Questions about a Shifter Tank

[Boeroer]

I actually never imported any items with a character myself.  I mean for testing purposes, yes - but nor for a real playthrough.

 

[Elric Galad]

53 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, I kinda assumed 2 as average value.

All that with 0 recovery malus from armor which is often overlooked when talking about dmg output.  

 

Spiritshift armor is indeed the best feat of Spiritshift.

[Not So Clever Hound]

18 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Spiritshift armor is indeed the best feat of Spiritshift.

That's true overall but Cat Flurry is also VERY good if you're willing to prolong with WoD. On a Sorcerer it's potentially better than Spiritshift Armor.

[Elric Galad]

37 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

That's true overall but Cat Flurry is also VERY good if you're willing to prolong with WoD. On a Sorcerer it's potentially better than Spiritshift Armor.

Not that much considering DAoM.

If you're willing to use WoD, there are far more broken things to do with it.

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Not that much considering DAoM.

If you're willing to use WoD, there are far more broken things to do with it.

Fleet Feet + Cat Flurry prolonged by WoD is significantly better than DAoM.

You can use Fleet Feet + Cat Flurry in zero-recovery armor to fast cast all the other more broken things that can be prolonged with WoD, it's not like they're mutually exclusive .

Edited August 10, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Elric Galad]

3 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Fleet Feet + Cat Flurry prolonged by WoD is significantly better than DAoM.

You can use Fleet Feet + Cat Flurry in zero-recovery armor to fast cast all the other more broken things that can be prolonged with WoD, it's not like they're mutually exclusive .

This is one my question to myself : how much better for defense is Spiritshift armor compared to a robe AND a shield (preferrably small) for casting ?

(If you're attacking, then Spiritshift armor is overall better because dual wield is better than S&B.)

Note : stag all defenses bonus doesn't stack with similar bonus. It is considered as active.

Anyway, you can keep cat flurry after turning back to normal, so...

[Not So Clever Hound]

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

how much better for defense is Spiritshift armor compared to a robe AND a shield (preferrably small) for casting ?

IMHO for a pure caster that can buff like crazy, Armor Rating becomes proportionally less important than other defenses/attack avoidance - but my perception comes from a lot of solo play where you focus fire from all enemies - you can't rely on AR + Healing to stay alive, you have to avoid attacks or get only grazes. So on PotD Upscaled, I typically see Gladiator Sword + Lethandria's Devotion with modal (later with Duskfall/Drawing Parry if using WoD) as making more impact on the overall survivability of a caster than AR (which can still be boosted anyway by several means). Unless I'm playing a Sorcerer  where I can cast things like Relentless Storm very fast in Spiritshift Cat form as an "active" defense (perma-stun festival).
 

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Anyway, you can keep cat flurry after turning back to normal, so...

Well if you use WoD, both your Spiritshift and Cat Flurry duration will get prolonged so you will keep both  unless I guess if you activate flurry right at the end of spiritshift duration, go back to Kith form, then use WoD...

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Note : stag all defenses bonus doesn't stack with similar bonus. It is considered as active.

Yeah, that sucks!  

[Elric Galad]

42 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Well if you use WoD, both your Spiritshift and Cat Flurry duration will get prolonged so you will keep both  unless I guess if you activate flurry right at the end of spiritshift duration, go back to Kith form, then use WoD...

You know that Spiritshift is a modal that you can deactivate when you want, right ? So you can activate, use Flurry, deactive (a few seconds later, one cannot activate/deactivate a modal instantly) and you'll have flurry in human form.

That's why I usually say that Shifter has literraly no real drawback.

[Not So Clever Hound]

14 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

You know that Spiritshift is a modal that you can deactivate when you want, right ?

Right! I was still stuck thinking about my recent playthrough with Lifegiver/Bloodmage when in any case you DON'T want to turn Spiritshift off because you'll incur the steep penalty to Rejuvenation PL. My bad, I should have had another cup of coffee before writing... you're absolutely right for Shifter.

[Manu22]

51 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

You know that Spiritshift is a modal that you can deactivate when you want, right ? So you can activate, use Flurry, deactive (a few seconds later, one cannot activate/deactivate a modal instantly) and you'll have flurry in human form.

That's why I usually say that Shifter has literraly no real drawback.

Well, now you renewed my interest in continue using the Sorcerer.

I was about to give up on him, but I have a new perspective now…

[Manu22]

I played a bit more with the Shifter Bloodmage.

I agree with @Boeroer that he misses more martial abilities, but in the end of the day he is with more pros than cons.

It is a very well balanced build, good healing, and offer me the flexibility to choose how I want to deal with the encounters.

Question: Spirit Shiels stacks with Woodskin?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Manu22

[Not So Clever Hound]

34 minutes ago, Manu22 said:

It is a very well balanced build, good healing, and offer me the flexibility to choose how I want to deal with the encounters.

Cool! Sorcerer is amazing .

35 minutes ago, Manu22 said:

Question: Spirit Shiels stacks with Woodskin?

Nope. Even if one boosts generic AR and one specific types of AR - it's still the same general effect they don't stack. It's different from stacking +All Defenses and + Deflection for example, which are at the core 2 different buffs.

 

[Manu22]

Hello. 
I gave a break on the solo run and will try go with the party for now.

I did an Unbroken/Shifter because the engagement bonus from the fighter (Unbroken + Stance), and this is the stats:

MIG 5.  
CON 19. 
DEX 10. 
PER 15. 
INT 20. 
RES 21.

 

Is a pure tank, but able to cast some buffs/debuffs with the Druid before shift. What do you think about it?

[Manu22]

Some questions:

The Animal form doesn’t have good defenses, is worth I max resolve it is better if I put more points into MIG?

Since the Fighter has armored grace and is able to reduce the armor recovery time, isn’t wasted the animal form? I mean, there is no advantage in take this combination ? Paladins could be a better choice due to his increased AR like @Boeroer said, but they can’t engage enemies enough to be a main tank.

[Boeroer]

11 hours ago, Manu22 said:

Some questions:

The Animal form doesn’t have good defenses, is worth I max resolve it is better if I put more points into MIG?

Since the Fighter has armored grace and is able to reduce the armor recovery time, isn’t wasted the animal form? I mean, there is no advantage in take this combination ? Paladins could be a better choice due to his increased AR like @Boeroer said, but they can’t engage enemies enough to be a main tank.

The shifted form has the same defenses as the druid minus bonuses from weapon and/or shield. If you go for deflection items and other deflection buffs then investing in Resolve can be worth it. If not I would focus on AR and healing. 

Armored Grace does nothing while shifted. For a shifter who can be shifted way longer than a normal druid I consider it a waste of an ability point indeed. At least in a party. May be different when going solo (never played a shifter solo besides doing controlled test fights with it).

Raising engagement on a Paladin/Shifter is indeed difficult since you can't use special weapons or armor which have engagement bonuses. If you initiate combat with the shifter it's often not a problem because enemies will first swarm the tank and not let go too soon (plenty of time to use CC) , but in fights which start without you being able to be stealthed it can be a problem (e.g. boarding fights or fights after scripted interactions).

 

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

15 hours ago, Manu22 said:

I did an Unbroken/Shifter because the engagement bonus from the fighter (Unbroken + Stance), and this is the stats:

MIG 5.  
CON 19. 
DEX 10. 
PER 15. 
INT 20. 
RES 21.

Hey - I think if you have any kind of healing going on (and you have and should ) dumping MIG over CON isn't optimal. Keep a decent CON and invest in MIG for extra healing (and DMG of course) that is a lot more helpful for overall survivability.

Maybe if you're looking to increase engagement, a Shifter/Barb multi would be nice over Fighter? Surely he'll do much less self-healing on his own but if you set up healing with other toons, he could tank, damage and CC quite a bit.

[Manu22]

Thanks for the good answers as always. 
 

The fighter was my first choice mostly because the engagement slots, I am not used to tank in a group an I was afraid of letting go the enemies, the engagement system is a bit confuse to me. I never thought about a barb to do a tank, I will take a look at it. Another class that I am considering is a Stalker.

[Not So Clever Hound]

6 hours ago, Manu22 said:

The fighter was my first choice mostly because the engagement slots, I am not used to tank in a group an I was afraid of letting go the enemies, the engagement system is a bit confuse to me.

Yeah it's definitely not the most straight-forward mechanic .

If you're looking for engagement slots without weapon/shield bonuses, look at Thick Skinned passive and Barbaric Shout active abilities from the Barbie. Between the two, you can get +4 engagement slots. Then, you need to plan your survival against 5+ melee enemies pounding at you .

Edited August 16, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Manu22]

I will try a Furyshaper/Shifter. 

I guess will be better low a bit RES instead CON to put more points into MIG. DEX with the ward and frenzy buffs I guess won’t be a problem.

[dgray62]

I think that a barb shifter is a great combo; they fit together very well thematically. You'll have great attack speed and good healing and CC. Shifter gets good DoT spells automatically that you'll definitely want to use. Make sure that you pick up Infestation of Maggots and Bloody Slaughter at PL 3. It's nice when the damage ticks go up right when the foes' health gets low.

[Manu22]

Played a bit with this Tempest, and I don’t know what I think for sure.

It’s a good build, cleared the digsite without problem, but I think he can’t be a main tank.  Tomorrow I will play more and see how it performs.

[dgray62]

On 8/16/2021 at 8:06 PM, Manu22 said:

It’s a good build, cleared the digsite without problem, but I think he can’t be a main tank.  Tomorrow I will play more and see how it performs.

It can be tanky enough I think. You can get lots of engagement from the barb side, healing from the druid side, and plenty of AR from both sides. Not the tankiest of builds, but it can hold its own.