Cutscenes

[Opus131]

Nobody does cut-scenes like Square-Enix. I don't know why other companies bother sometime.

I think Blizzard run circles around them, Square-enix are all about graphic detail and little else...

[Quiquag]

Part of the problem is the need for a consistent meaning for the word 'cutscene'.

 

In reading this thread, you're all using the same word, 'cutscene', but seem to be applying them to different things.

 

Internally, we call the movies (like the ships taking off and landing in KotOR1. Shots of Taris getting blown up, etc) 'rendered movies'. Even if they do include shots that look like they were made with the engine (like I think was done on the bridge of the Leviathan when Malak ordered Taris destroyed), they're still very time consuming to create on our end. And of course take up a sizeable amount of space, since they're basically compressed video. Anyway, for clarification, we call those 'rendered movies' internally. Blizzard makes some awesome rendered movies for their games. They also only have 3 - 4 full length ones per game.

 

'Cutscenes', as we call them internally, are pretty much every single dialog in the game. They're all created the same way, via the Dialog Editor we're working with. Some involve more moving around, action happening, etc., while others are just a simple exchange of words with the camera switching to focus on different speakers depending on who's speaking. About the only difference is how many scripts we wrap into the dialog when making it.

 

I guess one more way to describe cutscenes, in the perspective of KotOR1, would be that cutscenes are all of the in-engine sequences that took place without your character in them or where you have no control over anything (not even control over replies). I don't think that happened all -that- often in KotoR1. I have no idea how often it will be happening in KotOR2.

 

I can say with confidence that we are pushing the Dialog Engine support a lot harder than it was pushed in KotOR1. We've added tons of additional scripting functions to pull off things that could not be done before. But cutscenes will always be rendered in the same graphics as the rest of the game.

 

I noticed many mentioned the desire to be able to skip cutscenes. Unfortunately, that's a very difficult thing to support without breaking the game. Many tracking variables are set during cutscenes, many objects are made or destroyed, many doors opened or closed, or even characters or creatures created by a script that needs to be called from somewhere in the cutscene. If you just skipped over the cutscenes, all the needed scripts wouldn't get executed and any number of things would break as a result.

 

Skipping rendered movies on the other hand is harmless enough, because no scripts are being called while the movies are being played.

 

I hope I've been able to clarify a couple things.

 

-Akari

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clearing that up. Sorry if it sounds like we are all complaining, we really loved the first game. I suppose we just don't want to see it messed up with excessive cut scenes like FF, or some of the other "videogame/ movies". I understand now why we can't skip the cutscenes, and if it messes up the game to skip them make them the same as in KOTOR1. :D

[Drakron]

Cut-scenes only exsist to take your mind off the fact the graphics are average and your playing a crappy turn based Square Enix game. <_<

...

FF X have far less FMV that FF IX and FF X-2 FMV are even fewer.

 

Cutscenes were (and are) used when the game engine cannot render it, before CDs cutscenes were rarely used because of space considerations, seeing how PS One have many limitations Squaresoft used 2D painted backgrounds with 3d sprites for creatures used FMV to show key points of the story, with PS2 technology they can use the 3d models for most scenes as as such FMV are simply used when they are trying to make a complex scene were the engine (such as Sin being bombarded) is still unsuitable.

[n0th1ng]

Nah, i checked...it isnt mark doing lukes voice...cant remember the name of that voice actor tho

[Raven]

some of the jedi academy cutscenes were cool, but the story for the game wasnt too good, and the cutscenes were from the game engine, which was also pretty cool.

 

some of kotors cutscenes messed up a little, like the sith soldier who like rotated when he walked away, when you go to the bench to make your saber, you walk into a party member, but those are just little things.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

Thanks for clearing that up Akari...but off topic, i thought mark was doing luke's voice in JO:JA from the very little I played of it, meaning the game sucked... :ph34r:

[JediMasterRevan]

I thought that JO sucked but I liked JA better even though it was too easy even on the Jedi Master difficulty.

[EnderAndrew]

Nobody does cut-scenes like Square-Enix.  I don't know why other companies bother sometime.

I think Blizzard run circles around them, Square-enix are all about graphic detail and little else...

I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion. Diablo's click-and-kill I find boring. Starcraft and Warcraft 3 were alright, but nothing spectatcular.

 

With each new Sqaure-Enix game, you get a new world, plot, mini-games, and new combat systems. In FF7 you had materia, in FF8, you had guardians, etc.

 

The "rendered movies" put out by Square-Enix are the finest on the planet. And the CGI in the new FF movie coming out in unreal. I've seen some people who don't enjoy playing FF movies because they are too cinematic, and that's their call. But I think it's not fair to say that Square-Enix games are graphics and nothing else. I'd wager you hadn't played many of them.

[Opus131]

I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion.  Diablo's click-and-kill I find boring.  Starcraft and Warcraft 3 were alright, but nothing spectatcular.

 

With each new Sqaure-Enix game, you get a new world, plot, mini-games, and new combat systems.  In FF7 you had materia, in FF8, you had guardians, etc.

 

The "rendered movies" put out by Square-Enix are the finest on the planet.  And the CGI in the new FF movie coming out in unreal.  I've seen some people who don't enjoy playing FF movies because they are too cinematic, and that's their call.  But I think it's not fair to say that Square-Enix games are graphics and nothing else.  I'd wager you hadn't played many of them.

First of all, i was talking about the cinematics alone, not the games.

 

Second of all, i'd say that Squere-Enix cinematix, far from being the finest of the planet, are nothing but an excercise in graphical technicality.

 

Blizzard cinematics are much more involving. The intro for Brood War is still one of the greatest cinematics ever produced for a video game to date, including FF.

 

BTW, since you brought the game itself on the table, what's so great about Final Fantasy anyway ?!?

 

Never did figure that out...

[Drakron]

Final Fantasy games have good scripts, even FF X-2 that (due to his theme) makes me wonder about why the heck I am playing it does a good job of what its trying to be.

 

A game is only or bad if it is able to be what it was intended to be, just like movies ... to like the game or not is just as movies a matter of personal taste (of course games are more complicated due to the player interaction).

 

Also I disagree with Blizzard being more involved because Blizzard does FMV the same way Square does, they both use then to maximun effect but as Blizzard does RTS games and so such scenes are limited were Square uses the more times, the Moon Waltz scene of FF VIII for example that displays a lot of Squall emotions and feelings.

[Raven]

im not a big fan of the final fantasy games, im more of a medal of honor fan, though it isnt an rpg, so back on topic.

 

final fantasy does have some ok cutscenes, nothing spectacular. if a game could get cutscene graphic quality while the persons playing, thats great. i was really impressed when i got medal of honor frontline (there i go again). the realistic explosions, bullets flying everywhere. almost made you feel like you were playing a cutscene (except for the water effects in the first level, blah). in fact, i think the gameplay from it looked better than its cutscenes, except for the last cutscene, i liked that one

[Meshugger]

I can say with confidence that we are pushing the Dialog Engine support a lot harder than it was pushed in KotOR1. We've added tons of additional scripting functions to pull off things that could not be done before. But cutscenes will always be rendered in the same graphics as the rest of the game.

 

I hope I've been able to clarify a couple things.

 

-Akari

Interesting, care to elaborate a bit on the subject? (pull of things we haven't done before?)

[Akari]

If you just skipped over the cutscenes, all the needed scripts wouldn't get executed and any number of things would break as a result.

How about the ability to "jump to the end" to each individual script ?

 

It may have been my imagination, but in some cutscenes you could "fastforward" it by clicking a couple of times, by others you couldn't. It was as if you had to wait for the voice over to finish, before the script could progress. One from top of my head is the introductions to the duel arena, where some lines of text could be skipped, others you had to wait for the guy finishing his introduction lines...

 

If you could "speed up" things a bit. it wouldn't need to skip it entirely. Especially nice if reloading before long scenes or even when playing through the game for the umpteenth time.

Yeah... what you saw there in the Arena was a certain 'delay' that you had to wait through before you could start skipping over the dialog nodes quickly. That delay was the time necessary to set up a lot of things via script in order for the arena to work right. To keep you from breaking the arena, they keep you from skipping over certain key nodes, or skipping too quickly, until the stage has been set. While it seems to tie in with the voice-over, it's actually not connected. It was just an issue of 'necessary delay so that things work'.

 

There will be places in KotOR2 where you run into some of the same things unfortunately. It's something we can't get around in the engine. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that we'll be more careful in forcing you to undergo a cutscene over and over again. I found the opening to the arena tedious as well, especially since I kept dying and having to do it over and over, and couldn't just skip over the intro to it.

 

Then again, maybe we want to force you to watch a cutscene over and over so you can get a feeling for what it's like debugging one!

 

-Akari

[EnderAndrew]

Thanks as always for great info, Akari.

[Opus131]

Yeah... what you saw there in the Arena was a certain 'delay' that you had to wait through before you could start skipping over the dialog nodes quickly.  That delay was the time necessary to set up a lot of things via script in order for the arena to work right.  To keep you from breaking the arena, they keep you from skipping over certain key nodes, or skipping too quickly, until the stage has been set.  While it seems to tie in with the voice-over, it's actually not connected.  It was just an issue of 'necessary delay so that things work'.

 

There will be places in KotOR2 where you run into some of the same things unfortunately.  It's something we can't get around in the engine.  On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that we'll be more careful in forcing you to undergo a cutscene over and over again.  I found the opening to the arena tedious as well, especially since I kept dying and having to do it over and over, and couldn't just skip over the intro to it.   

 

Then again, maybe we want to force you to watch a cutscene over and over so you can get a feeling for what it's like debugging one!

 

-Akari

That would also explain why certain cinematics were only partially skippable.

 

Now, i don't mind unskippable cinematics, as long as they aren't placed right before a difficoult battle.

 

Since apparently you can't make cinematics skippable, how about an autosave right after the cinematic ?!?

 

That way we don't need to whatch the thing over if we get gang raped by the enemy, or save us the pains to try to save as quick as possible right after the cinematic ends.

 

It wouldn't need to be done on all of them, just the most important ones.

 

Either that, or just allow for some sort of delay beetween the cinematic and the beginning of a battle.

 

Hell, could it be possible to save right during a cinematic ?!?

 

Better yet, how about being able to go to the menu right in the middle of it ?!? (I hated when i couldn't reload a saved game during a cinematic).

 

And since you are at it, how about being able to reatch the menu (or just quick load) right during the death cinematic ?!?

 

I hated it that everytime i died i had to wait for the death animation to end and be transported automatically on the menu when all i wanted to do was hit quick load and try again... (god knows how many times i tried to quick load before the beginning of the death animation and freeze the game in the process... :ph34r: )

[EnderAndrew]

Certain games give you the option of reloading or retrying before kicking you to the main menu.

[Dead Skin Mask]

Internally, we call the movies (like the ships taking off and landing in KotOR1. Shots of Taris getting blown up, etc) 'rendered movies'.

I personally hope Obsidian keeps those "rendered movies" short and to the point like Bioware did. The last thing in the world I want to do is play through a FF/MGS2/Xenosaga game where the "rendered movies" are a substitute for gameplay. Now if they want to splurge at the very end of the game with a end all "rendered movie" showing what happened to the galaxy, npcs, ect. ect. thats fine with me because if I don't like it I can just turn off my Xbox. Actually I like the idea of a big movie at the end (and by big movie I mean nothing longer then 8 mins) kinda like the old school Phantasy Star series I-III. (The Phanstay Star series didn't actually have "rendered movies" at the end of them but if you've played through the series you get my point.)

 

By the way I am not trying to insult any hardcore FF/MGS2/Xenosaga fans in these forums they are just not my cup of tea. I am more of a Morrowind type of RPG fan less movies more content and action. As they say each to their own! B)

 

 

Cheers!

[Raven]

Internally, we call the movies (like the ships taking off and landing in KotOR1. Shots of Taris getting blown up, etc) 'rendered movies'.

I personally hope Obsidian keeps those "rendered movies" short and to the point like Bioware did. The last thing in the world I want to do is play through a FF/MGS2/Xenosaga game where the "rendered movies" are a substitute for gameplay. Now if they want to splurge at the very end of the game with a end all "rendered movie" showing what happened to the galaxy, npcs, ect. ect. thats fine with me because if I don't like it I can just turn off my Xbox. Actually I like the idea of a big movie at the end (and by big movie I mean nothing longer then 8 mins) kinda like the old school Phantasy Star series I-III. B)

 

 

Cheers!

or a 30 sec 'rendered movie' like moh

[Judge Hades]

I am not a cutscene lover. I just want to play the game. If I want to see a movie I'll put one in the DVD.

[Raven]

I am not a cutscene lover. I just want to play the game. If I want to see a movie I'll put one in the DVD.

yeah, but some cutscenes advance the story, which kotors cutscenes were crap, and so was the story. im not saying that you need cutscenes, but they are pretty cool. the best cutscenes are Medal of honor and Dark forces 2. i loved those

[Iolo]

Don't need cutscenes. They take away time that could be spent on other aspects of the game, especially since they are usually not using the in game engine. Don't see a need. Advance the story through the characters in the stories, not through non interactive pretty cutscenes.

[EnderAndrew]

I'd like a decent cut-scene for the end of the game.

 

KOTOR was a great game, but the end left a lot to be desired.

[Akari]

Since apparently you can't make cinematics skippable, how about an autosave right after the cinematic ?!?

 

I like that idea. I'll bring it up.

 

The requests for menus and stuff wouldn't work. The engine doesn't support bringing up the menus while in the middle of a dialog.

 

And since you are at it, how about being able to reatch the menu (or just quick load) right during the death cinematic ?!?

 

On my TODO list is: Add an option to go straight to the Load Game screen when you die. While I'm thinking about it, would you also like a button on the 'End Game' panel that lets you just launch the most recent save, rather than going back to the Load Game panel?

 

-Akari

[Iolo]

I'd like a decent cut-scene for the end of the game.

 

KOTOR was a great game, but the end left a lot to be desired.

 

Okay on that one I'd agree. Beginning of game and end of game cutscenes work well. In between, it should be no cutscenes with the storyline told purely through the characters in the game and the player's actions. Cutscenes sometimes show things happening that I would not have done if I had controlled my character during that scene instead, for instead.

[Raven]

Okay on that one I'd agree. Beginning of game and end of game cutscenes work well. In between, it should be no cutscenes with the storyline told purely through the characters in the game and the player's actions. Cutscenes sometimes show things happening that I would not have done if I had controlled my character during that scene instead, for instead.

how bout a beginning cutscene, which introduces the game, a middle cutscene, the big plot twist, and an end cutscene, which is the end.