new player with some questions on builds

[demon72]

After playing Icewind Dale II and all parts of BG several year ago - I'm in the mood for a classic RPG again...

...but I have just noticed that pretty much everything has changed in the meantime.

 

Just want to make one run on Pillars I on PotD and get most possible out of this.

Therefore I don't want to spend to much time on creating new builds and would prefer to just stay with some great builds from this forum.

 

Therefore a few questions:

1. is it possible to have both - a party of 5 or 6 self-created characters and just let the pre-designed companions jump-in for their side-quests? Or will you loose to much XP that way?

2. does "Counselor Ploi" will work as main character? Means: are the stats good enough to pass all important checks?

3. as most parties seems to be quite small - how big is the disadvantage to play a full party?

4. if I go with Counselor Ploi as main - what would be the recommendation for the rest?

• if there is a good build, I would prefer a dual-wielding rogue (and eventually even a 2nd one)
• a cleric needs to be in every party for me...
• ...same for a wizard (caster or speöösword - whatever the actual meta says)
• I don't like monks - as they seem to be just for kids, watching to much kong-fu movies (and therefore designers make them OP) 
• is there a good class for a godlike, without too many disadvantages not beeing able to wear a helmet?
• not having an idea how they need to be played, I'm open for the "new" classes Cypher and Chanter

any advice?

any combination that should be avoided, as they would need the same critical items?

[Desmodeus]

1. Yes it is possible. You can make up to 8 mercenaries without mods(and up to 99 with). Amount of recruted characters doesn't metter, however one that sit in the keep get less xp. But game has too much content so they all will hit lvl 20 near the end anyway. As for quest you can totally do that, only Aloth quest can be permanently missed IIRC. Only thing is some quest have somewhat chaotic progression so you might want to check wiki for them. Additionally you will miss an experience of Durance

2. Should work assuming you are ok with using some stat boosting item. For dialogs you would probably want more lore and less survival(maybe leave survival at 9 and lore as much as possible). Orlan would have a bit more dialogs but most orlan dialogs comes from fact that people love to **** on orlans so ymmv

3. What do you mean most parties? Afaik most players run full party of 6 characters. Unless they go solo

4. All classes are very flexible so you can make pretty much any composition. Cleric is almost broken in first game so get it for sure. Mage can be awesome CC or do quite some damage with Kalakoth minor blight summoned weapon or with Spirit lance. I like chanter in party. Chanter is pretty much Neverwinter Nine 2 bard. He even comes with his own version of Song of Requiem called Dragon Thrashed. Cipher is kinda similar to arcane trickster from dnd in term of its position. Kinda rogue, kinda caster hybrid. Barbarian is pretty cool at clearing out enemies. Monk btw is much much less kung-fu master here. He get no penalties for wearing armor(and no bonuses for running nude), he get unarmed damage bonus but all his skills work with weapon as well. So monk in plate with shield and sword is valid. So is the monk with a giant flaming sword

Godlikes can be any class. THere isn't that many good pieces of headgear in game, so most likely you will have to equip someone by "what I have that no one want" principal anyway. Might as well have 1 godlike in party. Or two

 

[Boeroer]

Lvl 16 is the max (20 is Deadfire) - but yeah.

I don't recommend Rogues a lot, especially not two of them. They are really good at the beginning - but on PotD their "power curve" doesn't climb very steeply; mainly because their great single target damage isn't that useful with the increased number of high-hp enemies later on. One is cool, but two... not for me. If you need two of any class I would bring two Priests or two Chanters.

Priest has a very big impact on the performance of your party. Especially the combination of Inspiring Radiance + Devotions for the Faithful. Note that Inspiring Radiance's ACC bonus stacks with everything, even itself - that's why bringing multiple Priests can make a big difference.

Chanters play really slow (which isn't bad per se - but it can be detrimental to the performance of the party if the rest of your party members are build towards fast combat and max offense). But Chanters can be really good if you give them some time to develop. Especially from lvl 9 on they are absolutely devastating if you pick "The Dragon Thrashed" chant. It stacks with itself, too - so you can only run that chant and be happy with it. That's also why bringing more than one Chanter can be great: Dragon Thrashed phrases all overlaps ech other, stack their damage and will thus deal very good AOE damage - without actually having to do anything except standing there. It even works when a Priest uses the spell Withdraw on the Chanter. That's like creating an indestructable death totem on the battlefield. Note that Dragon Thrased only comes at lvl 9, so a bit late(ish). But before that you can summon a Phantom or use White Worms which both can be very powerful, too.

Counselor Ploi is build for sturdyness (not as the only tanking guy - but can take some beating), great support and good coverage of dialogue options. Imo it's a good pick for the MC - if you like Paladins to begin with. He's not a dps machine obviously - but he can make other party members very effective by raising their accuracy into the sky. Dragons are usually a lot easier with Counselor Ploi because it's easy to hard-CC the dragon when you have your accuracy buffed up like crazy. Stacks with the Priest's ACC boosts, too. The Mind Control options are another thing that is nice to have. 

Wizards and Druids: to me they come right after Priest. All casters start more slowly than let's say Fighter, Monks and Rogues but their power curve is much steeper imo.

Imo Monk is the best/most fun martial class. Is good right from the start and stays good. Barb is even more fun for me personally, but beginners often toss Barbs aside because they are a bit weak in the early game. But they can become real AoE killing machines later.  

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Boeroer

[demon72]

New questions:

...thanks for all that infos!

1. does Ploi has more min-max potential or is the posted build already the optimum?

2. which stat would need some boosting from items? (as long as I don't miss good items or content through skill checks I'm fine)

3. would you recommend to invest first in (Ploi): lore or balanced in both lore and survival?

4. is there a good dual-wielding rogue build for the actual meta (as it seems that the best rogue-builds go for reposte meanwhile) and the "fast assasin"-build seems to get questioned much?

 

What would be a good party (and which builds would be recommended)

1. Paldin ("Ploi")

2. Barb (maybe "The Leech") and / or Fighter (?)

3. Cleric (maybe "Support Priest"-build?)

4. Wizard (?)

5. Rogue (?) and / or Cypher (?)

6. Chanter (?) or Druid (?) if there is still a place left

Edited February 14, 2021 by demon72

[demon72]

...how long does any content of a new forum member needs to be approved by a moderator?!

This slows communication really down, especially as this seems to take several hours each time?

[Desmodeus]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

I don't recommend Rogues a lot, especially not two of them. They are really good at the beginning - but on PotD their "power curve" doesn't climb very steeply; mainly because their great single target damage isn't that useful with the increased number of high-hp enemies later on. One is cool, but two... not for me. If you need two of any class I would bring two Priests or two Chanters.

But lets agree, arquebus + devastating blow + enabled sneak attack + deathblows is fun

Since compared to old DnD fames you do not need rogue to do rogue duties and as I understood for you rogue is light dual wielder - cipher can pull this role of quite well. Or priest of skaen, yeah xD

[demon72]

as it always take much time, until my posts get approved by a moderator, please have a look at my post above.

 

And there is a maximum number of 3 posts per day?!!

Is it actually the purpose of this forum to prevent the exchange of information in the best possible way?!

 

Seems that the only option is, to edit previous posts to add further questions meanwhile - please have a look.

Edited February 14, 2021 by demon72

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, demon72 said:

...how long does any content of a new forum member needs to be approved by a moderator?!

This slows communication really down, especially as this seems to take several hours each time?

I believe you'll be free after 5 approved posts.

The moderator's seal of approval is necessary to keep the bots out. You can thank those asshats who script and deploy them

1 hour ago, demon72 said:

1. does Ploi have more min-max potential or is the posted build already the optimum?

I think it's fine as is. You can min-max more (like dumping DEX or CON even further) but a Paladin usually needs a fair amount of solid attributes. Lso it's not D&D where attributes have a high impact. A few points hardly make any difference in the long run. 

2 hours ago, demon72 said:

4. is there a good dual-wielding rogue build for the actual meta (as it seems that the best rogue-builds go for reposte meanwhile) and the "fast assasin"-build seems to get questioned much?

Dual hammers or dual sabres usually is the way to go. Dual sabres have the highest "dmg per strike" ratio but are not great against slash resistant enemies (since thesy only deal slash damage). You can get a sabre that deals corrde/slash damage later though which is great. Hammers will deal a bit less damage but have two types of damage (get more suitable one automatically gets applied depending on the enemies' armor). Both come with good unique weapons that don't come too late. The one handed weapon with the highest dps potential is Drawn in Spring, a dagger. But it comes very late. You can start with Rapier + Dagger though. In the very early game that might feel a bit meh, but you can aquire a very good Rapier and a good dagger quite early in the first city (Sword of Daenysis + March Steel Dagger). Both have the speed enchantment which makes them one of the best dps setups with autoattacks until you can get Drawn in Spring. 

 

2 hours ago, demon72 said:

What would be a good party (and which builds would be recommended)

1. Paldin ("Ploi")

2. Barb (maybe "The Leech") and / or Fighter (?)

3. Cleric ("Support Priest"-build?)

4. Wizard (?)

5. Rogue (?) and / or Cypher (?)

6. Chanter (?) or Druid (?) if there is still a place left

A Rogue, Cipher, Monk or Ranger would profit most from Ploi's accuracy buffing I believe - at least against the hard bosses. 
If you bring a Barb I would suggest the Cauterizer. For me it was the most fun to play and the fun starts quite early already (once you get the belt and the golves). Anotehr very straightforward but good build for Barbs is one with the great sword "Tidefall". It's wounding and draining work with the Barb's Carnage passive AoE.
The Leech is very good once you get Spelltongue, but that will take quite some time. I don't think fighters are very exciting until you reach lvl 13 (and unlock Charge which is great). A Monk will always be better then a Fighter imho.  

1 hour ago, Desmodeus said:

But lets agree, arquebus + devastating blow + enabled sneak attack + deathblows is fun

I especially despise Finishing/Devastating Blow since it's just a mighty overkill ability. The rogue builds I like are the ones that go outside the box. Like a rogue focused on spellbinding gear for example (High Accuracy, Deathblows works with spells, Depp Wounnds work with crush/pierce/slash spells). Rogues become better and better (compared to the other classes) the lower the difficulty is. The lower the enemies defenses the less important (AoE) CC , buffing and debuffing becomes and also AoE damage and the more impact the Rogue's good singel target damage becomes. 

Other high-performing single target damage dealers who bring something additonal to the table: Monk, Ranger with Persistence & dmg-focused Animal Companion, Spiritshift Druid (Boar or Cat). Perceived advantage of the Rogue: starts really strong into the game. That's why most players like Rogues at first. That and seeing high damage numbers in general.

[Desmodeus]

29 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I especially despise Finishing/Devastating Blow since it's just a mighty overkill ability.

Still it has really high numbers xD

I personally find Devastating blow a bit too much in most of cases. However during dragon hunting it is mighty good. THough I agree about scaling. I would rather have either Skaen priest with Schemer's Needle like build or cipher

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

A Monk will always be better then a Fighter imho

I dare to say anything is better then fighter but it mostly my dislike of that class talks. Fighter has great basic stats and he has good passives but that's pretty much all he has. I find him very dull to play with

[demon72]

Thanks!

1. Ploi

2. "the Cauterizer" - as I understand, it's possible to respec later to "the Leech" if I get Spelltongue?

3. Cleric - would you recommend the "support cleric"-build as I would guess that Schemers Needle wouldn't fit in that party?

4. Chanter - Chillfog ?

5. Wizard - no idea, any recommendations?

6. any recommendations?

[Boeroer]

2 minutes ago, demon72 said:

2. "the Cauterizer" - as I understand, it's possible to respec later to "the Leech" if I get Spelltongue?

Theoretically yes. But I guess you won't do it once you see Blood Thirst + Firebrand in action.

3 minutes ago, demon72 said:

3. Cleric - would you recommend the "support cleric"-build as I would guess that Schemers Needle wouldn't fit in that party?

Didn't play the "support cleric" variant so I can't say for sure. But sound solid. Only important things for good support is to have high INT and DEX and to pick Inspiring Radiance and use Devotions for the Faithful a lot. Also: use prayers!
Schemer's Needler can be played like a Priest/Rogue multiclass. I think it could be good for your party since you wanted a rogue originally. It has solid single target weapon damage but at the same time is as good as priest as any other priest. As all Priests it starts a bit squishy. But rogues are squishy as well - so no big deal.  

 

[Desmodeus]

1 minute ago, demon72 said:

2. "the Cauterizer" - as I understand, it's possible to respec later to "the Leech" if I get Spelltongue?

Cauterizer is good in itself as well. If you'll like it, you can stick with him.

2 minutes ago, demon72 said:

3. Cleric - would you recommend the "support cleric"-build as I would guess that Schemers Needle wouldn't fit in that party?

Why not? He will fit decently as cleric does not have to choose or prepare spells. So if you like him, no problems.

3 minutes ago, demon72 said:

5. Wizard - no idea, any recommendations?

I personally like this guy as for me wizard is mostly party controller though I personally would have kept CON at 10.

For 6 point I'd think about cipher. Cipher with Silver flash blunderbuss maybe? Or bow if you want powergaming way. Bonus point is that if you take Schemer priest, cipher will be able to provide him with reaper knives xD

[demon72]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Schemer's Needler can be played like a Priest/Rogue multiclass. I think it could be good for your party since you wanted a rogue originally. It has solid single target weapon damage but at the same time is as good as priest as any other priest.

Schemer's Needler (evil) AND Ploi (good) - will that work together in one party?

And would you recommend Schemer's Needler as "full" (only) cleric in a party or more as a secondary back-up?

Edited February 14, 2021 by demon72

[Boeroer]

The scaling by correct disposition will only affect you main character. If you use Ploi as MC you should stick to the fitting dialogue options of his order so you get the optimal defense bonuses. Scheemer's Needler will scale the Holy Radiance average-like because: not MC. If you take all custom build hirelings and no official companions you will not have any banter - so no problems with opposite sides of the good-evil spectrum. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Boeroer

[demon72]

14 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Scheemer's Needler will scale the Holy Radiance average-like because: not MC.

could you please explain that point?

Quote

If you take all custom build hirelings and no official companions you will not have any banter - so no problems with opposite sides of the good-evil spektrum. 

my plan was to substitute in the official companions just for their personal quests, but no idea how good this will work.

[Desmodeus]

1 hour ago, demon72 said:

could you please explain that point?

Only main character paladin or priest skill scales with reputation(unless enabled otherwise in IEmod) because it is your desposition, not everyone else. Think of that as you are going with bunch of mercenaries. THey do what they are payed for and doesn't care much about your own alignment. So unscrupulous priest of Skaen can still work for you. So other characters just get skill progression based on their level. I think each 4 levels it jump up tier or so

Also I wouldn't call Skaen evil. He is more... anarchic and rebellious if it make sence. There are few evil paths in game quests where special priest of Skaen line guide to what essentially "good" choise.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Desmodeus

[demon72]

Scheemer's Needler-build seems to have 81 stat instead of just 78?

would 14-7-18-20-15-4 be a good stat allocation or is Res to low that way?

[Boeroer]

Heh, you are right - and after all those years you're the first who niticed.  I guess I had a typo back then but I can't recall what that original stats were - but it doesn't matter much tbh. Attributes in PoE don't have a ton of impact (if we're talking about a few points only). I edited the build accordingly.

14-7-18-20-15-4 might be a tad squishy. But if you can handle the initial squishyness and babysit a bit more it will be ok. Never lead an attack woth squishies. Let them stay stealthed until your fron line has engaged all (or most) melee enemies.

[demon72]

...is there a good Cypher-build somewhere?

...if I understand everything right:

Backlash Beldam, The - is outdated

Dichotomous Souldbenders, The - are two builds? (I'm quite confused about that one)

Mr. Speedo - doesn't got that good critics

...and as there are no more builds listed and I'm far away from being competent enough to design an own build, I'm a little bit lost...

 

 

[Desmodeus]

10 minutes ago, demon72 said:

Backlash Beldam, The - is outdated

Yeah, amount of cheese in this build fall down but it is still cheesy. Its good build, but I think you already has enough melee guys

12 minutes ago, demon72 said:

Dichotomous Souldbenders, The - are two builds? (I'm quite confused about that one)

This is twin character build, yes, but they can work seperately as well. I would personally dropped novice suffering there and combined second slots into one build rearraging talents for range(I like range character, they do not suffer from bottlenecks)

14 minutes ago, demon72 said:

Mr. Speedo - doesn't got that good critics

Not very optimised, but working

[demon72]

if I understand the "cypher"-concept right, it's about dealing damage to gain focus to cast spells that way?

all CRPG I know so far, are about casting the best spells asap. so I'm a little bit curios if the cypher doesn't need to much build-up time?

 

normally I'm not such a big fan of ranged-builds - but for Cypher it seems to make sense and PoE seems to have a much bigger arsenal of ranged weapons then "normal" CRPGs...

 

Backlash Beldam, The - if Boeroer himself says, that it's outdated I am a little cautious for the time being, as I am far from being able to judge that.

 

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, demon72 said:

if I understand the "cypher"-concept right, it's about dealing damage to gain focus to cast spells that way?

Correct.

2 hours ago, demon72 said:

all CRPG I know so far, are about casting the best spells asap. so I'm a little bit curios if the cypher doesn't need to much build-up time?

 

He does need a bit of build-up time ifyou want to use the big spells. But on the plus side he can refill his spell resource (focus) al the time while other casters have limited spell uses - and he does pretty good weapon damage at the same time.

2 hours ago, demon72 said:

Backlash Beldam, The - if Boeroer himself says, that it's outdated I am a little cautious for the time being, as I am far from being able to judge that.

The core idea of that build (gaining focus from retaliation-items) does not work anymore. So the main reason to play that build is gone. 

[Desmodeus]

9 hours ago, Boeroer said:

He does need a bit of build-up time ifyou want to use the big spells.

Also if you have dual wielder in party - reaper knives

[demon72]

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

The core idea of that build (gaining focus from retaliation-items) does not work anymore. So the main reason to play that build is gone. 

If you find some time, would it be possible to update that build to the actual meta, as there is no good single-cypher-build listed?

Or is it already a good choice as it is?

EDIT: or are there any other good cypher builds somewhere, they just didn't find their way in the list?

Edited February 16, 2021 by demon72

[Desmodeus]

It is already decent choise. It just not made of cheese anymore as previously you literally did nothing and got focus. Now you have to hit someone to generate focus

But why don't you try to make some build for cipher based upon what you want in your party? We can help you with stats, races and talents and as you noticed - there is quite understandable meta spell list so spells pretty much defined for you already xD