Anime - Oh No! Oh My God!

[majestic]

1 minute ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I'll probably get there tonight or tomorrow.

Minor warning, episode 13 is a clip show, but it's not really skippable, otherwise you'll miss important thematic points (which you most likely won't notice until later, but still...). It's also pretty good for a clip show.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Does not compute: you can't be the worst if you're the only likeable character. There's no rational OR irrational explanation as to why she's the only likeable character, but that's the way it is, .

That can't be because Juri is the best in everything. The most likeable, the only character with a normal, relatable story arc and of course her voice is like the smooth feeling of silk against my ears.

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Music in shows like these always make me feel so old in soul. There's no reason that I should love the music of shows like Sailor Moon or Neon Genesis Evangelion and then hear their modern incarnations and think that it's the most boring, fraudulent garbage that has the complete opposite effect of what's intended. Even older stuff like Dragon Ball or Ranma, stuff that was made literally many years before I was even born, their music just...it works for me. Why? I don't know. Just another reason to add on the pile that most modern shows won't appeal to me while older stuff will, I suppose...

It could be worse, you could be really young and old in mind and spirit instead, and be like a certain Sklld!* poster here, spewing garbage every day. You're pretty well off with being old in soul then.

Not that I disagree, music in anime really used to be better. Music as a whole used to be better in the past. Not all of it, obviuosly, but as far as mainstream goes, for sure.

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

So the show isn't quite right and doesn't seem to have any intended demographic and keeps shooting itself in the foot, but you liked it anyways, huh? It's janked, but it's your kind of jank! That ending does sound kind of hilarious, especially if people were totally split on their reasons for watching it - I'd much rather make the MORE ACTION people angry than the actual shoujo fans, so I guess it worked out, .

I have no real explanation for liking X. By all accounts I should post here like I did with Sailor Moon Crystal, complaining about characters narrating what's on screen, for instance. Yet, even for all its flaws, it looks really good. There's a striking atmosphere created by the use of colors and visuals that simply works, regardless of how ridiculous it might be that they're locking up the Sacred Sword (tm) in a technological sealing container that's then chained up by magical chains of chaining (also tm).

The setting is really everything they could come up with thrown together. Virtual reality computer hacking through Satsuki's powers, dreamwalkers, dreamseers, all sorts of esoteric powers ascribed to Japanese religious sects. Nothing of that should work, and it really doesn't at times, but when it does, it is great. Seiichiro and Karen, for as little of them there actually is, have an on-screen chemistry I haven't seen in a while. They just work. 

It's dark and edgy in a way that I would normally laugh at, however, the only thing that really bothered me was the *snap* change of Fuma where his personality is simply replaced by Kamui choosing sides. That kicked me out of the show and I had to take a break. The awkwardly placed flashbacks and repetitive story narration is grating, just not as bad as it was in Sailor Moon Crystal. It's on a similar level whenever it comes to the plot of the anime, but everything else is better, so it makes much less of an impression.

In the end, it's really like Jay said when he talked about Skyfall, a film I hated with a passion, by the way: The little - and sometimes big - things don't matter as much when you enjoy the overall product.

Although, much like the old geezers who think everything was better in the past, I hated every last Daniel Craig Bond so far. They might be all right action films, but there's a certain expectation I have from a Bond film, and none of them had any of that, and it's totally unrelated to him being blonde, and totally related to him being a more grounded character in somewhat gritty action films, instead of stylish and flashy and ridiculous.

When I want to watch the Bourne Indentity, then I watch The Bourne Identity. Oh, I agreed with all the critics and the fans that the last few Brosnan Bond films weren't good, and that the newer ones with Craig are much better constructed - except for A Quantum Solace, because that's like the Into Darkness of James Bond films, but like all of Nu Trek, it ain't Bond. 

Whelp, that's become a rant.

*Explanation spoiler:

Spoiler

there's an i missing (well, duh), and I guess... we need a better code name. Any suggestions? I already came up with the other two.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

20 minutes ago, majestic said:

Minor warning, episode 13 is a clip show, but it's not really skippable, otherwise you'll miss important thematic points (which you most likely won't notice until later, but still...). It's also pretty good for a clip show.

God damn it. 

[majestic]

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

God damn it. 

I dunno man, perhaps you should drop it. It's not like anyone's forcing you to watch it. Unlike @Bartimaeus who was forced by his watching partner and me simply because I tried it. I get the feeling you don't see anything redeeming in it.

Up until the beginning of the Akio Ohtori arc I was enjoying it well enough. Kinda lost me there. Might really be better on a rewatch, with the benefit of improved understanding.

Hm.

edit:

K-On! just had a Christmas themed episode where it really went off the rails. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy watching it, and it was just the one episode so far and it was quite funny for the most part, until it suddenly became really, really strange. It's like having a few loose marbles is a job requirement for anime directors.

edit 2:

Spoiler, as an explanation:
 

Spoiler

So far the series was, while the girls'* baseline characterization is Usagi and Minako at their worst cray cray, which makes for some funny hijinks but is at times kind of exhausting to watch, pretty tame compared to the usual nonsense (in terms of being totally disconnected from reality, or feeling ungrounded) that often accompanied Love Live! It still didn't dip into overt fanservice-territory, but the girls had a Christmas party for their light music club, and their teacher who is their advisory member apparently had a, uhm, hiccup with her boyfriend, so she shows up at Yui's home, uninvited.

Where she then proceeds to sing the most horrible rendition of Jingle Bells ever, pulls Mio's pants off (just without fanservice, because Mio is never seen in her underwear) and forces Yui to wear a skimpy Santa costume. That Mio later has to wear for a really short time as a dare while playing games. Because she's shy**.

What the hell? Once that part of the party is over it goes back to being "normal", and I have no idea what that was.

Or, to quote the characters: Nande desu ka?

Yeah, why? Really, why?

*Well, actually, just Ritsu and Yui. The other two aren't so bad, Mio's breaking down and hiding somewhere whenever someone mentions blood or scary things aside. See, that was super cute in Cardcaptor Sakura, but for 16 year old girls, that's a wee bit silly.

**That scene was actually nice, it only lasts for a couple of seconds, she peeks around the corner and then runs off, but the other girls remark that she's trying to get over her problems. It's really just the teacher insanity that's dragging it down.

Guess that's the problem when your baseline approach is hyperactive already, when you want to show something silly and over the top, it really needs to be way, way over the top, huh?

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

21 minutes ago, majestic said:

I dunno man, perhaps you should drop it. It's not like anyone's forcing you to watch it.

I actually like the show, I just dislike clip shows.

[majestic]

1 minute ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I actually like the show, I just dislike clip shows.

Ah, okay, got the wrong impression then, never mind.

edit:

Because of the character complaints and the character art style, I mean.

Edited August 30, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 minutes ago, majestic said:

Ah, okay, got the wrong impression then, never mind.

edit:

Because of the character complaints and the character art style, I mean.

It's harder to explain what I like than what I don't. Like I can't tell you why I like Feministo DIO but I can tell you that Anthy is more of an object than a character. 

[majestic]

11 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

It's harder to explain what I like than what I don't. Like I can't tell you why I like Feministo DIO but I can tell you that Anthy is more of an object than a character. 

Yes, she is. I mean, she really is that, in terms of the narrative, at this point. An object to be won in duels, but you could already see that she's not just that by the way she sat at the table with DIO after he won her.

Or is that in episode 12 and you haven't seen that yet? I'm spoilering the rest because I really don't know what was in 11 and 12:
 

Spoiler

Anyway, it's really subtle, but Utena is definitely having an effect on Madame Doormat.

The biggest problem with these characters is that you don't have any that are meant to be likable, with the exception of Wakaba maybe, and she's a side character. Juri to a degree, because she doesn't do anything terrible, at least, but she's still in it for the duelling.

On the one hand you have these people who want to own Himemiya, and on the other hand you have Utena who, while having honorable intentions in trying to defend her, ultimately is just as selfish as the others and does that because it makes her feel good and princely. That's what Anthy's interactions with her were supposed to convey, after Utena notices just how distant Anthy now is, and Dio flat out throws it in her face that Anthy's behaviour was just a reflection of her own desires.

Well...

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Yes, she is. I mean, she really is that, in terms of the narrative, at this point. An object to be won in duels, but you could already see that she's not just that by the way she sat at the table with DIO after he won her.

Or is that in episode 12 and you haven't seen that yet? I'm spoilering the rest because I really don't know what was in 11 and 12:

I just finished episode 12. It's clear she preferred Utena to DIO, but even still she never does anything to get what she wants. Her sole purpose is to get won in duels and slapped. That just doesn't make a likeable or interesting character to me. Maybe they'll pull it out in the clip show or Black Rose saga, but right now the shadow girls are more interesting than Anthy.

[Bartimaeus]

7 hours ago, majestic said:

That can't be because Juri is the best in everything. The most likeable, the only character with a normal, relatable story arc and of course her voice is like the smooth feeling of silk against my ears.

I kind of forgot about Juri. Juri's alright...but she's no crazypants Nanami, .

4 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

but right now the shadow girls are more interesting than Anthy

Okay, actually, the shadow play girls is the best character in Utena.

7 hours ago, majestic said:

Unlike @Bartimaeus who was forced by his watching partner and me simply because I tried it.

To be fair, it was my idea, and while I didn't love the show, I liked the first half of it well enough. The wheels just kind of started to fall after that when they started sacrificing literally just about everything for the weird message it was trying to convey.

8 hours ago, majestic said:

It could be worse, you could be really young and old in mind and spirit instead, and be like a certain Sklld!* poster here, spewing garbage every day. You're pretty well off with being old in soul then.

Skoop da Whoop would be my suggestion.

8 hours ago, majestic said:

In the end, it's really like Jay said when he talked about Skyfall, a film I hated with a passion, by the way: The little - and sometimes big - things don't matter as much when you enjoy the overall product.

Although, much like the old geezers who think everything was better in the past, I hated every last Daniel Craig Bond so far. They might be all right action films, but there's a certain expectation I have from a Bond film, and none of them had any of that, and it's totally unrelated to him being blonde, and totally related to him being a more grounded character in somewhat gritty action films, instead of stylish and flashy and ridiculous.

When I want to watch the Bourne Indentity, then I watch The Bourne Identity. Oh, I agreed with all the critics and the fans that the last few Brosnan Bond films weren't good, and that the newer ones with Craig are much better constructed - except for A Quantum Solace, because that's like the Into Darkness of James Bond films, but like all of Nu Trek, it ain't Bond. 

And in the end, that's what matters. Job...okay-ly done, X, .

No real comment re: James Bond - I don't really like either the old ones OR the new ones, so I avoid them, . Glad K-On is going a bit better (even with the weirder episode) than Love Live! I did semi-recommend it based off of nothing, after all!

[Bartimaeus]

More Devilman Crybaby. So what I'm going to do is just start skipping the crap that I don't care about or just doesn't work for me. I don't need to see a lot of this to get the general idea.

.

.

.

Wow, and just like that, the show's suddenly over! Good times were had by all. I can't believe the thing thinged as much as it did - what a set of truly remarkable developments.

Spoiler

Knowing Asuka is literally Satan makes him a lot more likeable to me. They should've told me that right away.

why the hell did they animate his face this way, good lord

It's difficult to notice fan service when you're watching at 2-3x speed, or so I've observed. Well, actually, when you're reading the subtitles at this speed, it's difficult to notice anything, really. That dude doing his rap to whatsherface-not-Miki-but-actually-Miki was truly a test of my reading skills.

Everyone seems to accept that Akira just looks like a completely different person at this point. Maybe not his parents, though? ...Bad timing on my part, since it seems like his dad, at the very least, just bit it. Oh, so did his mom. Well, so much for that.

"I don't know anything about parents. It's just a fact." Oh c'mon, God is sort of like your dad. ...Well, maybe not, I'm not sure. He likes to pull his camcorder out like Tomoyo randomly - another point for his likeability!

 

[majestic]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I kind of forgot about Juri. Juri's alright...but she's no crazypants Nanami, .

Poor Juri's fate, always forgotten. Ah, well... 

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Skoop da Whoop would be my suggestion.

That's a mouthful. How about Dumbo?

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

And in the end, that's what matters. Job...okay-ly done, X, .

No real comment re: James Bond - I don't really like either the old ones OR the new ones, so I avoid them, . Glad K-On is going a bit better (even with the weirder episode) than Love Live! I did semi-recommend it based off of nothing, after all!

I know, we talked about Bond before, exactly when talking about the little things that aren't problematic until they are. Mostly because Jay liked Skyfall. Well, nobody's perfect.

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

More Devilman Crybaby. So what I'm going to do is just start skipping the crap that I don't care about or just doesn't work for me. I don't need to see a lot of this to get the general idea.

.

.

.

Wow, and just like that, the show's suddenly over!

Had a good laugh now.  

K-On!... now that I'm halfway through the first season, here are some random observations:

I'm laughing a lot, which is a good sign for a slice of life comedy, but it's more than that, you have these random 4 girls that meet each other (except Mio and Ritsu who have been friends for longer) through a highschool extracurricular activity club and slowly become friends. They're actually effecting each other in a nice way. Like Mio becoming more confident and even agreeing to sing, Yui becoming less of a person who is quick to be interested in something and then just giving up on it before even trying, while Tsumugi (yeah, no wonder everyone calls her Mugi), the obligaroty rich girl of the group notices for the first time how it is to have to save up and work for something.

When Yui wants to buy a guitar, she's taking a ten month advance on her allowance from her mother, and still can't afford it. They all take a part time job to earn money for Yui, even Tsumugi. Yui then decides to buy a cheaper guitar, not the Gibson Les Paul she wants. She does get the Gibson in the end because, in typical comedy "happenstance" Tsumugi's father just happens to be the music store's owner, and the manager gives her an 80% discount on the guitar after Mugi learns what haggling is and just walks up to the poor manager saying she wants a discount on a guitar.  

Ritsu even does something next to absolutely nothing with her life for the first time, and her Minakoish tendencies (she's reall liberally hamming it up even more than Yui, forgets things, doesn't care about important things, doesn't apply any effort but is shown to be pretty good at school life when she does, etc.) are curbed a little. 

Insofar it's pretty good. If season two really becomes a little more serious, it could be legitimately great. Assuming they drop the teacher out of it at some point, or tone her down by like two Minako's and half a Rei. Really. 

Still, in terms of striking a balance between funny and serious and characters that really go well together, the gold standard is still Sailor Moon. Well, and CCS, but yeah, that's mostly cute and funny, not funny and serious in almost perfect balance. 

Pity about the borderline psychotic character presentation. And the waste of the English voice talent. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

5 hours ago, majestic said:

Insofar it's pretty good. If season two really becomes a little more serious, it could be legitimately great. Assuming they drop the teacher out of it at some point, or tone her down by like two Minako's and half a Rei. Really. 

Now that you mention it, there should've been a cloning episode in Sailor Moon...

5 hours ago, majestic said:

Pity about the borderline psychotic character presentation.

Wait, what? I thought they'd been fine outside of that weird episode with the teacher, .

5 hours ago, majestic said:

That's a mouthful. How about Dumbo?

It'd be unfair to Dumbo, plus you don't want to create any unnecessary negative associations if you don't have to.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Now that you mention it, there should've been a cloning episode in Sailor Moon...

There's the episode in season one with the fake Sailor Moon when Venus finally shows up, but otherwise... seems like a missed opportunity all right.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

It'd be unfair to Dumbo, plus you don't want to create any unnecessary negative associations if you don't have to.

While that CGI travesty doesn't deserve anything else, I guess you're right, there's still the old one. Skoop it is then. Or maybe Skoopie.

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

Wait, what? I thought they'd been fine outside of that weird episode with the teacher, .

Yes, they are. Kind of. I mean, that's fine. Mostly. I actually like K-On!, I just meant it's not easy to recommend based on just how the characters are... presented? It's a combination of being nuts, voice acting and the animation (that includes the art style).

There's the situation when Ritsu finds out that their teacher was in the Keion club herself, and was the guitarist and vocalist of the group, with neon pink hair and half a death growl, and they're all sort of surprised the otherwise reserved and polite teacher has a past like that.

Ritsu then proceeds to immediately blackmail her with it and starts calling her Sawa-chan (well, what a Japanese diss for a teacher). That's "normal" for Ritsu, and Yui isn't much better, as such when you want to show that the teacher's a bit unhinged, they needed her to get full scale psychotic for it.

Ah, but why talk about it, here, have a look:

Well, spoilers, obviously. Well, if you find the clips funny and not "gouge your eyes and ears out" cringe, then you might actually kinda like it, at least from only having seen half the first season.

Yeah, and THIS is what happens when you turn on the English audio track:

Darker brown haired girl (Yui) is Stephanie Sheh, just in case that's not entirely discernable from the absolutely wonky way she delivery her lines. Imagine Usagi sounding like that all the time. Getting Madoka flashbacks here? Because I do. I mean, I watched the Madoka movies with the English dub, after all.

Edited August 31, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

13 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Okay, actually, the shadow play girls is the best character in Utena.

Chu-Chu is the only one who's not an **** though. 

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

More Devilman Crybaby. So what I'm going to do is just start skipping the crap that I don't care about or just doesn't work for me. I don't need to see a lot of this to get the general idea.

.

.

.

Wow, and just like that, the show's suddenly over! Good times were had by all. I can't believe the thing thinged as much as it did - what a set of truly remarkable developments.

7 hours ago, majestic said:

That's a mouthful. How about Dumbo?

Stanky.

[Bartimaeus]

50 minutes ago, majestic said:

Well, if you find the clips funny and not "gouge your eyes and ears out" cringe, then you might actually kinda like it, at least from only having seen half the first season.

Yeah, and THIS is what happens when you turn on the English audio track:

Madoka's English is still another step below that, but yes, bordering on unwatchable from just that one English clip. And you can tell it's Viz's Usagi, but the voice direction is just...yeah. Voice direction in anime and especially English dubbing needs some heavy re-thinking...

38 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Chu-Chu is the only one who's not an **** though. 

He's about as weird, uncomfortable, and inexplicable as most other characters. Bonus points that he's a stupid animal sidekick pet thing, which I generally have an irrational hatred for.

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Well, if you find the clips funny and not "gouge your eyes and ears out" cringe

Why not both?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

He's about as weird, uncomfortable, and inexplicable as most other characters. Bonus points that he's a stupid animal sidekick pet thing, which I generally have an irrational hatred for.

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

He's about as weird, uncomfortable, and inexplicable as most other characters. Bonus points that he's a stupid animal sidekick pet thing, which I generally have an irrational hatred for.

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Madoka's English is still another step below that, but yes, bordering on unwatchable from just that one English clip. And you can tell it's Viz's Usagi, but the voice direction is just...yeah. Voice direction in anime and especially English dubbing needs some heavy re-thinking...

I don't mind the hammy theatrics in Japanese (but it's not winning me over, either), but that English dub sounds really bad for me. The only thing that made Madoka worse for me (as non-native, anyway) was Madoka's piercing, shrill voice. Which wasn't much better in the original either, so that's appropriate casting, just with... worse direction, I guess. I'd like K-On! more if they would just talk normally and only Shatner it up every now and then.

Or keep it limited to one character that's not on screen all the time. Kind of like Nanami.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

He's about as weird, uncomfortable, and inexplicable as most other characters. Bonus points that he's a stupid animal sidekick pet thing, which I generally have an irrational hatred for.

You're just saying that because he starts trolling Nanami.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Why not both?

Well, in that case you'll need to gauge if the funny outweighs the gouging or not. At least you didn't immediately swoon and start watching, because that would have made me like:

Heh.

edit:

The girls are now in second grade, and Mio gets transferred to a different class. Well, that's not going to go well for her. Poor Mio.

edit 2:

One of the first years joins the Keion club. She comes to the club meeting in the music room, expecting them to practice and all that jazz, and the girls are doing the usual, sitting around, goofing off, drinking tea and eating cake that Tsumugi always brings with her. The new girl is completely flustered and thinks they'll get chewed out when Sawako comes in. She just sits down and orders tea with milk.

It's funny how quickly they managed to establish funny running jokes in the series.

Still not really into the character art, but it beats Girls' Last Tour in looks, at least.

edit 3:

There we go with the insanity again. Poor new girl thinks it's a test to see if she's interested in playing, starts practicing on her own and Sawako flies off her handle, yelling at her that she's making noise while she's drinking tea. New girl starts to cry over that, and Ritsu just calls her a moron. Good job.

Well new girl is called Azusa, but everyone calls er Azu-nyan (i.e. Azu-Meow) because Sawako forced her to wear cat ears. Yeah. Really. Tone this down a notch and it would be really great. So it's just mostly funny and good when its good. Ah well, can't have everything. Still beats Magic User's Club.

Edited August 31, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Utena episode 13 - The Clip Show

Did I really need to watch this? I don't think so, what new stuff I did get wasn't much.

[majestic]

4 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Utena episode 13 - The Clip Show

Did I really need to watch this? I don't think so, what new stuff I did get wasn't much.

I might misremember from sort of binging from this point to keep up but didn’t the shadow girls do something important in this one? 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

18 minutes ago, majestic said:

I might misremember from sort of binging from this point to keep up but didn’t the shadow girls do something important in this one? 

They flew off in a spaceship.

[Bartimaeus]

6 hours ago, Sarex said:

I don't know what this thing is except that he looks like a kinda freaky Kerberos (Cardcaptor) rip-off. Apparently it's something called Kon from Bleach. That's all I needed to find out to find out that I didn't need to find out any more, .

7 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Iggy was fine. I mean, he was a little weird himself, but intentionally so in typical bizarre JoJo style, so it's fine.

6 hours ago, majestic said:

The only thing that made Madoka worse for me (as non-native, anyway) was Madoka's piercing, shrill voice.

In addition to that, the other thing that puts Madoka another step below for me was the fact that characters (especially Madoka herself) were like...being dictated to be borderline monotone? Combine that with the incredibly phony and artificial-sounding voices they were all using and it was all just very unpleasant and unnatural-sounding.

6 hours ago, majestic said:

You're just saying that because he starts trolling Nanami.

Don't even remember that, to be honest. Just remember a lot of random cuts to what he was doing or expressions he was making smack-dab in the middle of scenes that were jarring in of themselves but even more so because he was being weird or uncomfortable.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

15 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Iggy was fine. I mean, he was a little weird himself, but intentionally so in typical bizarre JoJo style, so it's fine.

What about Pet Shop though? DIO's stupid animal sidekick pet thing was....something else entirely. Or did Pet Shop get cut from the OVA?

[Bartimaeus]

99% certain Pet Shop didn't appear in the OVA. Sorry pal, .

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Sounds like the OVA dropped a lot of stuff. Probably for the best, Pet Shop was...unsettling.

Anyways Utena 14-16. Two duels and a cow metamorphosis.