SC rogue, but how much of it can be scripted for an AI? I generally try to focus on super micro intensive builds ,especially since it will be a party run. That being said, it is good to know that both are viable options for Eder!

[Not So Clever Hound]

17 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

how much of it can be scripted for an AI?

That's a good question! I'm terrible at AI scripting besides automating Salvation of Time chain casting . Maybe someone has viable routines for an SC Rogue, most likely for Ranged/Gambit fest (end game). If you want to use Vanishing Strike and Melee weapons (again, talking end game here), it might be challenging to automate and minimize the "miss: out of range" issue for example, but I honestly don't know.

[mjo2138]

Thanks! Yes, i also am not an 'expert' at AI scripting; in fact, many times it is easier to just micro for me haha. Do you see any particular reason to keep Eder as a SC fighter? Honestly, I feel like  Swasbuckler is just as good... only advantages would be getting some fighter skills earlier on, none of which seem to be worth sacrificing sneak attack/rogue skills. 

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

7 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

Do you see any particular reason to keep Eder as a SC fighter?

Well I hear Sunder is pretty good... at least it put @Boeroer in a rockn'roll mood the other day:

But playing Eder as an SC Fighter Ranged might not work for you... though he can start melee and go ranged late game, or do both (!).

**SUNDER!!** (it's stuck in my head now, thanks Boeroer... ).

Edited September 2, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[dgray62]

5 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

Honestly, I feel like  Swasbuckler is just as good... only advantages would be getting some fighter skills earlier on, none of which seem to be worth sacrificing sneak attack/rogue skills. 

 

I agree. Both rogue and fighter bring great things to the MC, and complement each other well. You also don't loose too much at the 8th and 9th PL tiers by MCing.

[Boeroer]

If you want to make Edér a SC Fighter I would suggest picking up Clear the Path instead of Clean Sweep later on - because (Edér's lowish) INT has no effect on the AoE size of Clear the Path.

Clear the Path is very good imo. Especially when used with a Morning Star + Body Blows. It targets Fortitude so the Morning Star will apply -25 fortitude to all in the AoE which makes it a lot easier for follow-ups with additional Clear the Path uses (or Mule Kicks). And alternative can be a mace + modal - for example bind Magistrate's Cudgel to Edér. You can lower enemies' AR in the AoE and also with the cudgel you will instakill all lower-level kith on the spot with every crit-roll in the AoE. The AoE of Clear the Path is pretty broad and also very long.

I used to have a party with SC Barb Serafen and SC Fighter Edér. In the later game Serafen with Driving Roar and Edér with Clear the Path were like two cannons. Most enemies never got back up once they both started "firing".

 

 

[mjo2138]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

If you want to make Edér a SC Fighter I would suggest picking up Clear the Path instead of Clean Sweep later on - because (Edér's lowish) INT has no effect on the AoE size of Clear the Path.

Clear the Path is very good imo. Especially when used with a Morning Star + Body Blows. It targets Fortitude so the Morning Star will apply -25 fortitude to all in the AoE which makes it a lot easier for follow-ups with additional Clear the Path uses (or Mule Kicks). And alternative can be a mace + modal - for example bind Magistrate's Cudgel to Edér. You can lower enemies' AR in the AoE and also with the cudgel you will instakill all lower-level kith on the spot with every crit-roll in the AoE. The AoE of Clear the Path is pretty broad and also very long.

I used to have a party with SC Barb Serafen and SC Fighter Edér. In the later game Serafen with Driving Roar and Edér with Clear the Path were like two cannons. Most enemies never got back up once they both started "firing".

 

 

Thank you! That sounds like a great idea. In fact, lowering fortitude for so many enemies would make it easier for other classes to land Fortittude attacks (Blessed Harvest / Wizard spells come to mind) On another note having eder do this would mean Xoti doesnt need to use a morning star, and therefore could stay as SC Priest. Did you have Borth Serafen and Eder using Morning Stars in this build?

I hadn't used Clear the Path much before, so it is good to learn more about it from you. 

 

[mjo2138]

Thanks everyone for the tips : Here is what I am thinking. If you have any insights, I would welcome them. 

 

1) Streetfighter/Bloodmage - trying this one out now, only lvl2 so really hard to judge it. I figure I will play it as a 'rogue' who gets super buffed from wizard spells. I will then use Cobra Strike as my main attack, but I might also switch to daggers for a 'speed demon' build once I get Pukestabber. Honestly, it is kind of annoying having to 'switch' Heating Up on every 15 seconds, so I am going to explore having a Chanter's wisps do the job.

2) Helwalker/Streetfighter - by using  Blunderbasses (Fire in the Hole, Hand Mortar) I will achieve heating up at all times with the modal. Then, I can really go to town with AOE attacks from Stunning Surge/ Rogue Attacks.  This has potential, and I am trying it out on the 'newbie' island. I could use 'Long Pain' against piece immune mobs.  Would you suggest using a Pistol and Blunderbass instead? 

3) Assassin/Bloodmage - this would focus more on alpha strike casting, but I could still do the same things as a streetfighter without having to always worry about triggering heating up.

4) Streetfighter/Priest (Wael, Skaen?) Once I get BDD and SoT, I could keep myself 'alive', albeit it would be micro heavy . I think with the right combination of items, I could stay at bloodied (Bloody Links, other -DR items) but on POTD I could still get killed very quickly. What do you think?

 

 

 

[dgray62]

26 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

4) Streetfighter/Priest (Wael, Skaen?) Once I get BDD and SoT, I could keep myself 'alive', albeit it would be micro heavy . I think with the right combination of items, I could stay at bloodied (Bloody Links, other -DR items) but on POTD I could still get killed very quickly. What do you think?

 

 

 

If you want to try this option, I'd definitely recommend you consider thelee's Umezawa build. It's micro-intense but fun and powerful.

[Boeroer]

53 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

2) Helwalker/Streetfighter - by using  Blunderbasses (Fire in the Hole, Hand Mortar) I will achieve heating up at all times with the modal. Then, I can really go to town with AOE attacks from Stunning Surge/ Rogue Attacks.  This has potential, and I am trying it out on the 'newbie' island. I could use 'Long Pain' against piece immune mobs.  Would you suggest using a Pistol and Blunderbass instead? 

Mortars do pierce/slash dmg - so pierce immune enemies are not that much of a problem as if you used classic blunderbusses. On the other hand pierce immune enemies are often the ones who are most vulnerable to crush damage, so picking The Long Pain is still a good idea. It's also better against lonely targets. 

Stunning Surge with a Helwalker/Streetfighter and mortars is very effective. It's combined AoE CC & dps deluxe. Blinding Smoke (you should always pick that enchantment with Hand Mortar) unlocks Deathblows very reliably. No need to first use Debilitaing Strike or Blinding Strike. Just fire away with Stunning Surge. 

59 minutes ago, mjo2138 said:

3) Assassin/Bloodmage - this would focus more on alpha strike casting, but I could still do the same things as a streetfighter without having to always worry about triggering heating up.

Check out Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure which is an additional source of invisibility on top of Smoke Veil. Its invisibility does NOT break on CC hits, only damage. That means you can cast debuffs/CC from invisibility with +25 ACC and then follow up with a +25 ACC/+4 PEN (and potentially +50% crit dmg) nuke.

 

   

[mjo2138]

23 hours ago, dgray62 said:

If you want to try this option, I'd definitely recommend you consider thelee's Umezawa build. It's micro-intense but fun and powerful.

Thank you! I This looks like a great build; I always enjoy reading Thelee's guides!

23 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Mortars do pierce/slash dmg - so pierce immune enemies are not that much of a problem as if you used classic blunderbusses. On the other hand pierce immune enemies are often the ones who are most vulnerable to crush damage, so picking The Long Pain is still a good idea. It's also better against lonely targets. 

Stunning Surge with a Helwalker/Streetfighter and mortars is very effective. It's combined AoE CC & dps deluxe. Blinding Smoke (you should always pick that enchantment with Hand Mortar) unlocks Deathblows very reliably. No need to first use Debilitaing Strike or Blinding Strike. Just fire away with Stunning Surge. 

Check out Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure which is an additional source of invisibility on top of Smoke Veil. Its invisibility does NOT break on CC hits, only damage. That means you can cast debuffs/CC from invisibility with +25 ACC and then follow up with a +25 ACC/+4 PEN (and potentially +50% crit dmg) nuke.

 

   

Thank you for the tip! I forgot that hand mortars are separate from blunderbasses in that way.  I will make sure to pick up blinding smoke. If you don't mind, can you share the preferred upgrades for Fire in the hole and hand mortar. I know you really enjoy the aoe features of these weapons.

 

Yes, Arkemy's is excellent. That would be a fun direction to go with a spellblade assassain. Let me ask you:

1. Do you use empower much often , or do you focus on stacking rest bonuses . I end up not using empower later game once I start stacking up the Boons,  +2 stat bonuses from the alchemy pool, Luminous bathhouse, etc. I do still rest, but I always end up 'saving' my empowers. 

 

2. Do you use drugs and potions during difficult fights? I honesty use neither, mostly because I am too lazy to turn of AI and manually drink potions 

[dgray62]

1 hour ago, mjo2138 said:

Let me ask you:

1. Do you use empower much often , or do you focus on stacking rest bonuses . I end up not using empower later game once I start stacking up the Boons,  +2 stat bonuses from the alchemy pool, Luminous bathhouse, etc. I do still rest, but I always end up 'saving' my empowers. 

 

2. Do you use drugs and potions during difficult fights? I honesty use neither, mostly because I am too lazy to turn of AI and manually drink potions 

For me the answer is no to both questions, which is why I always play blood mage when I'm playing a mage. However, if you want to use empower, Andrea Columbo made a mod that makes the rest bonuses permanent, so you can empower away without worrying about losing those bonii.

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

If you don't mind, can you share the preferred upgrades for Fire in the hole and hand mortar. I know you really enjoy the aoe features of these weapons.

Hand Mortar: Blinding Smoke (friendly fire - like powder burns)

Fire in the Hole: Chain Shot (the AoE also jumps which makes landing crits for Stunning-Surge refunds even more likely)

[mjo2138]

Just an update- I am running the streetfighter/blood mage build, but honestly I am getting tired of the micro required to keep 'heating up' , since I want to run it as a melee rogue, not a blunderbass main. While a chanter could keep me distracted with wisps, I don't want to dedicate another character to only do this. Also, I don't want to use sparkcrackers or another method each and every fight. 

Therefore, time to change. I think a streetfighter/priest would be easier ,  or a pukestabber rogue/barb. I will sleep on it!