Need help for Two-handed Sword build (Turn Based)

[Adexrekt]

Hello,

I just bought the game and I could not find a definitive build for what I want my MC to be.

I likely want it to be a Fighter(Devoted?)/Cypher(Soulblade?), using a two-handed sword, that works well in Turn Based mode. If other class combinations work better for Turn Based, I am open to suggestions

I will also make one custom companion, probably a healer (if so, a paladin, not a druid or priest), or a rogue. But I am open to other suggestions apart from those. What could work well?

I want the builds to be optimal, but I insist on both being human, and also my MC needs to be intelligent for conversations, for story purposes.

Thank you for the help in advance!

Edited August 8, 2020 by Adexrekt
typo

[Haplok]

Two handers are not the best at gathering Focus. A Cipher is not the best at Turn Based action economy.

A solution could be to use Whispers of the Endless Paths with the Offensive Parry upgrade to gather Focus passively, by retaliating to enemy attacks.

But that'd mean you'd need to tank. And that won't be very easy with such a build, even moreso early game. My recommendation: play on a low difficulty setting, where you could still tank despite having less then stellar Deflection.

[Madscientist]

In turn based mode the graze range is bigger, which means you and enemies will miss less and graze more in turn based than in rtwp. This means stuff that depends on retaliation is less good in turn based.

What difficulty do you want to play?

I had a devoted/soul blade with greatsword on normal in turn based and I had no problems, but any char can beat the game on normal. I did not try to beat the mega bosses, but everything else was easy.

Dex is almost useless in turn based. In real time it lets you act faster, but in turn based everyone has only action per turn anyway, except instant actions .

Edited August 10, 2020 by Madscientist

[Boeroer]

Somebody reported that Riposte and Offensive Parry trigger at the same numerical attack roll values, even if the miss/graze range is different. Cannot confirm but have no reason to doubt the report. 

Since two handers are on par with dual wielding in terms of dps in RTwP I see no problems with focus generation. Especially because Turn Based mode isn't as rewarding for attack speed boosts such as dual wielding and two weapon style. And also because a Fighter/Cipher has no full attacks besides Penetrating Strike (which you don't really need to pick with a Devoted/Cipher who can already get +3 PEN, even +4 PEN with two handed compared to dual damage single handed weapons.

A fighter/Cipher could easily play with Offensive Parry IF Borrowed Instincts and Vigorous Defense would stack - which they unfortunately don't (at least they didn't when I last tested that - which admittedly was quite some time ago). But a RES inspiration + Borrowed Instincts OR Vigorous Defense is already not that bad. But WotEP is good with Soulblades anyways since the cone applies Soul Annihilation damage to all enemies (height of raw damage varies). And also stuff like Mule Kick is pretty hilarious with the cone. Clear Out with WotEP is a superb focus generator against groups of enemies because cone*cone AoEs generate a ton of attack rolls. Also WotEP has another +1 PEN compared to normal great swords. Against singular foes "Run Through" is a great enchantment in order to gain good focus and then follow up with Soul Annihilation. 

Iirc the special procs of twohanders such as Voidwheel (Necrotic Lance) do generate focus when they hit. Necrotic Lance will only  generate focus with the initial damage, not the damage over time I would assume...?

Edited August 11, 2020 by Boeroer
corrected hilarious "Rub Through"

[Adexrekt]

Thanks for the replies! Let me say more clearly what I need.

The difficulty I play is Veteran.

Frankly, my monkey brain right now needs two clearly written builds to follow for the 2 custom characters -  I found ones for the story companions already that are decent enough. What to pick each level, what to use. I don't want to create a build, last time I tried to do so with this game was when it first came out and it burned me out, never finished it. I am a perfectionist to the point where I often ruin things for myself like this, can't do anything about it unfortunately. If there are already written builds, that would be great.

For the MC, again, I want a two-hander. Preferably a good Cipher/Fighter build as I said, but some other build could work too. Only requirement is that I don't have to dump PER/INT/RES for roleplaying reasons.

For the custom companion, I have decided I want a sniper. I went with a Holy Slayer, but the build is for real time mode, where you can re-enter stealth instantly to get the assassinate bonus with the Assassin subclass. In turn based, it takes a whole turn, I don't see it being worth it. Any other options? I don't want an animal companion (I know they are useful in turn based, but I still don't want one), so ranger is out. Any other option?

Thanks in advance!

[Haplok]

With Shadowing Beyond, entering stealth is instant (Free Action in Turn Based). Of course, its also costly Guile-wise (3 Guile per use).

Its actually great for Turn Based - even moreso for caster Assassins, who usually don't spend Guile on direct attacks.

 

Since Vigorous Defenses and Borrowed Instinct don't stack, perhaps a Paladin/Cipher would be a better choice? Like Steel Garrote to heal passively from afflicted enemies (and Offensive Parry Dazes on riposte hits).

Of course, I'm a bigger fan of Rogue/Ciphers (like Trickster/Soulblade for melee) or Monk/Ciphers (like Helwalker/Ascendant for a mix of melee and ranged).

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Haplok

[Adexrekt]

10 hours ago, Haplok said:

With Shadowing Beyond, entering stealth is instant (Free Action in Turn Based). Of course, its also costly Guile-wise (3 Guile per use).

Its actually great for Turn Based - even moreso for caster Assassins, who usually don't spend Guile on direct attacks.

 

Since Vigorous Defenses and Borrowed Instinct don't stack, perhaps a Paladin/Cipher would be a better choice? Like Steel Garrote to heal passively from afflicted enemies (and Offensive Parry Dazes on riposte hits).

Of course, I'm a bigger fan of Rogue/Ciphers (like Trickster/Soulblade for melee) or Monk/Ciphers (like Helwalker/Ascendant for a mix of melee and ranged).

 

 

 

Rogue/Cipher sounds interesting. Would that work with two-handed? Does it need to rely on attacks from stealth? If you could go in specifics, that would be really helpful. I haven't found a proper build for this unfortunately.

 

For the Holy Slayer, would the Steel Garrote work as a subclass? I don't want it to be a Bleak Walker for roleplaying reasons.

 

Thanks again in advance.

[Helz]

I'm playing a barb-berserker/fighter (brute) for my first character. He's dual-wielding, but 2-handed would work great. The extra reach would help when cleave-stance procs; my dude whiffs a lot on those.

Very early on (< level 5), he's kinda boring. Once you get some fighter and barb full attack abilities, it gets fun.

Its a balancing act keeping him in position to hit as many enemies as possible without being overwhelmed. Being a berserker makes things more interesting, you don't want to be too close to friends and you can't see your HP.

He's a Nature Godlike, but you can adjust for human and whatever background you like. His base attributes are:

    Might: 15
    Const: 12
    Dext: 15 (+1 Godlike, +1 Deadfire Arch)
    Perc: 12
    Int: 12 (+1 Godlike)
    Res: 12

Like you, I prefer balanced characters. Gear and Frenzy bonuses make him uncommonly powerful. At level 14 he's done 2-3 times as much damage as anyone else in the party (he's also taken the most damage and been knocked out the most times). I'm playing on Veteran with full scaling upwards.

Whatever class you go with, I suggest specializing in 2 weapon types.  Either Greatsword & Morning Star (or) Estoc & Pollaxe, so that you have all 3 damage types covered. Some enemies are resistant/immune to slash and pierce and you'll want to crush them.

[Haplok]

13 hours ago, Adexrekt said:

Rogue/Cipher sounds interesting. Would that work with two-handed? Does it need to rely on attacks from stealth? If you could go in specifics, that would be really helpful. I haven't found a proper build for this unfortunately.

 

For the Holy Slayer, would the Steel Garrote work as a subclass? I don't want it to be a Bleak Walker for roleplaying reasons.

 

Thanks again in advance.

Two-handed is a bit slow, but sure, its possible. And no, you don't need to use Stealth at all if its not your cup of tea (although an Assassin / Soulblade striking from the shadows is certainly possible).

If you don't, recommend the Trickster subclass, his defensive buffs will be very helpful (particularly Mirror Image and Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage).

Using the Whispers of the Endless Paths, you get 2 chances to retaliate on every enemy miss: from rogue's Riposte ability and from Whisper's own Offensive Parry (100%) enchantment. And earn extra Focus.

 

For a Holy Slayer using Whispers two-hander, I'd guess that Steel Garrote might actually be the best choice.

[Adexrekt]

6 hours ago, Haplok said:

Two-handed is a bit slow, but sure, its possible. And no, you don't need to use Stealth at all if its not your cup of tea (although an Assassin / Soulblade striking from the shadows is certainly possible).

If you don't, recommend the Trickster subclass, his defensive buffs will be very helpful (particularly Mirror Image and Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage).

Using the Whispers of the Endless Paths, you get 2 chances to retaliate on every enemy miss: from rogue's Riposte ability and from Whisper's own Offensive Parry (100%) enchantment. And earn extra Focus.

 

For a Holy Slayer using Whispers two-hander, I'd guess that Steel Garrote might actually be the best choice.

Thanks! I did not specify in my last comment, but the Holy Slayer custom companion would be the sniper, with an Arquebus. Would that work too? I tried checking the tooltip for the Garrote skill, but it does not say a range.

Also, regarding my MC, please just forget about the Whispers two-handed. I don't want to create a build around just that, and I will probably give it to Pallegrina. Would a Figther/Cipher work if we disregard that weapon? Would a Rogue/Cipher be still better? Any better alternatives?

Edited August 12, 2020 by Adexrekt

[Haplok]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:24 AM, Adexrekt said:

Thanks! I did not specify in my last comment, but the Holy Slayer custom companion would be the sniper, with an Arquebus. Would that work too? I tried checking the tooltip for the Garrote skill, but it does not say a range.

Also, regarding my MC, please just forget about the Whispers two-handed. I don't want to create a build around just that, and I will probably give it to Pallegrina. Would a Figther/Cipher work if we disregard that weapon? Would a Rogue/Cipher be still better? Any better alternatives?

For a ranged weapon, you'd be better served with a Bleak Walker.

 

And I mentioned Whispers for a two-handed soulblade for 2 reasons:

1. Attacks in a Cone, can affect multiple enemies at once, gather Focus by hitting multiple enemies with each swing - that multi-attack works also for the Soul Annihilation special move, although the results are a bit funky.

2. Has Offensive Parry enchant, allowing retaliations against enemies who miss you - additionally gathers Focus passively, by striking back at opponents.

 

In general Ciphers are my favorite class in Real Time (Bloodmages too, I guess), but think they are rather ill suited for Turn Based. In a given Turn you can either Attack OR Cast (IF you have enough Focus), really excelling at neither.

I recommended the Whispers as it could somewhat alleviate these issues sometimes, when lucky - by gathering Focus to cast passively when its the enemies' Turn and you get a chance to retaliate. Also Whisper's interaction with Soul Annihilation is pretty good (not as good as it used to).

I don't think any other two-handed sword would work nearly as well. Dual wielding is also good, though. Particularly using Sun&Moon Flail (has 2 heads - strikes twice for lowered damage - but has less risk to miss a Soul Annihilation move AND instantly gathers some  Focus with the 2nd head strike) and... maybe the bashing shield, Tuotilo's Palm to be safe. Or some mighty saber.

 

Fighter/Cipher is a much safer choice. A Fighter becomes nearly unkillable when he gets Unbending (if you are reasonable, of course). But a Rogue/Cipher would pump way more damage (=> consequently also gain way more Focus) and, in case of Trickster, can be relatively sturdy also (can temporarily boost Deflection by 30, can get an aura that terrifies nearby enemies -> both are early, cheap buffs!).

Edited August 13, 2020 by Haplok

[Lampros]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:20 AM, Boeroer said:

Somebody reported that Riposte and Offensive Parry trigger at the same numerical attack roll values, even if the miss/graze range is different. Cannot confirm but have no reason to doubt the report. 

 

Has this been confirmed? Can someone else chime in?