Chanter help - skald?

[jorill]

For whatever I got it into my head I wanted to do a build that spammed offensive chanter invocations (lighting, paralyze, etc early, frost later). This Les me to look at skalds, and I downloaded the true skald mod to make skalds a bit more usable but not op.

Where I am stuck is deciding what multi-class and weapon setup would be the best way to ensure this character gets reliable crits in combat to feed the invocations without being too vulnerable (this will likely be 1 of 2 front liners, eder being the other). Im particularly torn on whether 1handed is worth it over dw, it reads like it should be better but 1h just feels so slow in comparison - even in only 20% armor.

Bezerker/modwyr felt like a natural fit, but I tried playesting some and just couldn't keep the character alive on the front lines, am I building wrong? Is there a better combo?

I'm on potd/upscale all/deadly deadfire. Only other mod is community patch.

[Powerotti]

I tested war caller devoted/skald with single handed sun and moon - clear out scored 30 crits, but got only one phrase. There must be some kind of restriction, so you can't get more than one at a time. I think monk with swift flurry/HBD will work simillar (but didn't tested this). In this case you want to get as much atkspd, as possible, to make it work. in this case the best options would be:

 

For weapons:

sun and moon - two chances for crit with one blow, 10 more acc to fire roll with ring of focused flames (single handed for better acc and hit-to-crit)

ranning's wrath - 9 more acc, +10% aspd (single handed for better acc and hit-to-crit)

WotEP - aoe damage (even if only one phrase can be aquired from one blow, you hit more targets, so more hit rolls=better chance to crit), retaliation on being missed that can do crits and generate phrase

 

For classes:

fighter - hit-to-crit bonuse from disciplined strikes, clear out is guaranted phrase with enough enemies and weapon modal can debuf several targets at once, more sturdy character, godd acc with conqueror stance

ranger - chanter buffs makes animal companion more tanky, best acc

monk - SF/HBD synergize with crits giving solid dps (and maybe more phrases?)

rogue, streetfighter - great aspd, so with enough acc/hit-to-crit you get fastest phrases generation and good weapon dps, but also most fragile character

[Kaylon]

skald/monk with Scordeo's Edge: +20acc buff, long blade cascade buff and more criticals due to double hits.

[Wotcha]

Far easier is to just figure out a way to get Brilliant on your skald and call it a day. That’s going to be giving you an extra phrase every 6 seconds. You will be able to knock out 2-phrase invocations so frequently that you won’t really have much time to worry about your attack or crit rate. You’ll even be knocking out 4-phrase Eld Nary quite fast.

Note that Invocations interrupt your chanted phrase gen until your recovery completes, but the Brillant bonus phrases don’t pause. 

The real offensive benefit of Skald is the -1 phrase to offensive invocations, not the  50% extra phrase on crit. The occasional bonus phrase from crits is a minor perk relatively speaking. 

[Powerotti]

brilliant - 1phrase/6sec

skald crits - even 1phrase/1.2sec with solid build and eq, or much more if blade cascade triggers, like Kaylon said. But i wouldn't count for it, and use scordeo just to build adaptive stacks, then swich to sun and moon

[Wotcha]

16 minutes ago, Powerotti said:

brilliant - 1phrase/6sec

skald crits - even 1phrase/1.2sec with solid build and eq, or much more if blade cascade triggers, like Kaylon said. But i wouldn't count for it, and use scordeo just to build adaptive stacks, then swich to sun and moon

Keep in mind that you aren’t getting any weapon crit phrases during your Invocation recovery either, because it’s RECOVERY. Asymptotically that’s going to be your rate limiter. Even if you have infinite phrases all the time, you’re probably not going to be firing invocations more than once every 6 seconds or so if you’re wearing armor heavy enough to survive the front line.

[Powerotti]

Contenders armor have good protection and is faster than naked when using nalvi and abraham with maxed atheletics. Pair it with not felled... invocation and potion of ironskin or spiritshield and you are pretty tanky. With phrases generating do fast, most enemies will be paralyzed by at the sound of his voice... anyway. 

Besides that, you can use brilliant as assistance to weapon crits

Most of offensive invocations have 0,5 cast and 4sec recovery that is reduced by dex and aspd buffs, so why one would use them no more than every 6sec?

 

[Wotcha]

3 minutes ago, Powerotti said:

Contenders armor have good protection and is faster than naked when using nalvi and abraham with maxed atheletics. Pair it with not felled... invocation and potion of ironskin or spiritshield and you are pretty tanky. With phrases generating do fast, most enemies will be paralyzed by at the sound of his voice... anyway. 

Besides that, you can use brilliant as assistance to weapon crits

Most of offensive invocations have 0,5 cast and 4sec recovery that is reduced by dex and aspd buffs, so why one would use them no more than every 6sec?

 

Okay, if you assume you’re basically at 0% recovery then it’s every 4.5 seconds with infinite phrases. Let’s say you have 1.5 second attack+recovery, and crit 100% of the time, and you magically make that 50% crit to phrase check every time. That’s 6 seconds, plus the phrase every 6 seconds from brilliant, and you’re putting out the second 2-phrase invocation 6 seconds after the last one. With 100% crit rate and magic 100% phrase-to-crit rate. With more plausible crit rates and no magic 100% crit to phrase conversion, you’re reasonably likely to just get your second phrase from chanting or the next Brilliant pulse by the time you get another bonus phrase.  So unless you’re really really trying to speed up those more expensive invocations instead of spamming the cheap ones, there’s not that much point in worrying about weapon crits. 

[Boeroer]

No too long ago I was able to generate more phrases with Clear Out and Sun and Moon on a Black Jacket/Skald than I could spend. 

I didn't try Whispers otEP since they changed the AoE mechanic. The cone transports on-hit effects and afflictions and now also triggers a cone on every Clear Out hit roll and generates a ton of crits that way if enough enemies can be hit. Maye the cone now works as well for the Skald's mechanic?

Did they really cap the phrase gain per attack execution?

@Kaylon's suggestion works very well, too. I also tried this some time ago. If you focus on the low deflection targets and use Enduring Dance and Stunning Surge (drops deflection) and manage to cast Ben Fidel's Neck (stacks with all afflictions) first you can not only produce lots of crits an phrases but also often kill an enemy with one attack (because it produces so many follow-ups with Swift Flurry). Scordeo's Edge is really OP. Adaptive and Blade Cascade are two of the best enchantments in the game - and they are on one single weapon...

[Winterheart]

Do crits from riposte have a chance to give a phrase as well? I am starting to consider a new playthrough with a Trickster/Skald

Edited August 20, 2019 by Winterheart

[jorill]

Thanks to everyone for responding. A few follow ups!

1. Just focusing on the weapon/crit side of this, if I'm trying to decide between Fighter and Monk, it looks the real decision point is between Discipline Strike/Clear Out vs Swift Flurry/HBD? 

2. Sounds like Sun/Moon is the best weapon to use until Scordero's Edge, and at that point, it seems like I should dual wield? Before hand is it better to just go 1h with Sun/Moon?

3. @Boeror - What was the setup you were using with Black Jacket that helped in the crit generation?

4. Focusing beyond just weapon/crit side, would going Fighter (Tactician) be the best setup because of access to Brilliant (especially early/mid game)?

[Boeroer]

The Fighter subclass in general doesn't really matter since none of them makes a difference when it comes to crit chance. But I used Black Jacket for following reasons:

With 0 switching recovery  I can switch weapon after every Clear Out without slowdown. That allows me (for example) to do a Clear Out with a Morning Star (+modal), then a Club and then a Flail. And all enemies in range suffer from -25 Fortitude, Reflex and Will.

The other synergy with Fighter/Skald and Clear Out I specifically used was that Body Blows from Morning Star (-25 Fortitude) applies to all enemies that get hit with Clear Out. I can then switch to Whispers otEP immediately and profit from +25 accuracy (so to speak) since Clear Out targets Fortitude, not Deflection. Add Ben Fidel's Neck and other debuffs and you will do a ton of crits.

Another ability that targets Fortitude and even has +10 Accuracy is Knockdown/Mule Kick. You can use that right from the beginning in combo with a Morning Star to generate more crits. You don't have to wait for Clear Out. That is what makes this combo so nice in my opinion. 

Another option is a Berserker/Skald, also with Morning Star. Not in an AoE but still very good: hit an enemy with Body Blows and then use Barbaric Smash (has high crit conversion especially if the Berserker is frenzied and also against near death enemies if he has Bloody Slaughter). Barbaric Smash does target Deflection - but with Brute Force it targets Fortitude if that's lower. And it's often lower with Body Blows applied.   

[Powerotti]

@Wotcha skald is more a full support build than damage dealer. Thanks to crit-phrases it can keep foes paralyzed and frightened all the time and summon weapons or something. Especially black jacket/skald with clear out and weapon modals, as Boeroer said.

"Magic" crit chance comes from conqueror stance, high per, scordeos edge upgrade, single handed style, potion of perfect aim, ring of prosperity, hearth orlan and disciplined strikes, and if you use WotEP or sun and moon to attack, chance to conversion is higher than 50%.

At the sound... invocation takes 2sec (25 dex, coral snuff, battered ysae, rapid casting, contenders armor) and paralyze for 7-8 base, so thats 6sec left. That's enough time to put 4 attacks and gain 2 or more phrases (excluding natural generation and brilliant) for next "at the sound...".

[Wotcha]

I suppose I see what you’re getting at. I guess my difference of opinion is that putting too much effort into crowd control is wasteful- most fights with a lot of enemies really only need them CC’d briefly until the weak-but-dangerous ones are easily dispatched, and then it’s a long slog to kill the harder targets.  My tool of choice for that is generally a blood mage chain casting Ninagauth’s Shadowflame, which achieves wide area CC along with significant wearing-down damage to speed things along.