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Well, it sounds like you just have a specific playstyle that Priests don't cater to*.

 

Your arguments also lend more to "nerf wizard" than they do to "buff priest", seeing as even you admit that the Priest can be effective. If you feel heavily pushed towards 5x Wizard/Multi, then the issue would be that Wiz is overtuned. I don't actually think that Wiz needs a nerf but that is really more the point you're making.

 

*Though it seems like you just don't want to play a Priest since Priest can participate in an opening nuke/cc barrage just fine.

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Well, most of priest inspirations are single target unfortunately (which doesnt feel good at all, considering you had AOE affliction resistances in PoE1 instead). And some of the strong buffs are just way too slow, like Champion's Boon, 3sec cast 3sec recovery for ONE target... Not counting the seals being extremely underwhelming, all and all priest only has a couple of very specific spells that are good while the vast majority are quite crap...

most of the priest inspirations can affect your entire party. inspirations that only affect a single target are the exception, not the rule: prayer/litany for the body/spirit, champion's boon, minor avatar (possible barring death's door depending on how you define "inspiration") and of those i would only rate prayer for the body as particularly underpowered (litany for the body is conditionally *extremely* good because +2 AR can mean in the best case scenario +300% effective health). champion's boon is also situationally extremely good on higher difficulties because of PEN issues and can be metagamed with various setups that depend on engagement, though it can be a bit too metagame-y for lower difficulties where you can just brute force your way through things.

 

i don't know why people are similarly so sour on warding seal or searing seal. repulsing seal, sure, but it's not really notably worse than pillar of faith which i feel like a lot of people would be fine with taking (though requires insider knowledge to know that repulsing seal prones on graze, whereas pillar of faith only prones on hit).

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Dire Blessing is one of the best low level buffs imho. As we know, Per is King.

I use to take this spell, but I started to doubt the benefit when the battles after level 9 were already over and the priest never took a second action.

 

For me, 3.0 second cast and 4.0 second base recover is FOREVER in POE (non-turn-base) for a +5 PER & miss-to-graze, party-wide buff...

 

When I look at party efficiency (bleeding-edge), I start to think about...

Monk+Caster doesn't need the 3rd-party Aware buff (helwalker) and is already launching nukes at an insane rate and with an extreme AOE (duality)

Fighter+Caster doesn't need the 3rd-party Aware buff (disciplined/tactical barrage) and is already launching nukes with concentration, at an expanded AOE

 

Zerker+Caster, Rogue+Caster, and  Paladin+Caster don't have the inherent Aware/Aware-like buff (other the Paladin's stacking accuracy group-buff).  In this case, this is where the wizard is helpful with Eldritch Aim (Aware).  It is a level 1 spell that lasts for 10 seconds, but with a high intelligence it is 15-18 seconds, which is plenty in any battle.  Most importantly... the cast time is 0.4 seconds, with 0.0 seconds recovery!  This means the nuking can begin almost instantaneously...

 

Group-level efficiency lately makes me build: melee classes + casters.  Looking at access to certain buffs you might consider:

Monk + Druid or Fighter + Druid

Fighter + Cipher or Monk + Cipher

Rogue + Wiz

Pali + Wiz

Zerker + Wiz

 

The classes with inherent, rapid self-buffs, you pair with non-Wiz casters

For the melee classes that could use added survivability or accuracy buffs, go Wiz.

 

Ultimately, you only need to invest in 2-3 buffs (for longer, harder battles) for a wiz, or just swap grimoires (Llengraths Martial, Brawler, Katrenn's, etc.).  The order of preference is: armor, deflection, accuracy... typically casting one armor buff to avoid the stray over-pen, destructive blow.   In regular battles, I don't use buffs with cast times over 0.4 second casts, unless entering a mega-boss battle (see above, swap grimoires for those battles).

 

In the end, 5x casters launching nukes/cc/debuffs in under 3 secs define 99% of the game for me, so why not optimize around that sequence, other than flavor (I have done pure solo-class and pure-melee runs, which were definitely fun).  Clearly, my current vantage point is more of an edge-case, where I am trying to find teams that control and destroy battles at the fastest rate, while still being able to plow into mega-bosses without the need to respec.  

 

Again, I'm just sharing some experiental lessons I learned over the course of multiple runs.  I have played dozens of fun builds, utilizing highly diversified parties (no same class twice), that are capable of going through on POTD without too many concerns.  However, after so many runs, what I find myself lingering upon, is how to do it all over again, more efficiently.  

 

As always, I'm open to new ideas and different tactics!

Edited by heldred
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It is a level 1 spell that lasts for 10 seconds, but with a high intelligence it is 15-18 seconds, which is plenty in any battle. Most importantly... the cast time is 0.4 seconds, with 0.0 seconds recovery! This means the nuking can begin almost instantaneously...

are you seriously finishing all post-level 9 fights in under 20 seconds/before a priest can take a second action? i find that extremely hard to believe. maybe late game by opening with a bunch of empowered nukes, but at level 10...

 

other the Paladin's stacking accuracy group-buff

if you're talking about the aura, it doesn't stack with other accuracy bonuses, though admittedly there aren't that many out there.

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It is a level 1 spell that lasts for 10 seconds, but with a high intelligence it is 15-18 seconds, which is plenty in any battle. Most importantly... the cast time is 0.4 seconds, with 0.0 seconds recovery! This means the nuking can begin almost instantaneously...

are you seriously finishing all post-level 9 fights in under 20 seconds/before a priest can take a second action? i find that extremely hard to believe. maybe late game by opening with a bunch of empowered nukes, but at level 10...

 

 

 

Yeah, even on POTD, 5x casters chucking nukes becomes hideous.  What adds to the pain:

 

1) Stacking PL items -- Fire caster, Lightning caster, etc. (you really have one that specializes in Fire PL, Frost PL, Lightning, etc.  - you will still cast other key-word Damage or CC spells when you face a creature resistant to your PL-specialty damage, but you will hit hard with your specialty). 

2) Monk + caster...  Might bonuses + Int bonuses + Dex bonuses = a field of death with high starting PER

3) Knowing your enemies' weaknesses  -  raw damage spells and grimoire swaps are helpful here - If the mob has high defense to your available damage type and you can't swap spells (druids and cipher) you can always contribute with AOE cc or debuffs.

4) Most battles have a natural "terrain funnel" to take advantage of grouping mobs, so 5 spells are hitting almost everyone for damage - but in open fields, AOE is still your friend, but Point-Blank spells start to shine in this limited case.

5) Knowing your ranges and cast times... after enough casts, running at a certain clock speed in combat, I know roughly 1 inch of screen distance on my monitor is 0.5 secs of cast time.  Making sure you hit as many buggers a possible.  

6) Always design s good point person (vanguard), that happily welcomes the flood of mobs. Should have good defenses (deflection, armor, concentration, etc.) and still is going to cast offensively (typically Fighter/Cipher or Pali/Wiz for me).  Foe-only AOE or any point-blank spell is fun here.

7) Nuke yourself...  risky, but if regular-mobs are inside the perimeter, odds are your saves and/or armor are better, especially with the right gear.  I never tire of hearing, "I never thought you had the nerve..."

Edited by heldred
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It is a level 1 spell that lasts for 10 seconds, but with a high intelligence it is 15-18 seconds, which is plenty in any battle. Most importantly... the cast time is 0.4 seconds, with 0.0 seconds recovery! This means the nuking can begin almost instantaneously...

are you seriously finishing all post-level 9 fights in under 20 seconds/before a priest can take a second action? i find that extremely hard to believe. maybe late game by opening with a bunch of empowered nukes, but at level 10...

 

 

 

Yeah, even on POTD, 5x casters chucking nukes becomes hideous.  What adds to the pain:

 

1) Stacking PL items -- Fire caster, Lightning caster, etc.

2) Monk + caster ..  Might bonuses+  Int bonuses + Dex bonuses = a field of death with high starting PER

3) Knowing your enemies' weaknesses  -  raw damage spells and grimoire swaps are helpful here - If the mob has high defense to your available damage type and you can't swap spells (druids and cipher) you can always contribute with AOE cc or debuffs.

4) Most battles have a natural "funnel" to take advantage of, so 5 spells are hitting almost everyone for damage - but in open fields, AOE is still your friend, but Point-Blank spells start to shine in this limited case.

5) Knowing your ranges and cast times... after enough casts, running at a certain clock speed in combat, I know roughly 1 inch of screen distance on my monitor is 0.5 secs of cast time.  Making sure you hit as many buggers a possible.  

6) Always design s good point person (vanguard), that happily welcomes the flood of mobs. Should have good defenses (deflection, armor, concentration, etc.) and still is going to cast offensively (typically Fighter/Cipher or Pali/Wiz for me).  Foe-only AOE or any point-blank spell is fun here.

7) Nuke yourself...  risky, but if regular-mobs are inside the perimeter, odds are your saves and/or armor are better, especially with the right gear.  I never tire of hearing, "I never thought your had the nerve..."

 

 

this is what i get for trying to run diverse + mostly-obsidian-made parties.

Edited by thelee
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Just chiming in. Making good progress in the game with my Priest, still having fun. It is true that Wizards can self buff with literally no cooldown, but I like that my Priest can buff the whole party all at once. As I get higher level the healing spells are fewer and far between but with max Honesty and Benevolence my Holy Radiance is much more efficient. Plus I have the Lay On Hands gloves for emergencies. All though there is not much that changes from battle to battle, ei buff / heal / buff and so on, that's what I signed up for ☺ Looking forward to what's next! Who knows, maybe they'll get some love from Obsidian in the future.

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They are surely weaker than in PoE (that might explain the bashing) but I also think they are quite enjoyable and useful in Deadfire, especially in a party.

 

Only gripe I have is the limited spell portfolio you will have - without a helpful mechanic to expand that selection (like Wizards who can use Grimoires) a Priest can sometimes feel a bit... onesided?

 

Weaker...I guess, but they still feel very powerful to me. I'm playing a Cleric (Wael) right now and I also bring Xoti everywhere I can.

 

Xoti hits pretty hard with her burn spells and she's not even optimized stats-wise or gear-wise to take advantage of the burn spells. For example, if I really wanted to optimize for burn damage I could dual wield the Axe and Flail that both give + to fire PL. Xoti is only using one of those. I could also use them on a character with higher might than Xoti has. But anyways Priests can do pretty nice AOE damage (party friendly too in many cases) with their burn spells. Shining Beacon/Symbol of Eothas are great. I've won many a fight with those spells.

 

As for my Cleric, he is able to buff himself up to be very tanky thanks to Wael spells. He's basically a Battlemage but with heals. A pure Battlemage does have access to a little bit more self-buffs probably than the Wael version does but he's still very tanky. He's able to fill just about any role I want - tank, dps, heal, etc. Very jack of all trades character.

 

And of course Barring Death's Door, Resurrection, and Salvation of Time are all enormously powerful buffs and are in fact game breaking if you combo them with Ancestor's Memory since you can make yourself effectively invulnerable. Granted Ancestor's Memory is cheesy with a lot of classes but none moreso than a Priest I think.

 

Anyways all that is to say Priests are still plenty strong. They aren't the one man gods they were in Poe1 but I almost always want one in my party in Poe2. Between Devotions of the Faithful and all their utility (rezzes, etc) they are worth a spot.

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