Help me with a melee party build!

[Drakkon]

So I'm starting over for the 8th time and getting into the flow of what classes I like most. Last game I did rogue main, priest ,cipher ,druid ,chanter ,ranger. Rogue felt strong but kinda pointless and I understand all the flak it gets now. Having all that damage is overkill for most enemies and the ones it matter for can kill you with a fart anyways.

So for this run I want to do a melee party. I always like melee in rpgs and usually try full melee parties when it's practical. I have most the classes decided just need some tweaks and help on some builds. I'm going to be using all companions since last game i only used 2 and the game felt pretty empty with only kana and hirv talking occasionally.

Durance -cause hell yeah priest buffs! last game I just gave priest hatchet and shield with dex int items. Didn't really think of much else they needed unless you guys can suggest better

Hirivais - cause I regret never taking a druid till just last game! If I didn't hate druids thematically I would make a druid main cause they are so damn fun in this game. Did the same thing gear wise as the priest

Pallegina - main tank I'm thinking. Just throw her at something big and bad and toss out buffs or heals as needed while soaking up damage while doing some decent with sworn enemy+FoD? Her heals also free up my priest to stack up more buffs. Most games I have to decided on either healing or buffing with my priest.I used kana as my main tank last game and he did alright but couldn't take too much focused fire or tough bosses 1on1. So this time I figure use 1hand and shield for tough fights and either dual wield or 2handed for everything else? Not sure really what weapons or gear would be good for her.

Kana - extremely boring to play but I will have enough micromanaging to do with my other classes so it generally works out. I just put heavy armor and hatchet on him last game. Lots of hatchets on my characters.......

Now my next two spots I cannot figure out who to play. I wanted a melee wizard and barbarian but not sure if barbarian is even worth the hassle. I always get unimpressed with barbs before getting them very high and they seem pretty useless for aoe when other classes like druid or chanter can do it better. Might not even use dragon thrashed on chanter so barb can feel like it's useful. Only reason I wanted one is because I really haven't played one to their fullest? Could do a fighter but waiting 13 levels to get charge is just annoying. Also trying to figure out how to build one is an absolute damn nightmare. Like what it better for them dual sabres? St Ydwens seem like it would be insane on them. What about unlabored blade + abydons? Those are different weapon class but both mythic. Tidefall seems kinda useless for this team. Rumbald could be useful with the prone. What about gear? Just thinking about the weapons and not to mention what stats to give a barb makes me want to pull my hair out! So it's either make my own or just use mahena.

Last is wizard and I want it as a melee wizard. I kinda hate ranged fireball slinging pansies. My favorite classes in baldurs gate were fight mages and blades! I used a melee cipher last game and he was decent but wizard seems like it would be way stronger. Cipher plays like cast spell wack enemy a couple times cast again and repeat. Wizard just buffs up and ends anything in it's way from what I can tell. Mostly I want to know what gear would best work for melee wizard? armor boots helms etc. Also what about weapons? I know the summon staff and lance are great but I figure around 12 superb durganized weapons would pull ahead. So what weapons would work best for a melee wiz? Or do you just stick with summoned ones?

 

 

[draego]

For barb you can always go against the archetype and do barb tank/off tank weapon/shield that specializes in debfuff instead of a two handed damage archetype. I did a non min max version of the below build as main and it was fun. I also chose weapons with CC abilities because the CC will apply with carnage hits as well so you can stun or prone groups of enemies within carnage range, to further lean into the barb as debuff/cc person instead of damage person.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by draego

[Drakkon]

I don't want to do a barb tank cause that's what I have pallegina and kana for.  Also I don't like the idea of barb tanks thematically. Kind of how I don't like greatsword rogues.

[Boeroer]

Most fun with a Barb I had with this build:

Or what about a monk? Monk is the strongest melee class in my opinion. 

Melee wizard is fine. You goal should be Citzal's Spirit Lance. 

[Drakkon]

Biggest problem with firebrand build is I cannot get belt for my barb cause the deadfire expansion or whatever pack it is isn't available for PS4 which is what I play on. I could still do it of course, just not as many firebrands. Also I remember reading in one of your older posts that soulbound weapons were the best because of their procs with carnage. Is your opinion different now?

 

I could go with monk just need a good DPS build for it. Or how to build the NPC one since not sure which class I'll make my main yet.

 

I know about citzals lance, but is it better than durganized weapons still? Like drawn in spring+ unlabored blade vs the lance? Also what gear?

Edited December 15, 2019 by Drakkon

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Drakkon said:

Also I remember reading in one of your older posts that soulbound weapons were the best because of their procs with carnage. Is your opinion different now?

 

I could go with monk just need a good DPS build for it. Or how to build the NPC one since not sure which class I'll make my main yet.

I'm pretty sure I never said that about soulbound weapons on Barbs. What I might have said is that their disadvantages (no lash, no Durgan steel) can sometimes be less significant on a Barb because of Frenzy/Bloodlust/Blood Thirst and that they will proc their stuff more often because of Carnage. So if you want to use a soulbound then a Barb is often the best pick. But that doesn't mean that soulbounds are the best choice for Barbs. 

Tidefall is very good on Barbs, so is Hours of St. Rumbalt, Tall Grass, Edge of Reason, We Toki, Godansthunyr, Cladhaliath (stunning) and others. General rule of thumb: if it has an on-hit or on-crit effect like draining or stunning and so on - or a proc chance - it's good for Barbs. Carnage has a -10 ACC malus so people think you can't crit often with it. But what they miss is that it gets +1 ACC per level which means that at lvl 10 it has the same ACC as you main attack. And from that point on it will even have better ACC. If you take Accurate Carnage this point can already be reached at lvl 5. So from mid to late game you will actually crit quite often with Carnage. Especially if you lower enemies' defenses with some nasty spells like Miasma and Cursed of Blackened Sight etc. first. 

The best dps choice is Tidefall. St. Rumbalt is a great mix of CC+dps. Tall Grass/pike is nice because you can stay safe behind the front line which is good in the early game because Barbs tend to be very squishy in the early game (gets a lot better with some levels). Against vessels there's nothing better than St. Ydwen's Redeemer (if you took Blood Thirst). The destroy-vessel proc triggers Blood Thirst and works with Carnage.

There are some good monk builds in the build list.

Melee Wizard: Spirit Lance is always best in my opinion. The AoE and the very high base damage are too strong. Especially if you can pull together several enemies with Pull of Eora or with a tank so that you can hit a lot of enemies with the AoE. Drawn in Spring is a very good weapon and better in 1:1 situations once it's fully enchanted - but as soon as you can hit more than one enemy the Lance would be my pick. Also I feel it's a bit of a waste to give Drawn in Spring to a Wizard. Drawn in Spring works best with highest MIG and lowish INT  Other gear for melee wizard with Lance: everything that gives you dmg bonuses (via MIG etc.), attack speed and INT/AoE size.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[summatsupeer]

Durance - I like to put Hand and Key armour on him to try and make sure he can cast the Prayer to make everyone immune since his Dex isn't great. His weapons are mostly coordinating / debuffing as not typically attacking them.

Hirivais - Really good with a Spirit shift build. Use spells to prepare then send him in, late game he swings fast and hard (I saw >150 per hit including lash).  Natures Mark, Taste of the Hunt, Returning Storm, Form of the Delgeman are the spells I select as per encounter, casting FotD > RS > NM then decide if time is to go into spirit shift or if need more spells first.  Pretty funny when rogues etc dash past front line to him only to get smacked down in a few swings.

Pallegina - Heavy Tank with shield like you say, I like Coordinating weapons to help buff the damage dealers since won't be taking lots of damage abilities/talents.  I like a 2 hander such as a Estoc as 2nd weapon since typically when i'd have her switch its to take down a "boss" with high DR.

Kana - Dragon Thrashed build is great and I found it works well with the Barb.  Kana chips away and debuffs/buffs as needed setting up the barb.  Fire scrolls + enchanted weapon and maybe a extra range 2 hander so as a 2nd liner able to hit over the front line in tight areas, especially early as he will be squishy.  Stick Combusting Wounds on top and everything melts that isn't (practically) immune to fire.  Just make sure to setup the chants correctly so they stack to see the true power.

Barbarian - 2 hander with Blood Thirst is fun and simple. Boeroer's gone into detail on weapons already so i'll just say that a build similar to the Cauterizer can still work great without Firebrand. I did a death godlike and didn't go fire focused.  Just try to maximize damage so something in carnage area dies after being chipped away by the group.  Try to attack the "strong" enemies with the barb and let carnage hit the weak ones so you really hurt the strong enemy before all the squishy ones are dead.

Wizard - I typically prefer Druid/Ciphers so i've never done a melee wizard. I will leave that to others though it does sound interesting.

The main thing I would point out is that you have nothing to really hit enemy wizards/archers/gunners.  Even with good deflection and DR you can't really tank some of the groups for long (won't spoil with specifics).  I'd look at your setup spells from Druid/Wizard and see if you can blind or just kill them with ranged spells before going into melee mode.  Most movement abilities come at higher levels to get to them with a melee assuming you won't be able to just run at them past enemy melee. In this group i'd prefer to have the Barb hacking through the enemy from the frontline than jumping into there backline.  I think the melee wizard and Hirivais are doing the same job so i'd only have one of them in my group at a time and instead have a Fighter/Monk who could front line whilst spells are cast then dive there damage dealers.

I agree with @Boeroer to that a monk is probably the best Melee class, especially in the early game. I literally just finished my PC Monk run on PotD and was very fun, so much damage from a massive tank.  I'd avoided them before because I didn't like to micro casting Torment's Reach so much but I would just turn on/off the AI to do it when wanted.

[Boeroer]

Yes, monk is a very well rounded package: sturdy, great AoE dmg, good single target dmg, speed, replenishablke resources (so more fun abilities to use per encounter) and so on.

But actually the most fun I had with a Monk was a melee/ranged hybrid one (although that might not be what the OP was looking for) :

 

[Boeroer]

11 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Hirivais - Really good with a Spirit shift build. Use spells to prepare then send him in, late game he swings fast and hard (I saw >150 per hit including lash).  Natures Mark, Taste of the Hunt, Returning Storm, Form of the Delgeman are the spells I select as per encounter, casting FotD > RS > NM then decide if time is to go into spirit shift or if need more spells first.  Pretty funny when rogues etc dash past front line to him only to get smacked down in a few swings.

Agree. Hiravias has a great Spiritshift form (Stelgaer) which is awesome for dps. At high levels (with Avenging Storm active and maxed Wildstrike + Wildstrike Belt) he can do more single target dps than a Rogue (while shifted) while at the same time do massive AoE-CC and- dmg with Relentless Storm and Plague of Insects and the like. Also great fun to play.

Only thing is: if you have a lot of micromanagement-intense characters like monks and shifting druids it can become too much. So I often put in a chanter or paladin or something into the mix who usually can function well without lots of micromanagement. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Boeroer

[summatsupeer]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Only thing is: if you have a lot of micromanagement-intense characters like monks and shiftng druids it can become too much to. So I often put in a chanter or paladin or something into the mix who usually can function well without lots of micromanagement. 

Very true. My PC Monk only had swift strikes and torments reach for active (was more retaliation/lash build) and I switched ai on to cast them when wanted, rest was passives/models.  Just read your witch doctor and sounds very cool and different from any monk build I've done.

I agree having a few "fire and forget" characters is advisable or every battle can take ages and gets repetitive quickly.  Fighter, paladin, ranger and chanter are my go to fire and forget classes.  I tend to keep them simple with passives and modal abilities rather than trying to min/maxing every character in the group.

Edited December 18, 2019 by summatsupeer

[Boeroer]

The Long Pain is one of the best weapons in PoE.  The single target dps is quite insane.