Divine Retribution and Summons

[Torm51]

Anyone know if it still restores zeal if summons are downs?

[Elric Galad]

20 minutes ago, Torm51 said:

Anyone know if it still restores zeal if summons are downs?

Yes, it does.

It is actually the best reason to go Single Class Paladin.

[masterty66]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Yes, it does.

It is actually the best reason to go Single Class Paladin.

I assume the summon has to actually die and not just unsummon in order for it to work? 

[Boeroer]

Correct

[Torm51]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Yes, it does.

It is actually the best reason to go Single Class Paladin.

Ya I have this AOE fire nuker in mind with reducing the negative affects of sacred immolation through void ring good resolve and Shieldbearers LoH.  Also including Light of Pure Zeal.  It seems too zeal intensive though.  There comes in Divine Ret...was thinking have my chanter summoning the weak skeletons.  I’ll post my results if I get that far (PoTD/Ironman run).  Wish there was a test build arena lol

Edited August 7, 2019 by Torm51

[Elric Galad]

9 hours ago, Torm51 said:

Ya I have this AOE fire nuker in mind with reducing the negative affects of sacred immolation through void ring good resolve and Shieldbearers LoH.  Also including Light of Pure Zeal.  It seems too zeal intensive though.  There comes in Divine Ret...was thinking have my chanter summoning the weak skeletons.  I’ll post my results if I get that far (PoTD/Ironman run).  Wish there was a test build arena lol

Yes, but is sacred immolation good enough as AoE DPS compared to any other AoE a Multiclass can bring to the table with much less inconvenience ? I doubt so.

Light of pure zeal is good enough as a panic button or situational DPS.

I also like SC paldin ability to apply Nimble instantly for a long duration on any party member and of course the auto rez just in case.

With an Infinite zeal supply, spamming garrote (DoT loves PL) or White Flames should be good enough. Sacred Immolation seems too much of a hassle in comparaison.

[Tenray]

SC paladin fighting with Dire Talon let you summon really weak wurms on crit which can give you almost instantly 6 zeal back, when they get downed.

[Torm51]

5 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Yes, but is sacred immolation good enough as AoE DPS compared to any other AoE a Multiclass can bring to the table with much less inconvenience ? I doubt so.

Light of pure zeal is good enough as a panic button or situational DPS.

I also like SC paldin ability to apply Nimble instantly for a long duration on any party member and of course the auto rez just in case.

With an Infinite zeal supply, spamming garrote (DoT loves PL) or White Flames should be good enough. Sacred Immolation seems too much of a hassle in comparaison.

True, that said maybe it depends on group comp? Right now my single target DPS is nuts, Scout Maiya and Howler Konstenten (with Sabre’s for slash damage and the unarmed training for crush) with the + 40% damage to Glorious Bescon  absolute annihilate targets. My other 3 party members are Battlemage Aloth (cc+ good melee damage with Concelhauts staff or Blights waiting for Citzels Lance) could go for more AOE with him and Buff Xoti (she has good AOE with the priest seals)...so with that comp  more AOE from SI could be worth it? Like I said wish I had a test arena.

 

PS just got Hastening Exhortation and you said you get the nimble upgrade why? I was thinking of specking out of it. Right now all 5 Dex does is reduce cast and attack speeds by about .4.  It is a Dex inspiration though..

[Elric Galad]

15% action speed and a bit of reflex never hurts, especially with such a long duration in my opinion (unless you play TB which isn't balances enough for my taste).

But the best part is 100% movement speed from tier 2 dex inspiration. It sounds really convenient for backrow character such as Cipher, Druid or Priest or offensive frontliner such as Fighter or Rogue, or even Paladin himself. All these classes have few Access to Dex inspirations and their mobility abilities (if any) cost ressources. 

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Tenray said:

SC paladin fighting with Dire Talon let you summon really weak wurms on crit which can give you almost instantly 6 zeal back, when they get downed.

Oh, nice. Never thought about that combo. Using Essence Interrupter also is funny: eventually geting zeal from killing the enemy (Virtuous Triumph) AND getting zeal from the transformed enemy (summon) that gets killed. But of course the bow can be used by any party member to profit from the latter. So Beckoner/Berserker with Grave Calling (kill your skeletons and turn them into imps while they split into two lesser skeletons: three summons for one - cool), a bow user with Essence Interrupter and using Dire Talon on that Paladin should work really well. Nonstop summons and Zeal.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Boeroer

[masterty66]

Is there a max Zeal number you can reach or can you go over what you start combat with?

I'd think a SC Kind Wayfarer dual wielding Dire Talon and whatever else would be pretty nice. Steel Garrotte or Bleak Walker doing the same would also work but Kind Wayfarer maybe gets the most benefit for dual wielding since their heal procs twice.

[Boeroer]

You can't go over max zeal afsik (the number you start with). But if you spam SI and stuff all the time (e.g. giving every party member an exhortation and so on) you can spend your Zeal pretty quickly. 

Only thing with dual wielding Dire Talon is that it will then proc wurms less often. If you want to proc White Flames twice and still keep up good defenses then you can use a bashing shield (like Magran's Blessing).

 

[Torm51]

PS Light of Pure Zeal used to be vessel only for damage but it no longer specifies that in the tool tip.  Is it still vessel only? Still would be good if vessel only for damage against that enemy but also as an oh crap heal.  Nvm it does say vessel and spirit.  Still lots of those in game.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Torm51

[masterty66]

26 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You can't go over max zeal afsik (the number you start with). But if you spam SI and stuff all the time (e.g. giving every party member an exhortation and so on) you can spend your Zeal pretty quickly. 

Only thing with dual wielding Dire Talon is that it will then proc wurms less often. If you want to proc White Flames twice and still keep up good defenses then you can use a bashing shield (like Magran's Blessing).

 

That would make for a pretty tanky character as well. Just grabbing engagements all the time and proccing summons while being virtually unkillable thanks to Paladin defenses, shield, and white flames.

Sounds like a fun char.

[Torm51]

Ya agreed, I just don’t like how little engagement a SC paladin gets.  2 If you are a Shieldbearer of St. Elcga with a shield, or one if any other order with a shield.  If you have a weapon that grants engagement that’s 3 with a shieldbearer or 2 with others.  Good enough with another frontliner I guess.

[masterty66]

23 minutes ago, Torm51 said:

Ya agreed, I just don’t like how little engagement a SC paladin gets.  2 If you are a Shieldbearer of St. Elcga with a shield, or one if any other order with a shield.  If you have a weapon that grants engagement that’s 3 with a shieldbearer or 2 with others.  Good enough with another frontliner I guess.

True. I guess they're more like an off tank due to the limited engages. They would be providing a lot of aoe healing with White Flames spam and all the zeal you'd get from the summons though so even if enemies weren't engaging the Paladin they'd be providing value that way. 

Maybe the best setup would be that and some type of Fighter with Guardian Stance tying up all the enemies while the Paladin heals them with lay on hands and white flames and the rest of the party provides the dps. 

[Torm51]

29 minutes ago, masterty66 said:

True. I guess they're more like an off tank due to the limited engages. They would be providing a lot of aoe healing with White Flames spam and all the zeal you'd get from the summons though so even if enemies weren't engaging the Paladin they'd be providing value that way. 

Maybe the best setup would be that and some type of Fighter with Guardian Stance tying up all the enemies while the Paladin heals them with lay on hands and white flames and the rest of the party provides the dps. 

Ya definitely, or just another melee dps so far I’ve done that for more dps (PoTD). Just one “tank” whose value really is LoH and support abilities (until Divine Ret and Light of Pure Zeal...maybe Sacred Immolation due to the high single target dps the party has but it lacks AOE) with some engagement, the other tank is a Howler (Konstanten) high dps DW supported by the paladin. His deflection is low enough that even with only 1 to 2 engagement slots he keeps mobs on him and pounds them.

[Boeroer]

You can get more engagement slots with armor and weapons. E.g. spears can give you +1, Kapana Taga +2, Blackend Plate +1, Blackened Plate Helmet +1, Reckless Brigandine +1 and so on.

For example a Shieldbearer (+1) with Bronlars' Phalanx (+1) with Blackened set (+2) and  with a spear (+1) or with Kapana Taga (+2).

So... there are options.  

Edited August 8, 2019 by Boeroer

[masterty66]

28 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You can get more engagement slots with armor and weapons. E.g. spears can give you +1, Kapana Taga +2, Blackend Plate +1, Blackened Plate Helmet +1, Reckless Brigandine +1 and so on.

For example a Shieldbearer (+1) with Bronlars' Phalanx (+1) with Blackened set (+2) and  with a spear (+1) or with Kapana Taga (+2).

So... there are options.  

That'd be a hell of a lockdown character. Not much on the dps probably, but who needs that when you can lock down 5-6 enemies while the rest of your party kills at their leisure. Meanwhile with the Dire Talon you have zeal for days to cast lay on hands and exhortations constantly on party members.

 

 

[Boeroer]

Damage might come from the Sacred Immolation while you bind the enemies to you. Blackened Plate also has a healing aura. Togehter with Lay on Hands, Exalted Endurance and Voidward (and high RES) the self damage of SI should be manageable.

[Ivanfyodorovich]

SI self-dmg is high, but the dmg to enemies on a SC paladin is significant, especially with high INT. One trick is using blood ward or Old Siec chant (or combination). You will heal to full easily over the self-dmg. With enough RES and hostile effect reduction, you can limit it to a few ticks.

With Scion of Flame and Prestige at level 20, Divine Immolation it has 14.8 pen w/o other buffs and 32-48 dmg per tick at 21 MIG and infamous captain. You can cast it 3 times without empower, plus all of the zeal recovery methods already listed. If you stack up other fire PL gear (which there is a bounty), you can get those #s even higher. The healing from it is quite nice, as well. 

[Enoch]

14 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

SI self-dmg is high, but the dmg to enemies on a SC paladin is significant, especially with high INT. One trick is using blood ward or Old Siec chant (or combination). You will heal to full easily over the self-dmg. With enough RES and hostile effect reduction, you can limit it to a few ticks.

With Scion of Flame and Prestige at level 20, Divine Immolation it has 14.8 pen w/o other buffs and 32-48 dmg per tick at 21 MIG and infamous captain. You can cast it 3 times without empower, plus all of the zeal recovery methods already listed. If you stack up other fire PL gear (which there is a bounty), you can get those #s even higher. The healing from it is quite nice, as well. 

It's also just a great visual image-- Paladin walks up to his foes, say "Witness Righteousness!" and everyone around him melts like they just opened the Ark of the Covenant. 

[Boeroer]

Magran's Favor + Sun & Moon + Otto Starcat + Ring of Focused Flame = also nice with SI and FoD (e.g. Kind Wayfarer). Heal while dishing out Divine Immolation fire dmg and FoD dmg. I didn't test it lately but several abilities profit from Eternal Devotion's burning lash - maybe SI also does. Doubt it, but worth testing. Arcane Archer's imbue spells do profit for example. But I guess they are tagged as weapon attacks. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

Update.  So far Sacred Immolation is really good.  It is hitting for about 40-60 (60 or higher for Crits) at level 13.  When it is day time and I am getting higher fire PL levels from Sun and Moon even more so. My paladin drawing trash mobs around bosses in boss fights and just incinerating them.  Also the self damage is easy to mitigate with Voidward, good resolve and decent HP from the HP necklace and 2 Con Belt that gives me a second Second Wind (10 Con Base).  It also hits or crits on the regular without a super High Per Investment (13 base from left over char creation points+ 1 Galwain gift from Sayuka) and ring of focused flame.  So far so good, lefts see if I stay on the run long enough to get Light of Pure Zeal (PotD/ Ironman so I could lose).

[Torm51]

On 8/9/2019 at 9:15 AM, Boeroer said:

Magran's Favor + Sun & Moon + Otto Starcat + Ring of Focused Flame = also nice with SI and FoD (e.g. Kind Wayfarer). Heal while dishing out Divine Immolation fire dmg and FoD dmg. I didn't test it lately but several abilities profit from Eternal Devotion's burning lash - maybe SI also does. Doubt it, but worth testing. Arcane Archer's imbue spells do profit for example. But I guess they are tagged as weapon attacks. 

I think it might because SI damage is reduced by Veil Touched (the buff that spirits have that reduced melee damage by a lot) so maybe SI is treated as a weapon attack?