The Ultimate discussion thread

[Decadency]

1 hour ago, wildeyn00700 said:

Um, how on earth does anybody do the Changeling's Dance?  Is there any way to get out of doing that fight, or of winning it on Ultimate?  I can't do invocations or use belt items, so there is no play that I can think of at all.  Do some classes spells work?  How did you manage it, Decadency?

Ohhh... if you go to a different location on the main map to get a different artifact, maybe you can avoid that fight.  I'll check it out.

Yeah I did Seeker's path. It's much easier.

[wildeyn00700]

Just now, Decadency said:

Yeah I did Seeker's path. It's much easier.

With enough history skill, are you able to avoid losing your resting bonuses on the confusing trail?

[Decadency]

1 minute ago, wildeyn00700 said:

With enough history skill, are you able to avoid losing your resting bonuses on the confusing trail?

Confusing Trail? I lost my resting bonuses on a bridge

[wildeyn00700]

Just now, Decadency said:

Confusing Trail? I lost my resting bonuses on a bridge

I posted about that a post or two back.  With the right skills, you can bypass the bridge w/o losing bonuses.  Then, doing the seeker artifact area, if you dont pass skill tests - history at least - then you lose a day and lose resting bonuses again.

[Decadency]

Just now, wildeyn00700 said:

I posted about that a post or two back.  With the right skills, you can bypass the bridge w/o losing bonuses.  Then, doing the seeker artifact area, if you dont pass skill tests - history at least - then you lose a day and lose resting bonuses again.

Ah... don't know about this. Anyway... Looks like I've got not enough time to finish this run.

[Decadency]

Killed the Ooze

[Raven Darkholme]

9 hours ago, wildeyn00700 said:

I posted about that a post or two back.  With the right skills, you can bypass the bridge w/o losing bonuses.  Then, doing the seeker artifact area, if you dont pass skill tests - history at least - then you lose a day and lose resting bonuses again.

Yeah I was pretty certain abck when I did SSS I found a way to not lose bonuses, too.

[wildeyn00700]

7 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Yeah I was pretty certain abck when I did SSS I found a way to not lose bonuses, too.

Ok, I've done a bunch of testing (with my Ultimate character) and I believe that you have to lose rest bonuses once you go out into the wilderness in SSS and choose your location/artifact.  The closest area doesn't kill your rest bonuses, but it leads to the absolutely impossible changeling battle.  The other two, even if you make all of your skill checks, kill your rest.  It is stupid - it says "1 hr" passed and that removes rest bonuses.  On the other hand, keeping rest bonuses for 80 days is also stupid, so two bad designs cancel out, I suppose.  Vive Obsidian.

Specifically, before you use grappling hook, a bit of athletics, and 10 con in the endurance area (bottom right area), 1 hr passes.  And the other area, the one in the bottom left with the spider cave fight, makes 5 hrs pass even if you do it right (doing it wrong makes 24 hrs pass), and in either case you lose resting bonuses.  If anybody finds a way otherwise, definitely let me know as I'd love to not have that happen, but I don't see what options I am missing.  I didn't get any "bad" outcomes to make that happen.  This is the only place pre-Ukaizo that I believe you have to lose resting.  I got through FS and BW w/o losing bonuses.  Certainly, all content and mega-bosses can pretty much be finished before loss of bonuses.  SSS can apparently help give you extra acc vs. vessels if done after BW, but I haven't tested that.  That would help with Dorudugan, but not if resting bonuses get jacked.  (You could get 1 of the incremental Rymgrand/vessel bonus before the forced SSS rest, if you wanted 2 acc vs him at the cost of some travel time, which I doubt is worth it.)

[Boeroer]

I think that rest bonuses (that you don't get from food) shouldn't determine if you can finish the Ultimate or not. And as far as I can tell they don't. 

 

 

[Decadency]

Killed Dorudugan and the first Dead Dragon. Easiest fights of the run )

But I've got 10 days left. I think it's no chance to finish.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Decadency

[Waski]

Got bored (landline broken-no "Stranger Things" for me) so I started test run (without Weal). Went with bm/skaen aumaua/raider 
Maje(max mech/hylea bounty/adra potion)->Meryel(she walks fastest, lure her out with traps)->Sandswept(4800xp)->Deadlight->Dunnage(Irwena)->Neketaka(retrain in gullet for max stealth/spechulars done/stole everything that wasn't bolted to the floor/ every drop of xp, even hire Rust to kill Spindle-1200xp bestiary/kept effigy husk and bought mantle 7 bolts and skuldr ear(!)->new ship->Hasongo(reptile blood!)->Beina->Dunnage->Crookspur(free wahaki/kill Dhwrgas)->Sayuka(half cpt banquet)->Ori o Koiki(brutish blood!- enchant effigy for AoE)->sayuka(captain banquet)->Bekarna(cape and rest)->Onadere->Ikorno->Vessali 

all bounties were done from stealth with kamikaze phantom (effigy&7bolts)
I tried to do Poko Kohara (lv15) but culdn't

went Tikawara(natures resolve)->Nekataka->lv17 :)(giant grub, water dragon), killed Arkemyr(still brilliant from cape after dragon fight, attack first ironclad and only corridor agrro then send spirit ally for spell target practice for Arkemyr)

19 days till Ashen Maw. Ideally (I think) next Poko Kohara->Concelhaut->Nemnok->Belranga->Ashen Maw (I would have north covered, Auranic last) but I have doubts that I can kill Belranga pre lv19 (no wall of draining), rest should be easy with cape and arkemyr departure.

I don't think I will have will to practice all fights with notes and stopwatch and do Ultimate so maybe it can help somebody.

Edit.  Just realised that while replaying post Crookspur to figure out how to get cpt banquet I forgot to take master navigator  so it should be faster than 19 days till Ashen Maw 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Waski

[wildeyn00700]

9 hours ago, Waski said:

Got bored (landline broken-no "Stranger Things" for me) so I started test run (without Weal). Went with bm/skaen aumaua/raider 
Maje(max mech/hylea bounty/adra potion)->Meryel(she walks fastest, lure her out with traps)->Sandswept(4800xp)->Deadlight->Dunnage(Irwena)->Neketaka(retrain in gullet for max stealth/spechulars done/stole everything that wasn't bolted to the floor/ every drop of xp, even hire Rust to kill Spindle-1200xp bestiary/kept effigy husk and bought mantle 7 bolts and skuldr ear(!)->new ship->Hasongo(reptile blood!)->Beina->Dunnage->Crookspur(free wahaki/kill Dhwrgas)->Sayuka(half cpt banquet)->Ori o Koiki(brutish blood!- enchant effigy for AoE)->sayuka(captain banquet)->Bekarna(cape and rest)->Onadere->Ikorno->Vessali 

all bounties were done from stealth with kamikaze phantom (effigy&7bolts)
I tried to do Poko Kohara (lv15) but culdn't

went Tikawara(natures resolve)->Nekataka->lv17 :)(giant grub, water dragon), killed Arkemyr(still brilliant from cape after dragon fight, attack first ironclad and only corridor agrro then send spirit ally for spell target practice for Arkemyr)

19 days till Ashen Maw. Ideally (I think) next Poko Kohara->Concelhaut->Nemnok->Belranga->Ashen Maw (I would have north covered, Auranic last) but I have doubts that I can kill Belranga pre lv19 (no wall of draining), rest should be easy with cape and arkemyr departure.

I don't think I will have will to practice all fights with notes and stopwatch and do Ultimate so maybe it can help somebody.

Edit.  Just realised that while replaying post Crookspur to figure out how to get cpt banquet I forgot to take master navigator  so it should be faster than 19 days till Ashen Maw 

Could you explain a bit more about how you did bounties from stealth with a bm/priest?  How do you get combats started?  Do a few combats just start even though you are still in stealth, or is there a technique to use?

[wildeyn00700]

19 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I think that rest bonuses (that you don't get from food) shouldn't determine if you can finish the Ultimate or not. And as far as I can tell they don't. 

 

 

I agree.  Losing the rest bonuses did force me to discover something (which many may already know).  If you use a food that increases your power level (I just used the lesser baby back ribs b/c they were right there for sale in SSS), then a chanter starts with 7 chants, which is enough for a Troub to summon ancient weapons right away.

I haven't ever seen the Porokoa fight except in a couple of videos by others, but I think I am nearly there.  I got to champion of arena with my ranger/chanter, although that fight on the little pedastal sucks for me, as I couldn't use my ideal strategy.  Managed to beat the dragonslayers first try, using 2-3 withdraw scrolls (cant remember which).  The bear party can't be beaten with my character on Ultimate if you fight them on the pedastal, but then when you fight them in the water, you have plenty of room for Vela and can start in stealth, so you can use my strategy (i.e. cheese) on them.

So, it comes down to whether I can beat Porokoa.  If I can, then I believe that I've tested and won all fights that need to be done to finish Ultimate.  I'd need to re-test Dorudugan with Abydon's challenge, probably, to make sure I can do him with 3 weapons, or else rack my brain for another strategy to beat him, if possible.

Edited July 8, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[Waski]

1 hour ago, wildeyn00700 said:

Could you explain a bit more about how you did bounties from stealth with a bm/priest?  How do you get combats started?  Do a few combats just start even though you are still in stealth, or is there a technique to use?

Combat starts when enemy triggers the trap,  no matter  what.  You can be stealthed and in the other side of the map. 

[wildeyn00700]

3 minutes ago, Waski said:

Combat starts when enemy triggers the trap,  no matter  what.  You can be stealthed and in the other side of the map. 

If you set a trap, enemies walk up to it but don't trigger it, right?  Do you set a trap along where they patrol and then wait until they trip it?  Or do you do something like combining a trap and then a sparkcracker or spell?

Edited July 8, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[Waski]

Sometimes trigger,  if not I lure them with dazzling lights or firecracker. 

[wildeyn00700]

Holy Crap!!!!    I've got the power!  Porokoa doesn't force you into combat after all!   Game over!  I haven't even fought him yet but it is surely over!   I believe I've proven the concept, erm maybe with an exception of Dorudugan, who I beat but have to see if I can do it with Abydon's challenge on.  All other fights can be done for sure.  Also, I'm almost certain it can be done in time, because turn-based combat takes very little Eothas (in game) time to complete.  For example, I beat all of those Nagas in SSS which takes forever but in-game it was just 1 hr.

Update: Yep, killed him, first try, no issues.  He made me nervous for a few minutes with his ancient bellows that gives him huge armor and 70 regen for 5 rounds, which he did twice, but then he stopped doing it.  So, it basically buys him 10 rounds when you are solo, but then life moves on.  My poor Animated Bow kept breaking its elbows, knees, hands, and ribs, however.  heh.

You know what will most likely kill me in Trial of Iron?  Forgetting to re-program-in chants after I respec, as they get all wiped away.  If I get into a fight that way, it is auto-death, as I can't do any invocations then.  I've done that several times in my test game and had to reload.

One thing that Obsidian really screwed up, when you hotkey your Animated Weapon abilities (like wounding shot, flames of devotion, and knock down), the hotkeys get wiped away every time that particular group of summons goes away.  Absurd.

If any crazy people want to try my build, and if you have questions about any fights, ask and I'll describe how I did or bypassed it.  Haven't done Drowned Barrows or Ukaizo yet, but I've seen them before and I doubt very much that they will be a problem (famous last words - heh).  One thing I can't remember, which would be a very very sad way to die, is if the final fight after the Guardian, is an ambush.  That could be a problem, possibly.  We'll see.  Does anybody know about that, and does anybody know which faction is wisest to pick?  Is there a faction that lets you not get attacked after you [almost] finish the game?  The one time I've done it that I can remember, I sided with the Pirates and got attacked by the Huana Queen, if I am remembering right.

Here's what I think: if a priest real-time build can do the Eothas challenge, then it is likely better, because it seems that you can get fights down to a science with the right priest/x build (from what I hear from you guys - I haven't played one).  If Eothas remains an issue, my build may be the way to go.   With my build, you can pick up so much exp at each level, and at each location you are naturally at, by winning fights, and you can win most fights at most levels (within reason) so you can probably do a more direct route through the game (I don't have that planned out and optimized yet, however).  You can also probably get more gold faster, as well, in case that matters for a better ship. 

On the other hand, Waski's post about getting to level 17 with a bm/priest is amazing, and far better than what I could do at this point with a real-time build.  I don't have the knowledge or experience to duplicate what he did from what he wrote, currently.  I don't know how to beat that, but my build may have the potential to, logically speaking, if somebody knows the game well enough.

Edited July 8, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[thelee]

11 hours ago, wildeyn00700 said:

One thing I can't remember, which would be a very very sad way to die, is if the final fight after the Guardian, is an ambush.  That could be a problem, possibly.  We'll see.  Does anybody know about that, and does anybody know which faction is wisest to pick?  Is there a faction that lets you not get attacked after you [almost] finish the game?  The one time I've done it that I can remember, I sided with the Pirates and got attacked by the Huana Queen, if I am remembering right.

that ambush, unless it also got buffed as part of the ukaizo guardian buff, is extremely low-level compared to what most people should be at that point. if you could handle the rest of the game under the ultimate, then that really should be no problem.

i'm taking a bit of a break, trying to get motivated again. it's kind of a killer-amount-of-tedium that i know the next time i boot up deadfire, i literally am just going to be sitting around doing nothing for most of the next hour (dense fights in ashen maw that are not easily stealthable, and one boss fight). that's ironically probably the hardest part of the tactician/priest setup, just the sheer buffing tedium. though when I do that, that should give me a huge amount of time to clear out other bosses and DLC (50+ days), helped along by the fact that you get auto-teleported back from ashen maw to nekataka.

it would be exceedingly great if ranger/chanter really can go all the way.

Edited July 8, 2019 by thelee

[Decadency]

2 hours ago, thelee said:

that ambush, unless it also got buffed as part of the ukaizo guardian buff, is extremely low-level compared to what most people should be at that point. if you could handle the rest of the game under the ultimate, then that really should be no problem.

i'm taking a bit of a break, trying to get motivated again. it's kind of a killer-amount-of-tedium that i know the next time i boot up deadfire, i literally am just going to be sitting around doing nothing for most of the next hour (dense fights in ashen maw that are not easily stealthable, and one boss fight). that's ironically probably the hardest part of the tactician/priest setup, just the sheer buffing tedium. though when I do that, that should give me a huge amount of time to clear out other bosses and DLC (50+ days), helped along by the fact that you get auto-teleported back from ashen maw to nekataka.

it would be exceedingly great if ranger/chanter really can go all the way.

So you killed Belranga before Ashen Maw?

I've started a new run >< level 8 now

Edited July 8, 2019 by Decadency

[wildeyn00700]

2 hours ago, thelee said:

that ambush, unless it also got buffed as part of the ukaizo guardian buff, is extremely low-level compared to what most people should be at that point. if you could handle the rest of the game under the ultimate, then that really should be no problem.

i'm taking a bit of a break, trying to get motivated again. it's kind of a killer-amount-of-tedium that i know the next time i boot up deadfire, i literally am just going to be sitting around doing nothing for most of the next hour (dense fights in ashen maw that are not easily stealthable, and one boss fight). that's ironically probably the hardest part of the tactician/priest setup, just the sheer buffing tedium. though when I do that, that should give me a huge amount of time to clear out other bosses and DLC (50+ days), helped along by the fact that you get auto-teleported back from ashen maw to nekataka.

it would be exceedingly great if ranger/chanter really can go all the way.

Which Ashen Maw fights?  Wasn't it you who made the video showing how to stealth past the bridge?  If not, a person showed how to do it.  The other fights other than the beginning of the dragon cave, and the dragon itself, are all avoidable, as far as I saw.  Are you running into some other fight that you aren't seeing how to avoid, or did I misunderstand your post?

[Decadency]

I found a funny thing about the iron man save. Do you know that if you die and you never saved your game - your save is not deleted and you just start on a ship? The same thing after opening the door in Sandswept Ruins (where the puzzle for 4 party members is). If you didn't saved before and came there - your iron man save is autosaved like on a ship and if you die - you've got a checkpoint (lol).

Not very helpful though.

Here is how it looks like. The second save is where I died and the first is my current try.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Decadency

[wildeyn00700]

1 hour ago, Decadency said:

I found a funny thing about the iron man save. Do you know that if you die and you never saved your game - your save is not deleted and you just start on a ship? The same thing after opening the door in Sandswept Ruins (where the puzzle for 4 party members is). If you didn't saved before and came there - your iron man save is autosaved like on a ship and if you die - you've got a checkpoint (lol).

Not very helpful though.

(Not really the right post to quote, but...)

Can you confirm the exact number of days of the Eothas challenge?  80?  is the wiki correct on this? /Magran's_Fires#Eothas.27_challenge_dates

Edited July 9, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[Decadency]

7 minutes ago, wildeyn00700 said:

(Not really the right post to quote, but...)

Can you confirm the exact number of days of the Eothas challenge?  80?  is the wiki correct on this? /Magran's_Fires#Eothas.27_challenge_dates

I can't. I died before. It was so stupid.

Here: 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Decadency

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, wildeyn00700 said:

(Not really the right post to quote, but...)

Can you confirm the exact number of days of the Eothas challenge?  80?  is the wiki correct on this? /Magran's_Fires#Eothas.27_challenge_dates

The wiki is correct.

[Decadency]

Actually I did some tests and I think I had a chance to finish the game with 10 days left ><