Priests and the Deadfire Balance Polishing Mod

[thelee]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:41 AM, Elric Galad said:

He's the god of slow destruction. Fire isn't "his stuff", but it is still about destruction after all so it's not clearly opposed to his beliefs.

to be clear, rymrgand is about entropy and decay, not destruction: thematically it seems to be all plugged into the (real-life) theory of the heat death of the universe. 

to that end, fire seems very counter to that - fire is thematically is linked to industry and creation (this theme is stronger in poe1 with abydon and magran), whereas ice is more thematically linked into everything slowly getting to a point where no more work can ever be done again. while his portfolio doesn't explicitly exclude fire, it's not a coincidence that basically everything related to rymrgand in both poe1 and poe2 and in the supplemental lore is always about ice, cold, and winter.

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, thelee said:

to be clear, rymrgand is about entropy and decay, not destruction: thematically it seems to be all plugged into the (real-life) theory of the heat death of the universe. 

to that end, fire seems very counter to that - fire is thematically is linked to industry and creation (this theme is stronger in poe1 with abydon and magran), whereas ice is more thematically linked into everything slowly getting to a point where no more work can ever be done again. while his portfolio doesn't explicitly exclude fire, it's not a coincidence that basically everything related to rymrgand in both poe1 and poe2 and in the supplemental lore is always about ice, cold, and winter.

Yep but I still feel like healing would be even further from his portfolio. Fire itself may not be very Rymrgandish, but ashes might tolerably be so. I wasn't suggesting to give his priest fire spells but that healing spells should be removed in priority (which I don't think would be good balance-wise)

Edited October 14, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

Now an additional suggestion :

If you want a mod to shine, it requires having a bit more content, especially when it comes to Priest subclasses which have been already modded a lot (but with an usual power-creeping tendancy).
What is described in this thread are the most "reasonable" changes I've seen so far. The purpose is clear but may fall under the radar.

My idea for (balanced) new content would be to add the 4 missing God subclasses : Galawain, Abydon, Hylea and Ondra.
For consistency, it should also make Rymrgand playable.

I'm not advocating for new subclasses in general, but for priest it would make so much sense !
(And to be honnest, a similar package would be great for Godlikes too, but that requires graphical models so it might be more complicated)

Edited October 15, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

I'm still not sure if Galawain has any Priests in the first place. Every time you discover some place sacred to Galawain it's always Druids hanging around and acting like Priests of Galawain. Maybe a more "modern" interpretation of Galawain could bring forth a fitting Priest subclass? 

His aspects are:

• Seeker God
• Clever Hound
• Lord of the Hunt
• Father of Monsters
• The Changeling

and his portfolio:

• Pursuit
• Discovery
• Perseverance
• The Hunt
• Assassins
• Wilderness
• Predatory Beasts

I marked the ones green of which I think they could be focused on in a more modern worship of Galawain which doesn't include or does not focus on tribal/archaic/beat/plant stuff. It sounds a lot like a Bounty Hunter Priest then.   Which would quite nice given that bounties are an integral part of PoE and Deadfire. 
But maybe also something that is more like an Explorer Priest, seeking lost secrets and knowledge, discovering mysteries, hunting for artefacts - the opposite to aspects of Wael and Ondra and no friend of the Hand Occult and Lead Key I would assume. Or even a spy! 
The spell/ability portfolio could simply cover all of those three aspects and add a bit of beast and traditioal hunting stuff for good measure - it's Galawain after all.  Taste of the Hunt seems to be a sure thing...? Most obvious Spiritual Weapon still might be the Hunting Bow, right? Too bad it's alswys only one of those.  

The rest of the missing priest subclasses are more straightforward I think. 

[Elric Galad]

10 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I'm still not sure if Galawain has any Priests in the first place. Every time you discover some place sacred to Galawain it's always Druids hanging around and acting like Priests of Galawain. Maybe a more "modern" interpretation of Galawain could bring forth a fitting Priest subclass? 

Yup, but  that's because it saved Obsidian from having to implement the subclass I guess

[bell88]

Hey @Elric Galad- thanks so much for the suggestions  I'm kind of nervous because it's my first time modding POE2... I had actually intended to add the additional priest subclasses as you suggest. Was gonna be a surprise

Very kindly, @NocturnalTrance agreed to let me use the content and assets of his/her excellent 'More Priest Subclasses' mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/159) as a basis for Abydon, Hylea and Ondra. I've made quite a few changes to them to fit my interpretation, but some (e.g. Abydon) remain similar.

I should hopefully have a first version of everything out reasonably soon. Got most of the progression table changes in place now.

For reference - I made a few additional changes to the vanilla subclasses as well. Elric, I managed to make your original suggestion work of having none of the automatic subclass spells be priest spells - which I much prefer. This is what I decided on in the end:

	Berath	Eothas	Gaun	Magran	Rymrgand	Skaen	Wael	Woedica
Lv1	Touch of Rot	Sunbeam	Blessed Harvest	Fan of Flames	Touch of Rot	Antipathetic Field	Arcame Veil	Writ of Engagement
Lv2	Necrotic Lance	Light of the Dawnstar	Vile Thorns	Combusting Wounds	Blizzard	Escape	Curse of Blackened Sight	Recall Agony
Lv3	Infestation of Maggots	Pain Block	Autumn's Decay	Ray of Fire	Spreading Plague	Pain Link	Mirrored Image	Writ of Consumption
Lv4	Noxious Burst	Rejoice Comrades!	Wicked Briars	Ironskin	Blast of Frost	Finishing Blow	Llengrath’s Displaced Image	Fealty
Lv5	Plague of Insects	Inspired Beacon	Wall of Thorns	Flame Shield	Death Ring	Shadowing Beyond	Confusion	Writ of War
Lv6	Rot skulls	Sunlance	Garden of Life	Torrent of Flame	Disintegration	Prisoners Turned on their Captors	Arkemyr’s Wondrous Torment	Gavel
Lv7	Rusted Armor	Weather the Storm	Lashing Vine	Godhammers' Shards	Entropy	Rebellion!	Gaze of the Adragan	Writ of Sorcery
Lv8	Symbol of Berath	Symbol of Eothas	Symbol of Eothas	Symbol of Magran	Symbol of Rymrgand	Symbol of Skaen	Synbol of Wael	Haunting Chains
Lv9	Hand of Berath	Light of Eothas	Pollen Patch	Magran’s Might	Call of Rymrgand	Revenge of Skaen	Blessing of Wael	Writ of Mending
	Abydon	Galawain	Hylea	Ondra		Druid	Renamed Abilities
Lv1	Flames of the White Forge	Charm Beasts	Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip		Wizard	Light of the Dawnstar	The Moon's Light
Lv2	Blade of the White Forge	Taste of the Hunt	Winter Wind	The Moon's Light		Priest	Godhammers' Shards	Minoletta's Piercing Burst
Lv3	Twin Stones	Stag's Horn	Avian Familiars	Shard of Ionni Brathr		Chanter	Rebellion!	They Slew Forth a River of Red
Lv4	Ironskin	Wild Sprint	Deleterious Alacrity	Returning Storm		Cipher	Fealty	Dominate Mind
Lv5	Calling the World's Maw	Marked for the Hunt	Cleansing Wind	Overwhelming Wave		Paladin	Gavel	Concelhaut's Crushing Doom
Lv6	Embrace the Earth Talon	Hunter's Claw	Discordant Melody	Moonwell		Rogue	Flames of the White Forge	Flames of Devotion
Lv7	Abydon's Hammer	Bow of Galawain	Avenging Storm	Relentless Storm		Fighter	Abydon's Hammer	Concelhaut's Crushing Doom
Lv8	Unbending Trunk	With Furious Vengeance!	Tornado	Symbol of Ondra		Barbarian	Bow of Galawain	Caedebald's Blackbow
Lv9	Enchanted Armoury	Panther's Leap	Eld Nary's Curse	Avenging Storm		Ranger	Discordant Melody	Amplified Wave
						Unique

Some important notes:

• Every subclasses' auto spells are now 'non-priest' spells
• We have missed out on 'Holy Meditation' and 'Salvation of Time' for Berath as a consequence (but they can always be picked during level-up).
• I wanted to try giving one class in the game access to 'Avenging Storm' at PL7 - since it opens up a lot of fun multiclassing. This is the Priest of Hylea. If people don't like - happy to change
• Same as the above for 'Bow of Galawain' at PL7 (Caedewald's Blackbow). This should open some fun multiclass options for Priests of Galawain.

Incarnates:

• Berath: Usher, Pallid Knight
• Eothas: 3 Dawnbringers
• Gaun: 3 Dawnbringers (Added this)
• Magran: Magran
• Rymrgand: Scourge
• Skaen: Effigy
• Wael: Eyes
• Woedica: Effigy (will add as a Placeholder) - any ideas for the Strangler?
• Abydon: 'Ancient Instruments of Death'
• Galawain: Aspect of Galawain
• Hylea: 'Great Wyrm Flew O'er the Mountains' (Sky Dragon)
• Ondra: 2 High Tide Monks + 1 Crest Knight

Spiritual Weapons:

• Ondra: Low Tide Fists
• Hylea: Harp of Hylea (Warbow)
• Abydon: Blade of the White Forge (may change this to a Hammer of the White Forge)
• Galawain: TBD, probably a spear
• [I'd like to change Magran's to an Arquebus at some point as well if possible]

Additional Changes:

• All Priests can choose 'Secrets of Rime' at level up. (Rymrgand can choose 'Scion of Flame' for symmetry)
• All Priests lose access to PL9 abilities other than those specific to their deity. Each priest now only has 2 level XI abilities - a 'deity specific' spell and an incarnate summon.

Cheers again for all the support  

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by bell88

[Elric Galad]

Woedica : Concelhaut Crushing Doom was my idea but more on level VIII. Haunting Chain (BPM version) is a bit too much since it is meant to be the ultimate CC by the ultimate single target CC class and Woedicans would get it even sooner.
You could go (renamed) Bitter Mooring on Tier VI (Woedica likes immobilizing stuff) and Crushing Doom on Tier VIII.

Abydon : Unbending is the key ultimate Fighter ability. I don't think it's wise to give it to another class. You should go Sundering blow instead (even if Tier IX, it's only 2 discipline, so it makes sense on Tier VIII as a bit better Rust).
I don't think it's good for 2 gods to have the same spell on different level, so maybe not Crushing Doom. Maybe Power Strike ?

(faster mode)

Galawain : Wild Sprint on Tier IV is too bad.
Hunter's Claw is too weird mechanic to be used as a spell. 
Blackbow shall not be put on Tier VII ! It would be abusable by Multiclass.
Panther's Leap Tier IX is a bit too high.
Furious Vengeance : Invocation worth more than usual level. Swap with Panther's Leap. Still a bit generous but okay.
I like Marked Prey has an unique trait. Maybe Tier IV

Hylea : 
Avenging Storm shall not be put on Tier VII ! It would be abusable by Multiclass.

Ondra :
Nothing bad, but Moonwell, Relentless Storm and Avenging Storm should not be that high Tier.
Maybe remove the Fragment spell and move down everything 1 less tier. No idea for Tier VII and IX for the moment. Missile Salvo ?

Incarnate :
Don't forget that all Incarnate joins Teams, not Party. Duration shall depend on their number (or they would be too powerful).
Woedica : No idea but Skaen would feel weird. No Incarnate is an option, but you need other abilities then...
Galawain : Compared to Druid Version, this one would be less good (join Team, not party, PL penalty). Suggestion : you could have this one give +1PL instead of a malus. That would be unique but consitent with Galawain fluff.
Hylea : Check if this one is technically doable. And don't forget to balance it. You can go for a couple of non-upgraded Drakes if it doesn't work. (adult Dragon can be suspiciously OP)
Ondra : same as Hylea. The other mod has a spell that summons ice clone. 3 of them for 20s would be a good enough incarnate. 

Weapons :
Galawain : go for a pike. It will save you the trouble of dealing with the 1-handed thingy.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Elric Galad

[bell88]

Thanks for keeping the suggestions coming @Elric Galad - this is helpful, I think we're getting there. I've moved Crushing Doom to PL8 for Woedica and Added Bitter Mooring at PL6 (Its called 'Never Far From the Queen' which I think works well!). I've reworked Abydon exactly as you suggest as well. I've moved 'Bow of Galawain' and 'Avenging Storm' back up to PL8 since you suggest they're too abusable for multi-classes. (I just wanted to float the idea since I know in the past @Boeroerhas suggested that multi-classes losing Avenging Storm limits some build variety).

The current status is then:

	Abydon	Galawain	Hylea	Ondra
Lv1	Flames of the White Forge	Charm Beasts	Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Lv2	Abydon's Hammer	Taste of the Hunt	Winter Wind	The Moon's Light
Lv3	Twin Stones	Stag's Horn	Avian Familiars	Returning Storm
Lv4	Ironskin	Marked for the Hunt	Deleterious Alacrity	Overwhelming Wave
Lv5	Calling the World's Maw	Plague of Insects	Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Lv6	Embrace the Earth Talon	Ram's Sprint	Discordant Melody	Cleansing Waters
Lv7	Power Strike	Panther's Leap	Wilting Wind	Her Tears Fell Like Rain
Lv8	Sundering Blow	Bow of Galawain	Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Lv9	Enchanted Armoury	With Furious Vengeance!	Tornado	Eld Nary's Curse

Abydon:

• I think we're basically done here (I'll eventually try to change the spiritual weapon to a hammer to account for the loss of a 'hammer' in crushing doom)

Galawain:

• This one is causing me some trouble.
• Moved Mark of the Hunt to PL4 as you suggested
• Replaced Wild Sprint with the more powerful Ram's Sprint and put this at PL6
• Added a powerful 'Beasts' spell in 'Plague of Insects'
• 'Bow of Galawain' now PL8, and 'With Furious Vengeance!' at PL9 as discussed.
• I put 'Panther's Leap' at PL7 - do we think this is too strong to be PL7? (If yes - what could replace it?)
• Thoughts on swapping 'Charm Beasts' for 'Nature's Mark'?

Hylea:

• Moved Avenging Storm to PL8
• Added Wilting Wind at PL7. I personally don't think this is too strong for PL7, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.
• I've considered swapping 'Deleterious Alacrity' for 'Her Revenge Swept Across the Land'? (since I'd like to give Hylea another electricity type spell) - again I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

Ondra:

• Loses Avenging Storm (The storm spells should be split between her and Hylea - so Hylea gets this one)
• Bumped everything down a tier as discussed
• Moonwell -> Cleansing Waters (from Nocturnal's Mod)
• The PL7 ability is taken by 'Her Tears Fell Like Rain'. This invocation is normally at this power level, but if it's still too strong I'll swap it for 'Seven Nights She Wept'. The fluff of sadness and tears here is perfect for Ondra.
• 'Eld Nary's Curse' at PL9. Again perfect for Ondra (due to the ice damage and especially the fluff around a Sailor's Curse)

[Elric Galad]

9 hours ago, bell88 said:

I've moved Crushing Doom to PL8 for Woedica and Added Bitter Mooring at PL6 (Its called 'Never Far From the Queen' which I think works well!). 

Perfection

Quote

The current status is then:

 

Galawain:

• This one is causing me some trouble.
• Moved Mark of the Hunt to PL4 as you suggested
• Replaced Wild Sprint with the more powerful Ram's Sprint and put this at PL6
• Added a powerful 'Beasts' spell in 'Plague of Insects'
• 'Bow of Galawain' now PL8, and 'With Furious Vengeance!' at PL9 as discussed.
• I put 'Panther's Leap' at PL7 - do we think this is too strong to be PL7? (If yes - what could replace it?)

Plague of insect already in Berath's list (could be an exception but preferrably not).
My suggestions :
5 : Base Leap. I think it's fitting this way.
6 : Borrowed Instinct. Emphasize Galawain's tricky side and Acc self-buffing gameplay
7 : Savage Courage (BPM version). Yes healing is already a priest thingy but this one provides instacast and insta concentration. So I think it's good.
 

Quote

• Thoughts on swapping 'Charm Beasts' for 'Nature's Mark'?

As you wish. Both are nice and fitting.

Quote

Hylea:

• Moved Avenging Storm to PL8
• Added Wilting Wind at PL7. I personally don't think this is too strong for PL7, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

WIlting Wind is a bit powerful and not really fitting. Hylea is a "good" goddess.
I'll go with Weather the Storm (and gives Eothas some reckless Sacred Immolation that would fit him better).

Quote

• I've considered swapping 'Deleterious Alacrity' for 'Her Revenge Swept Across the Land'? (since I'd like to give Hylea another electricity type spell) - again I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

Both are OK for me. Tier IV is really crowded for priest anyway.

Quote

Ondra:

• Loses Avenging Storm (The storm spells should be split between her and Hylea - so Hylea gets this one)
• Bumped everything down a tier as discussed
• Moonwell -> Cleansing Waters (from Nocturnal's Mod)
• The PL7 ability is taken by 'Her Tears Fell Like Rain'. This invocation is normally at this power level, but if it's still too strong I'll swap it for 'Seven Nights She Wept'. The fluff of sadness and tears here is perfect for Ondra.

Yep, I see what you mean, but we've been generous enough by giving her eld Nary. I think the unupgraded version would be safer.

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• 'Eld Nary's Curse' at PL9. Again perfect for Ondra (due to the ice damage and especially the fluff around a Sailor's Curse)

Yup


Tell me when you have any update about the incarnate. IIt is also necessary to check if Hylea's Familiar is in line with the Summon package of the BPM.

EDIT : Abydon's Hammer isn't technically an additional spell if it summons Abydon's version of Spiritual Weapon, ney ? You can just give him Mind Blade as a free pick, and Hammer as normal Spiritual weapon.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

Thinking twice, Marked for the Hunt is also a semi-passive key ability of the Ranger Class. I'm not sure it's wise to give it to another class even a Galawain's one.
I would go for Concussive Tranquilizer instead that provides interesting utility.

Then I'l choose Nature's Mark on Tier 1.

[bell88]

Nice one on the changes above. Adopted basically all of them. Agree on 'Marked for the Hunt' and good spot with Abydon's missing L2 spell. Indeed Spiritual Weapon should not count. 

Current status is then:

	Abydon	Galawain	Hylea	Ondra
Lv1	Flames of the White Forge	Nature's Mark	Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Lv2	Blades of the White Forge	Taste of the Hunt	Winter Wind	The Moon's Light
Lv3	Twin Stones	Stag's Horn	Avian Familiars	Returning Storm
Lv4	Ironskin	Leap	Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Lv5	Calling the World's Maw	Borrowed Instinct	Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Lv6	Embrace the Earth Talon	Concussive Tranquiliser	Discordant Melody	Cleansing Waters
Lv7	Power Strike	Savage Courage	Weather the Storm	Seven Nights She Wept
Lv8	Sundering Blow	Bow of Galawain	Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Lv9	Enchanted Armoury	With Furious Vengeance!	Tornado	Eld Nary's Curse

Blades of the White Forge is just Mind Blades.

Are we happy with the level progression for Galawain? I had to move Leap down from PL5 to PL4 to make space for Concussive Tranquiliser

[Elric Galad]

What ability could fit a spell Tier has a tricky part when martial class are involved.
For Spellcasters, spell Tier and ressources are equivalent.
For Martial, an active ability can be on a given Tier but their cost is a distinct component :
Concussive Tranquilizer is Tier VI but it only cost 1 bond.

Abilities that cost 1 Bond should be equivalent to Tier 1-3 spells (that's what I call the "Trickster equivalence" based on the cost of trickster spells).
Of course, Concussive Tranquilizer is from a higher Tier and is technically an upgrade (which costs 2 ability points to get), so it worths "a bit more" than a Tier 1 - 3 slot.
That's why I tier Concussive Tranquilizer on Tier 4 is okay.

And then :
4 : Concussive Tranquilizer
5 : Leap.
6 : Borrowed Instinct

I'm happy with the tables. Could you confirm Eothas is getting Sacred Immolation on Tier 7 for information ?

I still don't know what Hylea's familiar is. If it is an equivalent to Conjurer Familiar summon without the random factor I think it's OK. Just remember BPM has buffed this ability with 0.5s/0s cast/recovery time. I think it should apply.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Elric Galad

[bell88]

 Yes! This makes sense  

Eothas is getting sacred immolation for sure! Its a great idea - very fitting.

The Hylean Familiars are those from Nocturnal's mod at the moment.

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WIlting Wind is a bit powerful and not really fitting. Hylea is a "good" goddess.

On this point - I really want to give Hylea as much Wind keyworded stuff as possible. I know what you mean about the spell feeling perhaps 'too dark' (especially if we compare it to its DnD counterpart). But note the spell is bound to Amira's Wing in vanilla and seems to be Hylean in that sense.

I still need to think more on Hylea

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, bell88 said:

The Hylean Familiars are those from Nocturnal's mod at the moment.

Which doesn't tell me what it is. If you want to use additional summons in your mod, you need to have a clear idea of what they are.
I highly recommand reading my summon analysis thread :

 

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On this point - I really want to give Hylea as much Wind keyworded stuff as possible. I know what you mean about the spell feeling perhaps 'too dark' (especially if we compare it to its DnD counterpart). But note the spell is bound to Amira's Wing in vanilla and seems to be Hylean in that sense.

I still need to think more on Hylea

 

[bell88]

  

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Which doesn't tell me what it is. If you want to use additional summons in your mod, you need to have a clear idea of what they are.
I highly recommand reading my summon analysis thread :

Haha! Sorry for the imprecision 

I'm new to modding POE2, so I may need a bit of a hand with balancing the summons. I'm going to do it right at the end. There is in principle only one 'new' summon to balance for this mod (Avian Familiars), because the others are vanilla summons (that are covered by your mod Elric) - The Hylea incarnate is the chanter sky dragon summon, and the Aybdon incarnate is the chanter 'Instruments' summon. 'Avian Familiars' seems to summon three birds that are quite fragile. They provide a perception and power level bonus. I'd be happy to change this however we see fit. I'd quite like Hylea to have something that grants the priest 'Swift'. So maybe the birds could provide that inspiration + PL boost?

I think the ability tables are in a good places, and I'm making good progress. I did have a few questions that it would be good to get your thoughts on:

1) Keywords

I had some questions here to make sure I was being consistent with my keyword tagging. 

[Note all of these questions below apply when using the Community Patch Keywords module]

• Combusting Wounds: Should this be Punishment + Condemnation (strictly it doesn't deal damage by itself, only in response to another attack). Similarly - how would you tag 'Recall Agony' and 'Pain Link'?
• Should 'Pain Block' just be Inspiration or Inspiration + Restoration?
• The Prisoners Turned on Their Captors + Two Fingers of Daylight: Both of these grand immunities to afflictions. How are these categorised? Does it come under Protection since they're not strictly Inspirations but reduce the duration of hostile effects by an infinite amount? 'Prisoners' would then be both Protection, Inspiration (as it also provides Strong).
• Why are Woedica's writ spells tagged as Punishment + Condemnation? Shouldn't they only be Condemnation if I'm understanding correctly?
• Wael's confusion spell seems to have the 'Illusion' keyword - but none of the other Wael priest spells have that tag
• Vile Thorns counters 'Antidote', but doesn't have the 'Poison' keyword. Is that a bug?
• Maybe 'Wall of Thorns' should have the 'Poison' keyword and counter 'Antidote' since the description explicitly mentions that it's poisonous?

2) Onra & Hylea ability trees
We're mostly set with everyone's ability trees. I just want to iron out a few final questions on these two and then I think everything is fixed up. I have three options here, and I'd be interested in which you prefer/think is best @Elric Galad (also interested in anyone else's thoughts as well of course).

Option 1

Hylea	Ondra
Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Winter Wind	The Moon's Light
Avian Familiars	Returning Storm
Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody	Rejuvenating Waters
Weather the Storm	Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Tornado	Eld Nary's Curse

Option 2

Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars	The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability)	Returning Storm
Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody	Rejuvenating Waters
So Singt Eld Nary	Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Tornado	Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

Option 3

Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars	The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability)	Returning Storm
Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody	Rejuvenating Waters
Sirocco (Wilting Wind - without weakness)	Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Eld Nary's Curse	Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

2) PL IX abilities.

As discussed earlier, I want to move away from a model where every God gets all the different God abilities as options at PL9. (This also would no longer make sense given the addition of four new Gods and their associated PL9 abilities would overcrowd the level hugely). We have several options. At the moment I've made it so each God gets their unique PL9 ability + an incarnate summon (except Woedica) and thats it. I think that's two few abilities.

I'm proposing to change that so they in addition get one other God's ability as shown in the table below (generically this is a God that they are either thematically or personally allied with). Let me know your thoughts/any proposed changes to the table. (Or if you have any other ideas).

Berath	Hand of Berath	Call of Rymrgand	Incarnate
Eothas	Light of Eothas	Blessing of Wael	Incarnate
Gaun	Pollen Patch	Light of Eothas	Incarnate
Magran	Magran's Judgement	Enchanted Armoury	Incarnate
Rymrgand	Call of Rymrgand	Hand of Berath	Incarnate
Skaen	Revenge of Skaen	With Furious Vengeance	Incarnate
Wael	Blessing of Wael	Magran's Judgement?	Incarnate
Woedica	Writ of Mending	With Furious Vengeance	Revenge of Skaen
Abydon	Enchanted Armoury	Magran's Judgement	Incarnate
Galawain	With Furious Vengeance	Pollen Patch	Incarnate
Hylea	Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse	Light of Eothas	Incarnate
Ondra	Eld Nary's Curse/Maelstrom	Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse	Incarnate

Edited October 20, 2020 by bell88

[Elric Galad]

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

  

I'm new to modding POE2, so I may need a bit of a hand with balancing the summons. I'm going to do it right at the end. There is in principle only one 'new' summon to balance for this mod (Avian Familiars), because the others are vanilla summons (that are covered by your mod Elric) - The Hylea incarnate is the chanter sky dragon summon,

There is no Sky Dragon summon.
There is an Adult Dragon Summon (but this one is a NO. it should be chanter only)
There is a Drake Summon (this one could be a legit Incarnate, even 2 of them would fit : remember that Incarnate Duration should IMHO depend on their number and that Incarantes join Team, not Party, so aren't controllable.).

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

 

'Avian Familiars' seems to summon three birds that are quite fragile.

3 Summons is strong, even if they are individullay weak. 1 would be good enough.

Don't create a new summon spell : build your design on Conjurer's familiar, without random component. Possibly tweak up just a little bit its stats.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

They provide a perception and power level bonus. I'd be happy to change this however we see fit. I'd quite like Hylea to have something that grants the priest 'Swift'. So maybe the birds could provide that inspiration + PL boost?

No, too strong. Cannon fodder + Swift as a Tier ~3 is too good.
Swift on its own without +15% Action speed and self damages from DAoM could fit. Could be 60s duration.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

I think the ability tables are in a good places, and I'm making good progress. I did have a few questions that it would be good to get your thoughts on:

1) Keywords

I had some questions here to make sure I was being consistent with my keyword tagging. 

[Note all of these questions below apply when using the Community Patch Keywords module]

• Combusting Wounds: Should this be Punishment + Condemnation (strictly it doesn't deal damage by itself, only in response to another attack). Similarly - how would you tag 'Recall Agony' and 'Pain Link'?
• Should 'Pain Block' just be Inspiration or Inspiration + Restoration?
• The Prisoners Turned on Their Captors + Two Fingers of Daylight: Both of these grand immunities to afflictions. How are these categorised? Does it come under Protection since they're not strictly Inspirations but reduce the duration of hostile effects by an infinite amount? 'Prisoners' would then be both Protection, Inspiration (as it also provides Strong).
• Why are Woedica's writ spells tagged as Punishment + Condemnation? Shouldn't they only be Condemnation if I'm understanding correctly?
• Wael's confusion spell seems to have the 'Illusion' keyword - but none of the other Wael priest spells have that tag
• Vile Thorns counters 'Antidote', but doesn't have the 'Poison' keyword. Is that a bug?
• Maybe 'Wall of Thorns' should have the 'Poison' keyword and counter 'Antidote' since the description explicitly mentions that it's poisonous?

You got the principles right. Do as you feel, it's not THAT critical. I'm working on Poison keyword missing at the moment for BPM 1.3.2.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

2) Onra & Hylea ability trees
We're mostly set with everyone's ability trees. I just want to iron out a few final questions on these two and then I think everything is fixed up. I have three options here, and I'd be interested in which you prefer/think is best @Elric Galad (also interested in anyone else's thoughts as well of course).

Option 1

Hylea	Ondra
Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Winter Wind	The Moon's Light
Avian Familiars	Returning Storm
Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody	Rejuvenating Waters
Weather the Storm	Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Tornado	Eld Nary's Curse

Option 2

Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars	The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability)	Returning Storm
Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody	Rejuvenating Waters
So Singt Eld Nary	Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Tornado	Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

Option 3

Talon's Reach	Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars	The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability)	Returning Storm
Revenge Swept	Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind	Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody	Rejuvenating Waters
Sirocco (Wilting Wind - without weakness)	Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm	Symbol of Ondra
Eld Nary's Curse	Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

 

All 3 work. I was thinking about Wilting Wind without weakness for Tier 7 too, so it's OK.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

2) PL IX abilities.

As discussed earlier, I want to move away from a model where every God gets all the different God abilities as options at PL9. (This also would no longer make sense given the addition of four new Gods and their associated PL9 abilities would overcrowd the level hugely). We have several options. At the moment I've made it so each God gets their unique PL9 ability + an incarnate summon (except Woedica) and thats it. I think that's two few abilities.

I'm proposing to change that so they in addition get one other God's ability as shown in the table below (generically this is a God that they are either thematically or personally allied with). Let me know your thoughts/any proposed changes to the table. (Or if you have any other ideas).

Berath	Hand of Berath	Call of Rymrgand	Incarnate
Eothas	Light of Eothas	Blessing of Wael	Incarnate
Gaun	Pollen Patch	Light of Eothas	Incarnate
Magran	Magran's Judgement	Enchanted Armoury	Incarnate
Rymrgand	Call of Rymrgand	Hand of Berath	Incarnate
Skaen	Revenge of Skaen	With Furious Vengeance	Incarnate
Wael	Blessing of Wael	Magran's Judgement?	Incarnate
Woedica	Writ of Mending	With Furious Vengeance	Revenge of Skaen
Abydon	Enchanted Armoury	Magran's Judgement	Incarnate
Galawain	With Furious Vengeance	Pollen Patch	Incarnate
Hylea	Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse	Light of Eothas	Incarnate
Ondra	Eld Nary's Curse/Maelstrom	Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse	Incarnate

Good idea. The table is clear but a "Magic the Gathering Color Pie" drawing would be wonderful to understand who gets what within Eora'scosmology.
Yeah, more complicated with 11 gods than with 5 colors

[bell88]

Hey all (and particularly @Boeroer @Elric Galad @Noqn @NocturnalTrance), just to let you know - I finished the first version of the mod outlined above. It changes all the vanilla subclass progression as well as adding priests of Ondra, Galawain, Hylea and Abydon.

You can find it on the Nexus here https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/476?tab=description

Thanks for the early brainstorming! This ended up being a lot of work! It was fun though. Its my first mod so please go easy on me  I'm sure there will be some inconsistencies in there. I tried to test it a decent amount to tease out any major bugs. I'll do my best to fix things people find. 

I was wondering if someone could help me with one practical thing. I'd like to also upload it to the steam workshop, but I find none of my custom icons get found. They all appear in game with the standard red cross. This isn't an issue if I copy the data to the override folder and install that way - its specific to steam when you subscribe to the mod. I've followed BMac's tutorial - so all my ability icons are in an atlas and I refer to them directly by the name in the atlas metadata and don't have to provide a filepath. Has anyone come across this issue?

 

[Elric Galad]

Great, no time for a complete review, but I'll add a link from my own mod for people who wants more Priest tweak.

Note that in the latest version of BPM, I've added a "Favored Weapon" (+10 accuracy) mod to all Spiritual Weapon but Woedica.
You might be interested to reuse it for your new subclass spiritual weapons.

Also there are a couple of new spells (Hylea and Ondra) which are not explained (since they are not just renamed spells but actually new spells... from the other priest mod I think).

[bell88]

Thanks a lot Elric - I'll make those updates to the mod description - and cheers for linking  I'll see what I can do with the spiritual weapons

 

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, bell88 said:

Thanks a lot Elric - I'll make those updates to the mod description - and cheers for linking  I'll see what I can do with the spiritual weapons

 

Just added in the priest changes description :

For deeper changes about Priest Subclasses, feel free to check following mod :
https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/476?tab=description
It adds subclasses for all gods and all priests get an unique or "borrowed from another class" spell on each tier depending on their deity.
The mod has been designed to be compatible with Community Patch and Balance Polishing Mod.

I think you should be able to register CP and BPM in the "Nexus Requirements" field of your mod.
The good point (if I understand well) is that it will automatically add your mod in the "Mod Requiring this file" field from CP and BPM.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Elric Galad

[dgray62]

I recently downloaded this mod, and tried a priest of Ondra with a mystic (soul blade) multiclass. The "low tide fists" spiritual weapon seemed a bit buggy. I had already selected Monastic Unarmed Training, and was surprised to see that the MUT bonuses were applied to the spiritual weapons. On the other hand, they do not seem to be treated as "weapons." I got no focus while using them, nor was the biting whip damage bonus applied, and was unable to use Soul Annihilation while using them.