Next AAA game from Obsidian after The Outer Worlds discussion

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, ABearIsHere said:

I'd have to imagine that DLC production was slowed down by the pandemic, much like the Switch port ended up being delayed. I don't know how much outsourcing was done on The Outer Worlds, for example, but a lot of developers in China who handle that sort of stuff would have to either have transitioned to work from home or closed altogether for a while, and this all the way back to the end of last year. Then you get Obsidian transitioning to WFH themselves, and it's easy to see how development would slow down as pipelines get adapted to the new workflow.

The game's still getting a Switch port and a Steam release, so, while it's not ideal to release DLC this late into its lifecycle, it can still make a come back in the news thanks to that (and we don't know *what* kind of DLC plans they have... is it a single big DLC? Smaller packs? If it's a single big DLC than the wait also makes more sense).

I went back to the DLC survey they did a while back and did note that most of the respondents said they didn't really care about the length of time between when the game is released and when the DLC drops, so I suspect that Wormerine is onto something when he says it might be targeted for the Steam release.

[Theonlygarby]

Hopefully it means this DLC will be rather large.  Personally I like short notice releases.  I'd rather them tell us what its going to be close to the release... especially for DLC.  Though they don't want to wait too long, or it may lose out on the traction the game had.

[kanisatha]

Is this credible?

https://www.altchar.com/game-news/obsidians-next-aaa-skyrim-like-rpg-to-be-announced-at-xbox-event-this-month-abdVi4x5L11N

If so, the game could be using the PoE IP but as a solo-play, first-person, open-world game I suppose.

Don't know how I feel about that.

[Theonlygarby]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Is this credible?

https://www.altchar.com/game-news/obsidians-next-aaa-skyrim-like-rpg-to-be-announced-at-xbox-event-this-month-abdVi4x5L11N

If so, the game could be using the PoE IP but as a solo-play, first-person, open-world game I suppose.

Don't know how I feel about that.

I think probably there will be something similar to Skyrim.  Though I'm not convinced it will use the POE IP. 

 

By "like Skyrim" i hope that just means first person fantasy rpg and not huge open world with boring quests and bland story.

 

That article doesn't say much really.

[kanisatha]

1 hour ago, Theonlygarby said:

I think probably there will be something similar to Skyrim.  Though I'm not convinced it will use the POE IP. 

 

By "like Skyrim" i hope that just means first person fantasy rpg and not huge open world with boring quests and bland story.

 

That article doesn't say much really.

But as a fantasy RPG, why would they go to a new IP when they already have the PoE IP? And just to clarify, when I say "PoE IP" I mean using the setting and lore of PoE, not another game in the same series as PoE1 and 2.

And yes, I also would expect that it will be "Skyrim" only in very general ways, and unlike Skyrim will have all those strong RPG elements that Obsidian is known for.

Edited July 13, 2020 by kanisatha

[Theonlygarby]

4 hours ago, kanisatha said:

But as a fantasy RPG, why would they go to a new IP when they already have the PoE IP? And just to clarify, when I say "PoE IP" I mean using the setting and lore of PoE, not another game in the same series as PoE1 and 2.

And yes, I also would expect that it will be "Skyrim" only in very general ways, and unlike Skyrim will have all those strong RPG elements that Obsidian is known for.

You could be right.  I just think you alienate the CRPG pillars fans.  Not that its a huge number, there are POE fans who do not like 1st/3rd person rpgs.  I've also read an interview with Sawyer where he said there were things he would change if he could do it again.  As he had to somewhat rush the world building.  Personally I dont think the world and its magic lend itself to first person.  It's also weird going from CRPG to first person.  There are lots of people who dont play crpgs, and some who dont play 1st person. Fallout 3 did it, but they also completely abandoned the old model of game.  Not sure any game switches up that much back and forth.

 

I could definitely be wrong... i just have a hunch that its not going to be pillars.  I mean... any pillars fan that would be excited for a first person pillars game, will also be excited for a new IP fantasy game.  To anyone who doesn't play the original pillars, I'm sure they would prefer a world that they arent missing any content for.  Then if there is a crpg pillars 3 game, you havent annoyed any fans.

 

if i had to guess, it would be a less magic heavy world.  PLEASE GOD GIVE ME GRIMDARK. Would also maybe be a comprimise for Josh wanting a historical RPG.  OR maybe he actually got that historical RPG?

Edited July 14, 2020 by Theonlygarby

[Wormerine]

13 hours ago, kanisatha said:

But as a fantasy RPG, why would they go to a new IP when they already have the PoE IP? And just to clarify, when I say "PoE IP" I mean using the setting and lore of PoE, not another game in the same series as PoE1 and 2.

Feargus said previously he would like Skyrim-like set in Eora, so that's assumption is not a crazy one, even if it could be a bit outdated. 

Personally, I am not sure if Eora is a good universe for franchising. It's mythology, arcane and history are a bit too heavy and too deeply tied to a conflict central to PoE1&2. I don't think one can make a spinoff without making it odd for new comers or going against what made some players like the setting in the first place. PoE2 also proved that the IP isn't a reliable money-maker. Still, how long was this project in development and would PoE2 poor financial performance have any effect on it?

Still, Obsidian's finest work came from odd projects. Perhaps, a challenge of adapting PoE into big budget, accesible Skyrim-like would result in something to remember for years.

Whatever they are cooking I am interested in seeing it. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, kanisatha said:

But as a fantasy RPG, why would they go to a new IP when they already have the PoE IP?

Name a studio that only makes games for one IP.

From a less cynical perspective, one could argue that games are art and developers are artists. Artists are creatives and just as painter would whither making copies of the same landscape for the rest of their lives, developers want to play in lots of sandboxes, rather than one.

From a more cynical perspective, multiple IPs means multiple projects (and multiple project teams). This allows you to make money selling the newest installment of, say, Fallout this year and more money selling the latest iteration of, say, the Elder Scrolls series next year. More IPs = more money (and less risk).

[kanisatha]

13 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

You could be right.  I just think you alienate the CRPG pillars fans.  Not that its a huge number, there are POE fans who do not like 1st/3rd person rpgs.  I've also read an interview with Sawyer where he said there were things he would change if he could do it again.  As he had to somewhat rush the world building.  Personally I dont think the world and its magic lend itself to first person.  It's also weird going from CRPG to first person.  There are lots of people who dont play crpgs, and some who dont play 1st person. Fallout 3 did it, but they also completely abandoned the old model of game.  Not sure any game switches up that much back and forth.

I could definitely be wrong... i just have a hunch that its not going to be pillars.  I mean... any pillars fan that would be excited for a first person pillars game, will also be excited for a new IP fantasy game.  To anyone who doesn't play the original pillars, I'm sure they would prefer a world that they arent missing any content for.  Then if there is a crpg pillars 3 game, you havent annoyed any fans.

Again, I need to repeat, I am NOT suggesting at all that this would be a game carrying the title of "Pillars of Eternity." It would NOT be called PoE anything.

4 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Personally, I am not sure if Eora is a good universe for franchising. It's mythology, arcane and history are a bit too heavy and too deeply tied to a conflict central to PoE1&2. I don't think one can make a spinoff without making it odd for new comers or going against what made some players like the setting in the first place.

But the setting's history and mythology are not finite. Obsidian can continue to add and expand on all of that lore. I don't see any reason to view the lore of the setting as tied to the existing PoE games. Heck this game could even be in a timeline well before PoE1. It could be in the time of the Engwithans!

 

3 hours ago, Achilles said:

Name a studio that only makes games for one IP.

Sure. But you also don't want too many IPs such that they just languish. Huge RPG studios like Bethesda, Bioware, and CDPR are operating with only a very small number of IPs that they keep going back to, and creating a new IP is considered a very big deal.

But here again, I think we all are having some confusion about what is an IP, i.e. the definition of an IP. As an example, using the Baldur's Gate games, is "Baldur's Gate" the IP, or is "D&D" the IP? For me, I've always thought of it as "D&D" is the IP, and "BG" is one game franchise (among many) within that IP. But I have no idea. It could well be the exact opposite. I am not even close to being an expert on any of this legalese.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Sure. But you also don't want too many IPs such that they just languish. Huge RPG studios like Bethesda, Bioware, and CDPR are operating with only a very small number of IPs that they keep going back to, and creating a new IP is considered a very big deal.

But here again, I think we all are having some confusion about what is an IP, i.e. the definition of an IP. As an example, using the Baldur's Gate games, is "Baldur's Gate" the IP, or is "D&D" the IP? For me, I've always thought of it as "D&D" is the IP, and "BG" is one game franchise (among many) within that IP. But I have no idea. It could well be the exact opposite. I am not even close to being an expert on any of this legalese.

IP is a legal term meaning "Intellectual Property". Arguably both D&D and Baldur's Gate are both IPs, where the latter is operating under a licensing agreement with the former. Within the gaming community though, I think it's fair to say that Baldur's Gate is a separate IP from Neverwinter Nights, even though they are both based on the same ruleset (D&D, yet another IP).

Bethesda operates with small number of IPs because they like to play safe and make lots of money. Bioware experimented with lots of IPs (some of which took off and some didn't), so I'm not sure what you're referencing here. CDPR operates with only one (soon to be two) IP(s) because they were a software distribution company that semi-accidentally became a powerhouse game studio largely due to the fact that they put all of their eggs in one basket and then gold-plated both the egg and the basket.

There's an old adage that one should never throw away good money after bad. I suspect this is where Obsidian currently stand with Pillars (which is sad because I liked Deadfire and would really like to see the end of the trilogy). The reality is that that the trajectory of the franchise makes the business case for part three a tough sell. So the smart move is to try something new. Which is what it sounds like they may be doing.

 

[kanisatha]

8 minutes ago, Achilles said:

IP is a legal term meaning "Intellectual Property".

^This I am well aware of. Just wasn't sure how the concept of IP was being applied to videogame franchises. Your take does help. Thanks.

 

11 minutes ago, Achilles said:

There's an old adage that one should never throw away good money after bad. I suspect this is where Obsidian currently stand with Pillars (which is sad because I liked Deadfire and would really like to see the end of the trilogy). The reality is that that the trajectory of the franchise makes the business case for part three a tough sell. So the smart move is to try something new. Which is what it sounds like they may be doing.

Yes I also would've loved a PoE3. But if Obsidian's choices are (a) PoE3 with TB combat and other nonsense along the lines of Larian's take on BG3, or (b) a spinoff first/third-person open-world AAA Skyrim-style game, then sadly I am very much for (b) over (a).

[the_dog_days]

If it is POE I hope that it is a continuation of the Watcher's story. The ending of Deadfire clearly is setting up a third entry and it would be a shame if that got scrapped because Deadfire didn't do great. (I also hope they don't recon out classes, turn companions into bots that act as nothing more than carry weight space, or reduce party size even more but I see to of those three as vain hopes.)

[Theonlygarby]

1 hour ago, the_dog_days said:

If it is POE I hope that it is a continuation of the Watcher's story. The ending of Deadfire clearly is setting up a third entry and it would be a shame if that got scrapped because Deadfire didn't do great. (I also hope they don't recon out classes, turn companions into bots that act as nothing more than carry weight space, or reduce party size even more but I see to of those three as vain hopes.)

I really hope it's not a continuation personally.  It always bothers me when you start a new game as an old character... But are for some reason very weak.  They did a decent job in deadfire making it believable.  Due to souls being lost.  But still...  Not a fan of the level 1 again in sequels.

 

In the pillars world? Maybe.  But i would be shocked if it was a straight up continuation...  That would annoy lots of crpg fans and also send new fans in blindly.  Definitely don't see that happening.

 

They would almost definitely have to mess with classes/magic.  I can't think of any first person RPGs that have classes.  How would a bard work if it is not party based?  Generally first person/third person games let you choose stats but not class.  "Class" is just built as you level up.

 

Also as Achilles said, the series is not a huge success.  You probably aren't attracting anyone with the pillars IP.  I can't imagine there are too many people that would skip this new game because it is NOT in the pillars universe.

 

Side note, I much prefer the elder scrolls/tyranny/kingdom come leveling system.  By that I mean do a thing to get better at that thing.  Instead of place skill points into skills to get better... Beside the point but still.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Theonlygarby

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

^This I am well aware of. Just wasn't sure how the concept of IP was being applied to videogame franchises. Your take does help. Thanks.

<snip>

Yes I also would've loved a PoE3. But if Obsidian's choices are (a) PoE3 with TB combat and other nonsense along the lines of Larian's take on BG3, or (b) a spinoff first/third-person open-world AAA Skyrim-style game, then sadly I am very much for (b) over (a).

Glad that helped!

Regardless of which vein their next game takes, I'm super excited to see whatever Obsidian makes with a AAA budget behind them.

[the_dog_days]

2 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

I really hope it's not a continuation personally. 

I didn't want Deadfire to be a direct sequel but given that it is and that it ends on a cliffhanger, I'm invested in getting a third Watcher entry to wrap up that story arc.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

I didn't want Deadfire to be a direct sequel but given that it is and that it ends on a cliffhanger, I'm invested in getting a third Watcher entry to wrap up that story arc.

The part where all the people who were pissed off that they didn't get to kill a god in the sequel miss out on killing several in the conclusion.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Theonlygarby said:

Side note, I much prefer the elder scrolls/tyranny/kingdom come leveling system.  By that I mean do a thing to get better at that thing.  Instead of place skill points into skills to get better... Beside the point but still.

Classless systems can be fun, but I would hate to see them completely supplant class-based games. Variety is a good thing

[Theonlygarby]

33 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Classless systems can be fun, but I would hate to see them completely supplant class-based games. Variety is a good thing

I'm not even against class based.  Just can't think of a first person RPGs that does it...  Nevermind... Mass effect did it.  Though it wouldn't be "like Skyrim" if it was like mass effect... I mean one is party based (somewhat at least) and the other is not.  

 

Either way, I do really like the skill growth through use of that skill.  Not a game changer by any means but it feels more real.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Theonlygarby

[Gorth]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:36 AM, kanisatha said:

Sure. But you also don't want too many IPs such that they just languish. Huge RPG studios like Bethesda, Bioware, and CDPR are operating with only a very small number of IPs that they keep going back to, and creating a new IP is considered a very big deal.

The counter argument would be, those IP's seems to have suffered for each new installment  in the series. Possible exception (no rule without exceptions) would be Witcher III which might be as least as good as the first game in the series. Fallout 76 and ME: Andromeda may have turned a profit, but at what cost for the owners reputations? (can't talk about DA:3 as I struggled with boredom every time I tried to get past the tutorial level(). Spin offs may be good though, rather than trying to recreate initial successes in a setting.

[kanisatha]

14 hours ago, Gorth said:

Spin offs may be good though, rather than trying to recreate initial successes in a setting.

Yup, and a spinoff is what I am expecting here. No doubt I would love a PoE3 someday because I love both previous games and expect to be replaying those games for years to come. But from a broader, non-personal, objective pov, if I were Obsidian, a spinoff is the direction I would take.

[LordInsane]

On 7/15/2020 at 1:23 AM, Theonlygarby said:

I'm not even against class based.  Just can't think of a first person RPGs that does it...  Nevermind... Mass effect did it.  Though it wouldn't be "like Skyrim" if it was like mass effect... I mean one is party based (somewhat at least) and the other is not.  

 

Either way, I do really like the skill growth through use of that skill.  Not a game changer by any means but it feels more real.

Non-party first person RPGs that has classes? Elder Scrolls I to IV, although they became less important as the series progressed (with Skyrim outright removing them being the culmination of that trend). Remains to be seen if Avowed will have classes, of course.

[Theonlygarby]

Super weird that Josh Sawyer says he's not working on Avowed...  What is he working on?!?  Does this mean there is another obsidian game being made?  I would love if they were also making POE3...  As much as I'm excited about avowed I really hope they don't abandon the crpg pillars

[ABearIsHere]

Sawyer is working on his own directed small-size project. He recently said during an interview that they made a prototype, the team is very small (around 5 people, though we don't know if they plan to grow from that after pre-production) and during at least one talk he mentioned his current project was "non-violent". He's still the design director at the studio, though.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, ABearIsHere said:

Sawyer is working on his own directed small-size project. He recently said during an interview that they made a prototype, the team is very small (around 5 people, though we don't know if they plan to grow from that after pre-production) and during at least one talk he mentioned his current project was "non-violent". He's still the design director at the studio, though.

Indeed. I think the last several time this question has come up, he's said that he's primarily focused on Design Director duties (i.e. reviewing work and making recommendations)

[kanisatha]

30 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Indeed. I think the last several time this question has come up, he's said that he's primarily focused on Design Director duties (i.e. reviewing work and making recommendations)

And cracking the whip?

I wanted this new game yesterday!