Hit me Nary one more time

[Natures Bounty]

Hey guys,

I seem to have hit myself or one of my party members in up to three different encounters with Old Nary's Curse now. I wonder whether that was an intentional part of its mechanics or just buggy.

It's difficult for me to tell, because last time it happened was the fight with Nemnok, and the battlefield got so crowded, and there was tons of spell effects and afflictions so that I had a hard time of keeping track of everything that was going on. The combat log and the afflictions tooltip showed that my MC got hit by an empowered Eld Nary's Curse (maaaan, I hits like a truck). The previous time that happened, I saw the Curse wandering from one enemy to the other, but I ran into its way and that seemed to trigger a hit on my party member. Therefore I assume that this spell only hits your own party when you unluckily get into its way, and that this is intended by the devs although not mentioned in the spell description. But I'm not sure at all. Do you know what is going on there?

Charmed or dominated party members might get hit as well, but that is expectable given game mechanics and was not the case for any of my party members in the Nemnok fight.

[Waski]

Spell reflection 

[Boeroer]

Spell reflection: good point.

Also confusion maybe? Once the caster becomes confused Eld Nary will target friedlies with its jumps as well. 

There are a lot of Scriveners with Nemnok and they are all high level Wizards - so getting hit by Confusion or running into Arcane Reflections might happen. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Boeroer

[thelee]

be real careful about tossing around nary in that fight - nemnok can use arcane reflection at will (limited only by an AI script timer), and many of the warlocks can use it once or twice. it is highly likely you hit someone and got it bounced.

[Natures Bounty]

9 hours ago, Waski said:

Spell reflection 

Thanks, I was quite blind in that regard. Tbh I didn't even think of chanter invocations as spells. I realize that I should maybe have a look into spell reflection mechanics, what can be reflected or not. 

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Spell reflection: good point.

Also confusion maybe? Once the caster becomes confused Eld Nary will target friedlies with its jumps as well. 

There are a lot of Scriveners with Nemnok and they are all high level Wizards - so getting hit by Confusion or running into Arcane Reflections might happen. 

Also a good point, thx! I was not aware that Eld Nary can turn against me even if the casting party member gets confused after casting the invocation. I've been searching for downsides of Eld Nary, it seemed too good with the high base damage, number of jumps, high base penetration. That's quite a big disadvantage, actually.

5 hours ago, thelee said:

be real careful about tossing around nary in that fight - nemnok can use arcane reflection at will (limited only by an AI script timer), and many of the warlocks can use it once or twice. it is highly likely you hit someone and got it bounced.

The strange thing is, I cast so many spells in that fight (SC wizard, SC Priest, SC Chanter and SC Cipher), but I did not take much damage until I hit myself with Eld Nary and that was probably 45 to 60sec into the fight. I mean it seems likely that a spell reflection was the cause why it hit my party members, but still, if it was, I seems also likely that I got hit by reflected missile salvos and so on (and I'm pretty sure I would have noticed that by insta-dying ). But it is still possible, as I instantly engaged Nemnok with a SC fighter whose abilities probably don't get reflected. Or do AoE spells not get reflected because they do not directly aim at an enemy? E.g. can Minolettas missile salvos not be reflected, whereas mental binding can because it directly aims an enemy (plus has an aoe around the aimed target)?

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Natures Bounty

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, Natures Bounty said:

Thanks, I was quite blind in that regard. Tbh I didn't even think of chanter invocations as spells. I realize that I should maybe have a look into spell reflection mechanics, what can be reflected or not. 

Also a good point, thx! I was not aware that Eld Nary can turn against me even if the casting party member gets confused after casting the invocation. I've been searching for downsides of Eld Nary, it seemed too good with the high base damage, number of jumps, high base penetration. That's quite a big disadvantage, actually.

The strange thing is, I cast so many spells in that fight (SC wizard, SC Priest, SC Chanter and SC Cipher), but I did not take much damage until I hit myself with Eld Nary and that was probably 45 to 60sec into the fight. I mean it seems likely that a spell reflection was the cause why it hit my party members, but still, if it was, I seems also likely that I got hit by reflected missile salvos and so on (and I'm pretty sure I would have noticed that by insta-dying ). But it is still possible, as I instantly engaged Nemnok with a SC fighter whose abilities probably don't get reflected. Or do AoE spells not get reflected because they do not directly aim at an enemy? E.g. can Minolettas missile salvos not be reflected, whereas mental binding can because it directly aims an enemy (plus has an aoe around the aimed target)?

 

Aoe Spells don't get reflected.

[Boeroer]

If always the caster gets hit I would suspect spell reflection. If also other party members get hit I would check for confusion. 

Yes, in Deadfire most often active spell effects do change when the caster changes: if you lose Power Level while a spell is working it will drop in potency immediately. If you gain ACC while a pulsing or jumping spell is active the next pulses/jumps will have higher ACC and so on. With Confusion it's the same: a pulsing/jumping spell which is still working will immediately change from foe-only to friendly fire. 

I use that "feature" in my favor when I have a Berserker with Grave Calling and a Chanter with skeletons (can be the same char): you kill one of your skeletons which produces a foe-only chillfog, you retreat from the AoE of the Chillfog and only then trigger Berserker-Frenzy. And suddenly the Chillfog's pulses will do friendly fire, killing more of your own skeletons which will proc more Chillfog's etc. As soon as I remove confusion all the Chillfogs are foe-only again.