Monk tank??

[Abrax]

Hello, friends.

Ia it viable a monk as main tank? What class would fit him to do this role?

[Boeroer]

A Monk can raise his defenses quite a bit via Duality of Mortal Presence (+10 INT or CON means +20 Fortitude or Will), with Iron Wheel he can even gain +3 armor. A Helwalker can even add +10 MIG/+20 more Fortitude but will receive more damage. If you can prevent taking damage via higher defenses then his increased received dmg won't matter. If you can't he will feel squishy though. With Swift Strikes your DEX will go up by 5 points which means +10 Reflex, too. 

Crucible of Suffering is another way to increase defenses further.

Especially a Forbidden Fist Monk with high Resolve can be used to uphold the bonus of Crucible of Suffering at all times. 

Rooting Pain can be a help in order to preveng incoming damage from melee enemies. 

Blade Turning can be an excellent tanking tool, too.

The Dichotomous Soul can help with tanking a lot.

Classes that would be benefical for a MC Monk tank could be:

Wizard: can raise deflection a lot with self buffs which complements the Monk's raised non-deflection defenses. Can raise Reflex, too and later gain Wall of Draining which is especially good for prolonging buffs and stuff like Blade Turning. AR of spells like Spirit Shield will not stack with Iron Wheel but the increased INT of Turning Wheel is benefical for buff dirations. May lack engagement, needs to gain some with items.

Paladin: like always, may lack engagement, needs to gain some with items. Very good AR due to passives stacking with Iron Wheel. Goldpact's Gilded Enmity won't stack with Iron Wheel. so maybe pick another subclass or don't use Iron Wheel.

Fighter: like always, lots of engagement. Refreshing Defense stacking with everything the Monk has nicely. I'd use Unbroken or Devoted.

Trickster: not supertanky because the use of Mirrored Images etc. is limited by Guile and that might be scarce when getting attacked a lot as main tank - but might work with the right party. In the beginning not much engagement.

Stalker: good AR and defenses, additional body for blocking/engagement. Not so cool if Animal Companion goes down.

 

I'm sure there are other combos that work as well (Monk/Chanter for example?) but I haven't tried them as tanks or offtanks. 

 

 

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Abrax said:

What class would fit him to do this role?

In order, IMHO:

Forbidden Fist/Steel Garrote - look at @Powerotti and @dgray62 and other's posts. Outstanding, top-tier synergy.

Nalpazca or FF/Devoted or Unbroken: Forbidden Fist/Unbroken is the most tanky because you will want to max out RES and with Tuotilo's Palm = .

Helwalker/Blood Mage: the "Diva Tank" who takes their sweet time to come to fruition and requires a lot of love and attention. But it's a winner. OK it's also not exactly a Tank, at high enough level it's more a "Hold my beer" type of OP combo.

Of course, pure Monk any subclass can carry an entire team at high level, but that's not about being a Tank.

EDIT: and also of course, all the good stuff @Boeroer just wrote .

Edited August 17, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Not So Clever Hound]

@Boeroer, forever the:

[Abrax]

I just imagined a Devoted monk using Lord Darryn’s Voulge….

Edited August 17, 2021 by Abrax

[Not So Clever Hound]

5 minutes ago, Abrax said:

I just imagined a Devoted monk using Lord Darryn’s Voulge….

Nice pic but I think the best use of this weapon is with a Devoted/Berserker as @Kaylon wrote. I can dig up his short build layout if you're interested. Incidently, a properly built Devoted/Berserker can also kick b*tts with Monastic Unarmed Training... and still be Devoted to Pollaxes.

[Abrax]

3 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Nice pic but I think the best use of this weapon is with a Devoted/Berserker as @Kaylon wrote. I can dig up his short build layout if you're interested. Incidently, a properly built Devoted/Berserker can also kick b*tts with Monastic Unarmed Training... and still be Devoted to Pollaxes.

Interesting, but isn’t too squishy? I am terrible in manage berserkers health

[Not So Clever Hound]

Nope, it's not squishy. AFIK it's solo-viable.

 

[Abrax]

Thanks, I will take a look

[Abrax]

Interesting, but a brute won’t have the Kung fu moves like the monk. I started a Helwalker/Devoted, let’s see how he will perform:

MIG 15 CON 17 DEX 10 PER 21 INT 17 RES 10

 

[Abrax]

I was looking, and another good weapon would be Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff, maybe suit better the monk than poleaxes 

[Haplok]

11 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Trickster: not supertanky because the use of Mirrored Images etc. is limited by Guile and that might be scarce when getting attacked a lot as main tank - but might work with the right party. In the beginning not much engagement.

Well, its certainly not your typical hardcore hold the line, I have 5 engagement slots tank, but can be pretty damn effective if there are other offtanks in the party. The buffs he gets are strong - and include Repulsive Visage, that will often make near enemies unable to even attack him. And of course, he's also a damage monster.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Haplok

[Abrax]

Just realized how hard is to tank without a shield. At least in the early levels, my monk is taking too much damage.

I will try the Garrote/FF, I think the high RES combined with the Paladin defenses will give me a good survivability.

Again, there is the engagement issue, but I am planning use only another melee character, maybe in the end this won’t be a great problem 

[dgray62]

I think you'll find that it is a very strong melee combo that deals excellent DPS and can take a great deal of damage too. Probably best used as a off-tank with another tank with good engagement, but it's also very viable solo, in which case engagement is no longer an issue.

[Abrax]

I don’t know, I find Paladins kind of boring in this game…

I will try tweak a bit my devoted. Some considerations:

1. Helwalker? I am planning he be my main tank,a Vanilla monk would do better?

2. Is it worth spent points in INT? I pretend use Duality for the CON buff, if I keep INT in 10 is ok? 
 

3. If I keep INT in 10, I can raise RES

Edited August 19, 2021 by Abrax

[Boeroer]

Yes, you can also pick either Tactical Barrage or Enlightened Agony and get Smart at nearly all times (+5 INT - doesn't stack with Duality oMP's INT bonus) and pick Iron Wheel instead. Fortitude is an important defense (more important than deflection in the late-ish game) and thus raising CON and AR is good for a tank. 

Non-fluctuating, stable +5 INT will be as good as +0-10 INT based on wounds imo. Besides that Clarity of Agony is great for a tank since it removes afflictions so well.

I personally would pick Devoted's Disciplined Strikes for Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming and Enlightened Agony for +5 INT and go with Iron Wheel. 

You can go Helwalker for additional fortitude (and healing and damage) via MIG if your defenses and AR are great. Damage reduction via AR (underpenetration) and other sources of damage reduction (Death's Maw for example) have a lot more impact than the Helwalker's increased received damage. The first ones work a bit like multiplicative reductions while the Helwalker's increased dmg received is "only" and additive dmg bonus for your enemies. Still might hurt, but the additional fortitude defense and healing power shouldn't be neglected either. 

I personally would use Forbidden Fist though (if Community Patch is used). Just because the synergy of Forbidden Fist punch + max RES and the whole unique wound trait  is so good. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Boeroer

[Abrax]

Thanks for the answer.

I play on Xbox, so no mods for me. 
 

One more question:

My idea is to go devoted with poleaxes for two reasons: looks like a monk weapon (lol) and gives me engagement. But there is only Lord Darryn’s. Would be better if I go dual wield sabers or flais? Or even Chromoprismatic Quaertersaff because the enchant that reduces damage?

[Abrax]

One handed sabre, using one handed style to increase criticals. Is it monk-ish?

[Boeroer]

Why not. There are several great sabres in the game. It's not tank-ish though. You can achieve better tankyness with the small shield "Toutilo's Palm" that's made for monks. That would also look cool with sabres imo.

Quarterstaff + modal is an option for a more tanky monk as well. Chromoprismatic Staff comes rather late though. But any quarterstaff + modal would work before that. 

You could also place a sabre in the offhand and be a dual wielder (while looking like a one-handed guy). You would attack with your main hand fist and the offhand sabre then. That option would be the only one if you wanted to use St. Drogga's Skull (can only be equipped in the offhand since it works like s torch, too).

Back to one handed sabre: If you pick up the Animancer's Blade at some point you would look like a Jedi. And they are monks, too (sort of).

 

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Back to one handed sabre: If you pick up the Animancer's Blade at some point you would look like a Jedi. And they are monks, too (sort of).

Though if the OP is looking to RP a robed Monk that uses agility instead of armor/shield to dodge weapon attacks... that's not really the game for that. There is no such thing as a Lawful Good Monk Robe that adds Dodge bonus to your already high Dex/Wisdom or whatever  in Deadfire. You're going to need some armor.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Abrax]

38 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Though if the OP is looking to RP a robed Monk that uses agility instead of armor/shield to dodge weapon attacks... that's not really the game for that. There is no such thing as a Lawful Good Monk Robe that adds Dodge bonus to your already high Dex/Wisdom or whatever  in Deadfire. You're going to need some armor.

Yeah, I noticed that. Specially with mr wanting him to be a tank. I guess the closer I can be is a Goldpact paladin: even with the garrote/FF synergy being better, the +4 armor since the beginning will help a lot, plus all the defenses we know. 

But the armor look isn’t an issue for me , I can accept a monk in heavy armor. What I can’t accept is a monk in heavy armor wielding a two handed sword, or using a large shield

[Boeroer]

42 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

You're going to need some armor.

Yes, or extremely high defenses. The Humility Robe would be cool if its pierce/crush/slash resistance enchantments would scale with wounds (or Metaphysics or Insight or whatever).

[Boeroer]

14 minutes ago, Abrax said:

Yeah, I noticed that. Specially with mr wanting him to be a tank. I guess the closer I can be is a Goldpact paladin: even with the garrote/FF synergy being better, the +4 armor since the beginning will help a lot, plus all the defenses we know. 

But the armor look isn’t an issue for me , I can accept a monk in heavy armor. What I can’t accept is a monk in heavy armor wielding a two handed sword, or using a large shield

Tuotilo's Palm with the right enchantment (+1 deflection and reflex per wound) is better than a large shield. It's very good with fist as main weapon especially. But also great with any other one handed weapon. Later you could pick up this Brigandine: https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Kāhako_Nihi

Also Aloth's Armor isn't bad when it's fully enchanted to +2 crush AR . It's not heavy armor of course - but it's better than a Robe but looks like one. And the enchantments are pretty good. After the +2 crush AR it becomes a very well rounded armor without weaknesses. Maybe that's as far as one can go with a robe-looking armor compromise. 

Another option might be the Garari Cuirass. It is a leather armor but has the base AR of a breastplate basically. And it comes early and legendary.

Nomad's Brigandine is nice, too. It looks like a normal Brigandine (which don't shout "heavy armor" such as Plate Armor does) but has great enchantments for a tank (especially bonus deflection). An SC Monk can even use it to willfully disengage and get wounds in the process (Imagined Pain).

 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

 

9 hours ago, Abrax said:

One handed sabre, using one handed style to increase criticals. Is it monk-ish?

Devoted/monk with Scordeo's Edge works pretty well - lots of crits, free attacks, CCs. You can always switch to Scordeo's + Tuotilo's when you need more defense. Once you get Unbending Trunk you can even wear a light armor because you will outheal the damage from the enemies. 

[Abrax]

Thanks for all the good ideas guys.