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Optimal stats for a Assassin/wizard (blood mage)

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#1
Steampunkgears

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Hey everyone,

 I was planning on doing a Potd new run with a Assassin/wizard(blood mage) and I could not decide on stat allocation. I was reading from someone that Dex and Int are a must to max and Per is a nice added bonus if you could afford it. I was worried what to put into Might as I was not sure how that would affect my character when using blood sacrifice. Was also wondering how low should I dump Con/Res?

So far the stats im looking at using from what I have gather so far are as follows (12,8,20,15,18,5) any help on adjusting this would be appreciated. 

 

Also starting spells abilities to grab asap for this build would be nice to know as I am unfamiliar with how this class plays. This class setup seems like it would be fun and Im excited to give it a try. Thanks in advance for the advice/help.



#2
thelee

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for a blood mage i personally find constitution to be more important than virtually any other builds since health becomes a way to regenerate spells, so the extra health cushion can be useful. (But i am playing on potd + skaen/ondra/wael/berath challenge, which means i have no information on my specific health (wael) and also knockouts become lethal after 10 seconds (berath), so the convenience of the extra health cushion for me might be specific to that set of challenges.)

 

might is particularly bad for blood mage since IIRC, might will increase the raw self-damage. as a part rogue you will already have lots of damage boosts for martial sneak attacks (and eventually deathblows) anyway, so balancing that out with perception is more important than having a wee bit more might. 

 

Spoiler

 

move might points elsewhere (but don't go below 10).  again keeping in mind that my recommendation for con might be influenced by my challenges, i would personally recommend moving might and possibly even some perception into con (a blood mage can spam eldritch aim as needed if accuracy is a problem).

 

for a simple intro to how a blood mage can play, i would pick up chill fog, eldritch aim, and then at AL2 concelhaut's siphon. overlapping chill fogs to ensure constant blinds (for sneak attack and general debuffing utility), eldritch aim to max accuracy for both sneak attacks and chill fogs, and then concelhaut's siphon spamming to keep your health up should give you a nice preview of how powerful a blood mage can be. If you want an easy time for early potd fights, get slicken instead of chill fog (and just use chill fog when you get a grimoire) and just repeat spam slicken (plus optionally eldritch aim to help land) until everyone who's not a floating creature is constantly tripping and you can just pick them off at your leisure.


Edited by thelee, 07 March 2019 - 12:38 PM.

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#3
Steampunkgears

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Thanks thelee, I will keep that in mind for my build tomorrow. Anyone else with insight on stat allocation for the assassin/bloodmage would be greatly appreciated.



#4
brasilgringo

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I think Slicken comes in the Ninagauth's Teachings grimoire, which I found myself constantly using on all my mage variations. That's an argument for starting with Chill Fog, since you can't (afaik) respec your character-creation spell choices later.


Edited by brasilgringo, 07 March 2019 - 03:37 PM.


#5
Steampunkgears

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I meant to ask this as well but is blood sacrifice meant to be used in place of empower or is it a spam type thing to where I can use it to increase dmg output? I am assuming it's limited and that's why it has been mentioned to dump points in con to help keep the self dmg low.

#6
Steampunkgears

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Also, what have some people found as good starting weapon proficiencies for this class?

#7
Taudis

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I've always played Blood Mage as a spell spammer that tries to keep up the PL boost and cast the same spells over and over.

As for weapons, the Wizard side wants defensive ones/stat sticks/utility and the Assassin side probably wants high base damage ones to go with Backstab. I'd consider Quarterstaff as a first pick for the big defensive bonus and decent base damage (plus you'll probably use Chromoprismatic later) or Morningstar for the modal to help land your #1 early game spell: Chill Fog.

Battle Axe and Medium Shield is also not a bad call. Medium Shield has a decent modal and is good past the early game because one of the better passive healing item is Lethandra's Devotion. Battle Axe modal should in theory do more damage from an Assassin-boosted strike and that weapon category also has a somewhat desirable stat stick in Magran's Favor (I prefer Chromoprismatic on the elementally diverse Wizard but you do have some good fire spells).

Dagger and Hatchet also age reasonably well as defensive weapons, and can pair with Wizard buffs for more Riposte procs if you build that way. Marux Amanth has a very desirable boss killer effect and is super easy to upgrade on a Spellblade if you go Dagger route.
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#8
brasilgringo

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I meant to ask this as well but is blood sacrifice meant to be used in place of empower or is it a spam type thing to where I can use it to increase dmg output? I am assuming it's limited and that's why it has been mentioned to dump points in con to help keep the self dmg low.

One thing you can bear in mind - you can use it to self-damage yourself at the start of combat to trigger Llengarth's Safeguard as well as potentially to get your health low enough to use Potion of Final Stand, both of which you can then extend (along with all other buffs) with Wall of Draining.  The trouble with Blood Sacrifice is that if you have cast a few spells from different levels, it's pretty random on which ones it will give back, and you can easily kill yourself spamming it too much unless you have a no-death effect (like Potion of Final Stand).



#9
thelee

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I meant to ask this as well but is blood sacrifice meant to be used in place of empower or is it a spam type thing to where I can use it to increase dmg output? I am assuming it's limited and that's why it has been mentioned to dump points in con to help keep the self dmg low.

One thing you can bear in mind - you can use it to self-damage yourself at the start of combat to trigger Llengarth's Safeguard as well as potentially to get your health low enough to use Potion of Final Stand, both of which you can then extend (along with all other buffs) with Wall of Draining.  The trouble with Blood Sacrifice is that if you have cast a few spells from different levels, it's pretty random on which ones it will give back, and you can easily kill yourself spamming it too much unless you have a no-death effect (like Potion of Final Stand).

 

 

it's also a good synergy with human or death godlike racial passives. multiclassing with priest or having a priest in your party solves the accidental self-knockout problem because unlike potion of final stand you can use barring death's door without needing to be near death first (and if you want to go for this angle, you can follow up with a potion of final stand after you've safely been dropped to near death).

 

mentioned this in messages with steampunkgears but i'll reiterate it here just for anyone else coming to the discussion - blood sacrifice is powerful because you can control what spells you get back, and I suspect the only reason why the entire forum community hasn't come to an agreement that blood mage is like the most powerful subclass ever is because people haven't actually tried to play the blood mage like this, instead just using it as a slower, random form of self-empower for spell cast restore. it's worth "inefficiently" trying to use blood sacrifice at times, just so that it helps restore spells you do want later down the line (like if you opened with a few self-buffs, even though you don't need to restore spells yet you can use blood sacrifice to fill up again so that when you do want to restore spell casts you don't end up restoring spell levels you didn't want). it skews you heavily to AL1-3 and AL4-6 (to a lesser extent) spells, but it's worth it because spells in poe1/deadifre are generally better designed to be good from beginning to end regardless of spell level (unlike BG where frequently lower level spells were just not worth the time late game, hellloooo larloch's minor drain)


Edited by thelee, 08 March 2019 - 12:46 PM.

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#10
Steampunkgears

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I meant to ask this as well but is blood sacrifice meant to be used in place of empower or is it a spam type thing to where I can use it to increase dmg output? I am assuming it's limited and that's why it has been mentioned to dump points in con to help keep the self dmg low.

One thing you can bear in mind - you can use it to self-damage yourself at the start of combat to trigger Llengarth's Safeguard as well as potentially to get your health low enough to use Potion of Final Stand, both of which you can then extend (along with all other buffs) with Wall of Draining.  The trouble with Blood Sacrifice is that if you have cast a few spells from different levels, it's pretty random on which ones it will give back, and you can easily kill yourself spamming it too much unless you have a no-death effect (like Potion of Final Stand).

 

 Yeah I got to messing around with it plus was given a nice explanation in a pm about it.

 

As mentioned to me by  thelee
Blood sacrifice does 5, 10, or 15 damage to yourself and randomly restores a spell from AL1-3, 4-6, or 7-9 respectively; if there's no spell to restore at the given "bucket" it drops down a bucket until it finds something to restore or you have no spells to restore at all.

I have actually setup my attributes to synergize with blood sacrifice by putting points into Con, so my health pool is not bad, there is also a item at the BB vendor in port maje that sells a necklace that adds +25 hp so that also helps early on. Although its still very early in the game for me i got a good feel for how to roll with this class but using blood sacrifice to replenish spells is quite handy. with the proper skills i.e. eldritch aim to help with accuracy and potential smoke veil later on creating crit opportunities are numerous and also keep the MC safe in a way.


Edited by Steampunkgears, 08 March 2019 - 12:55 PM.


#11
Steampunkgears

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I meant to ask this as well but is blood sacrifice meant to be used in place of empower or is it a spam type thing to where I can use it to increase dmg output? I am assuming it's limited and that's why it has been mentioned to dump points in con to help keep the self dmg low.

One thing you can bear in mind - you can use it to self-damage yourself at the start of combat to trigger Llengarth's Safeguard as well as potentially to get your health low enough to use Potion of Final Stand, both of which you can then extend (along with all other buffs) with Wall of Draining.  The trouble with Blood Sacrifice is that if you have cast a few spells from different levels, it's pretty random on which ones it will give back, and you can easily kill yourself spamming it too much unless you have a no-death effect (like Potion of Final Stand).

 

 

it's also a good synergy with human or death godlike racial passives. multiclassing with priest or having a priest in your party solves the accidental self-knockout problem because unlike potion of final stand you can use barring death's door without needing to be near death first (and if you want to go for this angle, you can follow up with a potion of final stand after you've safely been dropped to near death).

 

mentioned this in messages with steampunkgears but i'll reiterate it here just for anyone else coming to the discussion - blood sacrifice is powerful because you can control what spells you get back, and I suspect the only reason why the entire forum community hasn't come to an agreement that blood mage is like the most powerful subclass ever is because people haven't actually tried to play the blood mage like this, instead just using it as a slower, random form of self-empower for spell cast restore. it's worth "inefficiently" trying to use blood sacrifice at times, just so that it helps restore spells you do want later down the line (like if you opened with a few self-buffs, even though you don't need to restore spells yet you can use blood sacrifice to fill up again so that when you do want to restore spell casts you don't end up restoring spell levels you didn't want). it skews you heavily to AL1-3 and AL4-6 (to a lesser extent) spells, but it's worth it because spells in poe1/deadifre are generally better designed to be good from beginning to end regardless of spell level (unlike BG where frequently lower level spells were just not worth the time late game, hellloooo larloch's minor drain)

 

 

@thelee

I understand the (+7 Accuracy,+15% Damage) near death. but i feel like the +1might and +1res are a waste here. unless you go 9 might as a base stat and put that one point somewhere else like con, same with res i guess. 


Edited by Steampunkgears, 08 March 2019 - 01:02 PM.


#12
Ensign

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As others have said Blood Mage really wants to spam Blood Sacrifice, both for the +PL and to keep your spells full so you have some control over what you get back.

I would start with stats something like 10/10/18/18/18/3. Keeping CON from dipping too low and MIG from getting too high limits the vulnerability from spamming Blood Sacrifice. Resolve is safe to dump, and that allows you to max or near max everything else (you get one more point over the listed spread but racials and background will push a bit higher).

#13
Steampunkgears

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As others have said Blood Mage really wants to spam Blood Sacrifice, both for the +PL and to keep your spells full so you have some control over what you get back.

I would start with stats something like 10/10/18/18/18/3. Keeping CON from dipping too low and MIG from getting too high limits the vulnerability from spamming Blood Sacrifice. Resolve is safe to dump, and that allows you to max or near max everything else (you get one more point over the listed spread but racials and background will push a bit higher).

i ended up going 10,15,20,10,18,5  I probably could of dumped res to 3 and put that in con but at the time was not sure. and i wanted good con as the health pool really gives you the resources to work with. Perception and be buffed early by eldritch aim.

 

edit: 20 dex was achieved from background choices i think base was maxed at 19


Edited by Steampunkgears, 08 March 2019 - 01:06 PM.


#14
thelee

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I meant to ask this as well but is blood sacrifice meant to be used in place of empower or is it a spam type thing to where I can use it to increase dmg output? I am assuming it's limited and that's why it has been mentioned to dump points in con to help keep the self dmg low.

One thing you can bear in mind - you can use it to self-damage yourself at the start of combat to trigger Llengarth's Safeguard as well as potentially to get your health low enough to use Potion of Final Stand, both of which you can then extend (along with all other buffs) with Wall of Draining.  The trouble with Blood Sacrifice is that if you have cast a few spells from different levels, it's pretty random on which ones it will give back, and you can easily kill yourself spamming it too much unless you have a no-death effect (like Potion of Final Stand).

 

 

it's also a good synergy with human or death godlike racial passives. multiclassing with priest or having a priest in your party solves the accidental self-knockout problem because unlike potion of final stand you can use barring death's door without needing to be near death first (and if you want to go for this angle, you can follow up with a potion of final stand after you've safely been dropped to near death).

 

mentioned this in messages with steampunkgears but i'll reiterate it here just for anyone else coming to the discussion - blood sacrifice is powerful because you can control what spells you get back, and I suspect the only reason why the entire forum community hasn't come to an agreement that blood mage is like the most powerful subclass ever is because people haven't actually tried to play the blood mage like this, instead just using it as a slower, random form of self-empower for spell cast restore. it's worth "inefficiently" trying to use blood sacrifice at times, just so that it helps restore spells you do want later down the line (like if you opened with a few self-buffs, even though you don't need to restore spells yet you can use blood sacrifice to fill up again so that when you do want to restore spell casts you don't end up restoring spell levels you didn't want). it skews you heavily to AL1-3 and AL4-6 (to a lesser extent) spells, but it's worth it because spells in poe1/deadifre are generally better designed to be good from beginning to end regardless of spell level (unlike BG where frequently lower level spells were just not worth the time late game, hellloooo larloch's minor drain)

 

 

@thelee

I understand the (+7 Accuracy,+15% Damage) near death. but i feel like the +1might and +1res are a waste here. unless you go 9 might as a base stat and put that one point somewhere else like con, same with res i guess. 

 

 

it's actually when bloodied or worse, so it's fairly easy to trigger (death godlike is pretty hard to trigger without barring death's door or potion of the final stand). in the right set up the human racial can way trump anything you get from a more optimal stat distribution. key phrase being "in the right set up"


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#15
Steampunkgears

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makes sense @ thelee



#16
asnjas

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Ideal stats are probably 15 int and 15 dex 15 perception with the rest spread wherever. The int for mages and dex perc for their assassin side. They are smart and dexterous but not too specialized since they are jack of trades.

#17
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I want to add that I like the synergy if Blood Mage and Monk. Blood Sacrifice gives you plenty of wounds which then can be used to fuel Iron Wheel. +10 CON is no joke. You might want to say that the +10 would be better. But in this case I prefer +10 CON (and 2.5 AR). Because I can get +5 INT from Enlightened Clarity or Infuse wVE. Since a Sage likes his self buffs the procedure thelee describes also comes pretty natural: self-buff -> Blood Sacrifice. You get buffed up and are full of wounds. In this context I also like Corrosive Siphon. Blood Mage users don't mention it too much, but in combo with Dazzling Lights + Pull of Eora I find it pretty nice?

Not an Assassin/Bloodmage of course... But in general CON is not a bad stat for Blood Mage.

I even tried to stack health bonuses and regeneration gear (Amulet of Greater Health, Ring of Regeneration, Three Trolls Stitched, Tough and so on) and it really makes a difference until the flat bonuses fall a bit... flat in the late game.

Edited by Boeroer, 08 March 2019 - 09:47 PM.


#18
Steampunkgears

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Yeah it was a hard choice between spellblade and monk/wiz, I ended up picking spellblade as I have not really played any playthrough with this kind of class and wanted to spice things up. Don't get me wrong I feel the pain but I also see the potential power. I may end up also trying with the monk here in a few days to see how that plays out. The synergy sounds amazing with the monk and I can imagine it dishing out some damage. Is the blood mage/monk tanky at all? @ Boeroer

Edited by Steampunkgears, 08 March 2019 - 09:58 PM.


#19
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If you put him into thicker armor (combined with Iron Wheel) and don't use Helwalker it's ok. But monks don't have self heals. So you might want to bring some external healing.

If you like a tanky Bloodmage I guess Arcane Knight might be the answer. Or Battlemage. Or even Troubadour/Bloodmage (Ancient Memory)...?

#20
Steampunkgears

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Yeah it's a hard say. I was looking at originally playing paly/assassin but I feel that might get a little boring if I'm too tanky. I feel the spellblade was a good pick because you can technically use inv spells and evade to tank/ control your position in a battle. The potential for continuously using your fav aoe or even alpha a single target multiple times sounds like a fun challenge to me. Also being able to target nuisances like backline bowmen is a boon too. It all comes down to managing your blood sacrifice to control your spells.

The wiz/monk also sounds great but as you said self healing is a problem and I don't know if that class has any get out of harm spells/skills.

Edited by Steampunkgears, 08 March 2019 - 10:22 PM.






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