Help with a ranger multiclass

[Arranvin]

Hello all. I backed the game but have only dabbled in it, I'm yet to complete a playthrough. I'm waiting on the Ultimate edition being available on consoles, quite fancy it on the Switch if they manage to do a decent port.

 

Anyway, in the meantime I'd like to do some theorycrafting. Ranger is my favourite class, I really like having the animal companion. I loved playing a ranger in Pillars 1. However, from what I've seen of high level ranger abilities, it looks like more fun and more effective to multiclass rather than go single class. The fact that high level abilities eat up the same resource as the lower level ones turns me off since I found that the opportunity cost meant that I didn't use the high level abilities often. So, instead I fancy a multiclass.

 

My aim for the character is high ranged dps with a bow (either hunting or war, don't want firearms, I'll leave them for Maia) with good survivability (mainly through evading attacks but if I'm cornered I'd like to be able to at least hold my own in melee) and a little crowd control. I quite fancy a seer, but I've played a bit as a scout and also really enjoyed that, the damage output was very satisfying. As a side note, I'm only going to play on Veteran or normal so I'm looking for effective but not overpowered builds, I don't want to optimise to the point where the game loses any challenge. 

 

I quite like both the base ranger and the arcane archer. I've been contemplating an arcane archer/rogue scout with Frostseeker or Essence Interrupter, and a ranger/ascendant seer with St Omaku's mercy. What do you guys think? Any tips? And does anyone know if the Arcane Archer accuracy bug was ever fixed?

Thanks

[Blunderboss]

To play Arcane Archer you probably want to use Community Patch as it fixes some scalling issues,also arcane archer is best used with firearm Kitchen Stove+Wild Barrage upgrade at least for your Imbue Spells because Wild Barrage+driving flight means you will be launching 4 Imbue Spells instead of one.

However you only need Kitchen stove for launching imbued fireballs so use it in secondary weapon set and for main weapon just use Essence Interrupter(enchant it so all summons are friendly before using it)  it’s very good 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Blunderboss

[Arranvin]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm planning on playing on console once it's eventually released so I won't have access to the community patch. Is Arcane archer still competitive against a crit focused ranger/ascendant using St Omaku's Mercy without the community patch?

[Blunderboss]

It’s hard to compete with ciphers in usefulness especially if you pick Beguiler. But since you gonna be playing on Veteran Arcane Archer without patch will be good enough you can look up Boeroers build for Arcane Archer/ Paladin it is really decent, another interesting build for Arcane Archer is Wildrhymer AA/Beckoner it’s just one man army that can flood the board with summons and nuke enemies with AoE spells mainly Imbued Fireball and Eld Nary also puts all the unused scrolls to good use since you will have maxed arcana. Honestly on veteran any build you can think off will be decent since you will over level everything so hard and enemies won’t even have PoTD buffs from mid game you will be destroying everything and you get to mid game by doing non combat quests in neketaka.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Blunderboss

[thelee]

6 hours ago, Arranvin said:

a ranger/ascendant seer with St Omaku's mercy

maybe it's just me, but i haven't had a great time mixing ciphers in with ranged builds - the dps output is much lower than melee (not to mention pierce is the most common immunity, which eliminates a huge chunk of ranged weapons in some fights), and especially so for rangers where a lot of your dps is supposed to come from your pet (you don't get credit for damage your pet does for focus gen). this is a worse problem for ascendant where you really want to hit max focus as often as possible.

in addition, due to how your focus pool works, multiclassing an ascendant isn't really effective unless you have a priest backup. i know you said you don't care too much about min-maxing, but I think this is a particularly significant gimp of the cipher:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/cipher

full quote for context, last paragraph is most important (emphasis added):

Quote

Sidebar: maximizing Ascended
With high intellect, light armor, and a modest dexterity, Ascended lasts long enough to let you get off three medium-speed cipher powers, maybe four or five if you're particularly fast or are using faster-speed cipher powers.

For a level 20 single-class cipher, you'll have 275 maximum focus, but you'll be able to use four-ish AL8 or AL9 powers, which means you effectively have a maximum focus of between 320 to 360. Essentially, you multiplied your focus generation by 1.16x to 1.3x. Pretty good, and you use these at +3 PL. The downside, of course, being that you have to wait to hit maximum focus first, which can be a downside if you need a power used right now.

However, to truly extract a lot of efficiency out of Ascended, you should pair with a priest who can cast Salvation of Time. Each cast of that spell adds +10s to buffs. Cast it twice to get a ~40s Ascended, and if all you did was use AL9 abilities you can have around 630 effective focus, which is an incredible gain of efficiency. Not to mention no other caster class in the game can spam AL9 spells so nonstop.

Note however that because your maximum focus depends on your character level but what abilities you have access to is dependent on your power level, a multiclass ascendant will have a harder time getting as much efficiency out of ascended. I.E. a level 20 multiclass cipher tops out at AL7 powers and at four-ish casts they only barely exceed their innate maximum focus. You basically need to be a mystic (priest/cipher) for an in-built Salvation of Time combo, or you need to get a lot of assist in dealing weapon damage in order to make up for the reduced efficiency of the ascended status.

A ranger won't get enough of a huge boost in dealing weapon damage I think to make the significantly reduced ascendant efficiency worth it, IMO.

 

Have you considered psion or beguiler? A ranger will be better than others in avoiding damage (good for psion) and for spam interrupt it won't matter as much that you'll be whacking your pet by accident.

Edited October 29, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

I still have great fun with a Trickster/Sharpshooter with Watershaper's Focus. Max INT, stealth, Driving Flight. It's in the build list with the name "The Deep Leap".

Lure enemies to a spot with Dazzling Lights and then blast them with Watershaper's Focus (includes 2 AoE jumps). It's not as powerful as it used to be (enchantment of the rod got nerfed) bit still plenty strong. Plays like an assassin. Also works with Arcane Archer/whatever Rogue subclass. 

Another option is Sharpshooter/Streetfighter with dual hand mortars (+modal). Enormous AoE dps. 

Another very strong thing is single class ranger with Whirling Strikes - especially with Fire in the Hole in the Offhand.

By the way it isn't the Arcane Archer's accuracy but the Penetration (with the imbue abilities) that is an issue. You can use the community patch to fix that (see my signature).

For me, Beguiler is the strongest Cipher subclass. 

Check out Takedown Combo + Disintegrate. The +100% dmg bonus work with the DoT-ticks and doesn't get removed by them(!). It gives Disintegrate a +100% dmg bonus as long as it lasts (may be shorter than Disintegrate's duration because the Animal Companion's INT is not great) which is pretty crazy. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[thelee]

37 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Check out Takedown Combo + Disintegrate. The +100% dmg bonus work with the DoT-ticks and doesn't get removed by them(!). It gives Disintegrate a +100% dmg bonus as long as it lasts (may be shorter than Disintegrate's duration because the Animal Companion's INT is not great) which is pretty crazy. 

Oh yeah, this is a solid combo. You can also use soul ignition as a weaker version of this combo early on, so it's not just a late game interaction. As a side note, cipher DoTs work well predators sense (though with takedown combo you don't want your pet attacking and dispelling the combo).

If you're going for a melee cipher/ranger setup you could also maybe get some mileage out of soul annihilation as a sort of finisher with takedown combo.

Edited October 29, 2019 by thelee

[Powerotti]

Ghost hearth/ascendant (or beguiller, if one wants to avoid ascend/not ascend stages) is quite good with st omaku or veilpiercer bow. It have one of the best crit chance, so recovery skip happens frequently and fills focus nice (not as nice as thunderous report, but its 1/encounter). Just shower enemies with arrows, ascend, hit takedown combo with dots or some CC and repeat when "descend". Engagement immune pet can quickly jump in, takedown enemy and retreat safely, so there is no need for any pet abilities.

 

[Kaylon]

Arcane Archer/cipher (no subclass) with Frostseeker (and Essence Interrupter with modal) is really great. The cipher will add more damage/accuracy/defenses/penetration, as well as plenty of buffs for your pet. With your accuracy (+ ability to debuff enemies deflection) Frostseeker will proc like crazy  and the AOE also contributes to your focus generation (allowing you to cast spells at leisure).  

[Arranvin]

Thanks for all the replies guys, you've given me lots to think about! I hadn't considered Beguiler before, but it looks good, as does the regular cipher. I don't think that I'd enjoy the nature of Psion. What do you guys think about Soul Blade? I know that it's not a natural fit for a ranged char but I'm wondering if the discount on shred powers and having Soul Annihilation as a last resort should he get cornered seems like it might be worth considering. 

[Blunderboss]

Soulblade is only good for multiclassing cipher with other melee class. By default Beguiler is miles better than anything else, you can build Ascendants to be really really good but that requires some meta gaming and help from other classes. Issue with Psion is ... Beguiller. Beguilers can build tons of focus just by using spells that cost focus basically giving them infinite focus thus making Psions very useless. Don’t think vanilla ciphers are ever worth it.

[thelee]

6 hours ago, Blunderboss said:

Beguilers can build tons of focus just by using spells that cost focus basically giving them infinite focus thus making Psions very useless.

You have to use spells that beguilers use, which is not a restriction on psions. Psions also get a unique interrupt spell.

Beguilers are very good, but they're not strictly better than the other subclasses.

[Blunderboss]

Well Beguilers only “have to” use deception spells first so they generate focus and then they can spend that focus on whatever spells they want. Also it helps a lot that Deception spells are the good ones that you always want to cast at the start of the combat .

Imo to even consider playing Psion you need to use Community Patch as its horrible in base game. With Community Patch i guess psion is salvageable for caster multiclasses, but then you most likely dont want to have caster+caster multiclass because of action economy. 

Psions also lose Soul Whip which means they dont get free focus from things like preloaded firearms or thunderous raport, on the other hand beguilers can completely defy fundamentals of cipher ( need to use weapons to build focus) but can still use it when the situation is right for even more focus and more spell casts

Edited October 31, 2019 by Blunderboss

[Elric Galad]

Although I agree with the opinion that Psion is not worth considering without Community Patch, I think that people to to overvalue "best case scenario" when choosing a build. Even Boeroer do this by repeatedly posting videos about his Dual Mortars vs packed Rotten Zombies .

Psion has the most stable floor value of all Ciphers when you face foes that can't be hit or reliably or aren't good targets for Deception spells.

[Blunderboss]

7 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Psion has the most stable floor value of all Ciphers when you face foes that can't be hit or reliably or aren't good targets for Deception spells.

In these cases Ascendant is far superior because you can ascend via self empower and SoT your ascendant while he Ancestor Memory the priest = win.

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Blunderboss said:

In these cases Ascendant is far superior because you can ascend via self empower and SoT your ascendant while he Ancestor Memory the priest = win.

You need a priest for this.
And it doesn't work against debuffing foes.
Priest = win almost by itself in this situation anyway (BDD + SoT + whatever source of Brillant, such as Robe of the Weyc)

[Blunderboss]

Fair point. Honestly i never played ascendant without a priest in my party, synergy is so good that one should always bring a priest if going with Ascendant. 

In general since you can have 5 party members with 2 classes on each of them i only played party without priest once, and that playtrough was specificaly no priest playtrough 

Anyway since OP will play on console without mods i would not recomend psion and just roll with beguiler or ascendant

Edited October 31, 2019 by Blunderboss

[thelee]

5 hours ago, Blunderboss said:

but then you most likely dont want to have caster+caster multiclass because of action economy

psions are actually amazing for caster-cipher multiclass because they don't have the same constraints on action economy. other caster-cipher multiclasses you have to do something to actively generate focus. a caster-psion can be a caster and then all of a sudden they can use some cipher powers when needed. i would actually say most caster-cipher multiclasses are underwhelming and psion is the only good one (said as someone who has rolled two different mystics).

 

edit - i would concede though with the particulars of psion focus generation and the party-unfriendly interrupt spell they have that it is not a cipher subclass for any player looking for an "easy in". It is probably more micromanagement intensive, which may not play well for console.

Edited October 31, 2019 by thelee

[Blunderboss]

well whole purpose of psion subclass is to be multiclassed with casters however i honestly dont find them good enough even for that in base game it gets a bit better with community patch 

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

 I think that people to to overvalue "best case scenario" when choosing a build. Even Boeroer do this by repeatedly posting videos about his Dual Mortars vs packed Rotten Zombies .
 

That's because every case is the best case with a mortar monk.