Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

From what i have seen deadfire sold better after the last expansion was sold. one way that it could have sold better was with better marketing, releasing to the consoles at the same time or close to the pc release, more detailed combat maneuvers . also, perhaps some upgrades in comparison to old rpgs but without completely losing the spirit  of baldurs gate. perhaps mixing some aspects of new rpgs with old rpgs to obtain a balance between the classic rpgs and new rpgs. unfortunately that may be necessary.

Edited by nouser
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another thing . perhaps the concept of kickstarter should be used to reduce costs , but without the game completely depending on it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Honestly, apart from it being a direct sequel (which obviously chased away people who didn't play the first game), I really can't think what they did wrong. You say "better marketing" but how? I don't think the gaming community was unaware of PoE2's existence.

 

Perhaps some upgrades in comparison to old rpgs but without completely losing the spirit of baldurs gate. perhaps mixing some aspects of new rpgs with old rpgs to obtain a balance between the classic rpgs and new rpgs. unfortunately that may be necessary.

 

But that is literally what they did! A modern RPG with the spirit of Baldur's Gate was the whole concept behind PoE!

 

I suppose the only conclusion is that all the kids these days are too busy playing battle royale shooters to enjoy a good CRPG... *Grumble grumble* In my day, Battle Royale was a cult Japanese movie about teenagers killing each other... *Grumble grumble*

Edited by Heijoushin
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

How do

 

Honestly, apart from it being a direct sequel (which obviously chased away people who didn't play the first game), I really can't think what they did wrong. You say "better marketing" but how? I don't think the gaming community was unaware of PoE2's existence.

 

Perhaps some upgrades in comparison to old rpgs but without completely losing the spirit of baldurs gate. perhaps mixing some aspects of new rpgs with old rpgs to obtain a balance between the classic rpgs and new rpgs. unfortunately that may be necessary.

 

But that is literally what they did! A modern RPG with the spirit of Baldur's Gate was the whole concept behind PoE!

 

I suppose the only conclusion is that all the kids these days are too busy playing battle royale shooters to enjoy a good CRPG... *Grumble grumble* In my day, Battle Royale was a cult Japanese movie about teenagers killing each other... *Grumble grumble*

 

How do you explain the sales sucess of Divinity Original Sin 2 ? have seen some screenshots and the graphic and gameplay seem worse than pillars.  dont know how the game sold more than pillars. can someone explain that ?  Anyway i think it is possible to produce something better than divinity original sin 2 . so there is still sales potential for possible future pillars games. Perhaps with flyng ships instead of normal ships, if the game is not set in the ocean. or maybe new lands in eora, which needs more countries. 

Edited by nouser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you explain the sales sucess of Divinity Original Sin 2 ? have seen some screenshots and the graphic and gameplay seem worse than pillars.  dont know how the game sold more than pillars. can someone explain that ?  Anyway i think it is possible to produce something better than divinity original sin 2 . so there is still sales potential for possible future pillars games. 

 

That my friend, is the question of the century. I only played a little, but I hated Divinity Original Sin 2's cheesy humor. I'd love to see a long side-by-side comparison review by someone who has played both games to the end.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nouser: Your suggestions are far too vague to have any meaning. "Better marketing." Sure, but what do you mean by that?

 

Along your line of thinking, here's how we're going to achieve world peace: get all the world leaders together and have them agree on all important questions. Wasn't that easy? Incidentally, if you want to learn to play the flute, here's how to do it: you blow into the hole at the far end and then move your fingers along the holes along its length. Dang, that's easy!

 

I'm not trying to be cruel, but being as vague as that doesn't really help anyone.

 

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

How do you explain the sales sucess of Divinity Original Sin 2 ? have seen some screenshots and the graphic and gameplay seem worse than pillars. dont know how the game sold more than pillars. can someone explain that ? Anyway i think it is possible to produce something better than divinity original sin 2 . so there is still sales potential for possible future pillars games.

That my friend, is the question of the century. I only played a little, but I hated Divinity Original Sin 2's cheesy humor. I'd love to see a long side-by-side comparison review by someone who has played both games to the end.

I don't say this to be a hipster, but I find DOS2 unplayable. The tone was just...so cringey. And the "logic" behind quest resolutions escaped me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

nouser: Your suggestions are far too vague to have any meaning. "Better marketing." Sure, but what do you mean by that?

 

Along your line of thinking, here's how we're going to achieve world peace: get all the world leaders together and have them agree on all important questions. Wasn't that easy? Incidentally, if you want to learn to play the flute, here's how to do it: you blow into the hole at the far end and then move your fingers along the holes along its length. Dang, that's easy!

 

I'm not trying to be cruel, but being as vague as that doesn't really help anyone.

 

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

What are your solutions? Edited by Verde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

also, perhaps some upgrades in comparison to old rpgs but without completely losing the spirit  of baldurs gate. perhaps mixing some aspects of new rpgs with old rpgs to obtain a balance between the classic rpgs and new rpgs. unfortunately that may be necessary.

 

All Obsidian isometric games already do this. They're conserving the general RTwP system but are clearly adapting it and improving on it based on the old IE games, hence the departure from a quasi-vancian system for abilities and spells, the focus on making all classes more actives-based, the transition from turns to literal time as well as how the THAC0/YdXX systems have been revamped, gameplay has moved away from pre-buff and heavy metagaming as requisites, and so on. Pillars does use the IE games as inspiration but combat-wise and heck, gameplay-wise as a whole plays very differently (see also the approach to stealth, and to dialogue and scripted encounters and the way items, attributes and skills play into these), and quite differently to the "next generation" of such games like Neverwinter Nights 2 as well even - and this is not even beginning to touch on the approach to narrative design and so on which, whilst maybe sharing several similarities to Planescape: Torment in particular, have also changed or evolved rather drastically since.

Edited by algroth
  • Like 1

My Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/alephg

Currently playing: Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

nouser: Your suggestions are far too vague to have any meaning. "Better marketing." Sure, but what do you mean by that?

 

Along your line of thinking, here's how we're going to achieve world peace: get all the world leaders together and have them agree on all important questions. Wasn't that easy? Incidentally, if you want to learn to play the flute, here's how to do it: you blow into the hole at the far end and then move your fingers along the holes along its length. Dang, that's easy!

 

I'm not trying to be cruel, but being as vague as that doesn't really help anyone.

 

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

Well, what are your solutions? It's even easier to criticize someone else without offering your own solutions. Let's hear em and I hope they are specific enough.

 

 

Your argument does not work at all. It is entirely reasonable to point out that someone's suggested solution to a problem is clearly too vague (like in this case) or even wrong. Whether you yourself can solve the problem is not relevant. (Someone says: "Let's fly to the moon on a hot-air balloon." Someone else says: "You can't do that, mate." This is a fair point to make, even if the second person cannot say how to fly to the moon.)

 

As for my solutions: there aren't any. I don't even think there is a problem.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest mistakes with PoE and PoE 2:

 

1. Martial classes in IE games didn't have much to do and Obsidian decided to fix that. As a result the gameplay became too intense and chaotic and too much players were put off by it. And there were too much graphical effects and it was hard to see what is happening. And the fake attacks from IE games were removed so the pace became even quicker. Too much things happen too quickly and the combat log scrolls too fast.

 

2. The story was too abstract. It was hard to relate to it.

 

3. Too much text - difficult for non native English speakers to understand. Probably boring for many native English speakers too.

 

4. PoE 2 as a direct sequel means new players are reluctant to try it.

 

Another but smaller problem was that DLCs weren't continuation of the story and you had to either replay the entire game for the DLCs or find your old save from before a certain moment in the game. The players who only play through games once were put off by this and they didn't want to buy PoE 2 early, preferring to wait until the game is fully complete.

 

PoE sold well and it seemed that PoE 2 will also sell well. But most of the PoE I players were disappointed, so they weren' there for PoE 2.

 

The game is great and it will be played for the years to come. It will be a classic. But it just didn't sell well enough. PoE III is now unlikely to happen.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

wih: Those are all plausible explanations, but without conducting really extensive surveys, there's no way you can say any of them are true.

 

For instance, I would personally respond that:

 

1) None of that's true, except for the combat log scrolling too fast.

2) Not true. How was it abstract?

3) Not true. Incidentally, the story was rather well written, and in good English (this is my area of expertise, so I won't  hesitate to make claims).

4) This is true in the sense that if you didn't like PoE, you probably won't even try Deadfire.

Edited by xzar_monty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wih: Those are all plausible explanations, but without conducting really extensive surveys, there's no way you can say any of them are true.

 

For instance, I would personally respond that:

 

1) None of that's true, except for the combat log scrolling too fast.

2) Not true. How was it abstract?

3) Not true. Incidentally, the story was rather well written, and in good English (this is my area of expertise, so I won't  hesitate to make claims).

4) This is true in the sense that if you didn't like PoE, you probably won't even try Deadfire.

Nobody will do extensive surveys. Obsidian knows best what are the reasons, because they have the most experience to judge. However they won't tell us so...

 

1) Maybe you are right and maybe I am right. Without extensive survey we only have opinions here.

2) Abstract in the sense it was not personal and down to earth. Too philosophical. I have read such things, but mostly in my own native language. If I was native English speaker maybe I would think differently.

3) We have different perspectives here. I was able to understand what is being written, but the problem is that the writer tries to create a picture in the reader's mind using words. However, for the non native Engish reader those words do not evoke the same images and associations that the writer is expecting. So such a reader remains cold and is bored. Since you are saying that the game was well written, I will not insist that Obsidian should have written PoE in a different way, just that  this probably led to some PoE players not buying PoE 2.

4) I mean this in the sense that PoE 2 only draws from the pool of PoE 1 players. By making the game a direct sequel Obsidian limited the potential player base for POE 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

nouser: Your suggestions are far too vague to have any meaning. "Better marketing." Sure, but what do you mean by that?

 

Along your line of thinking, here's how we're going to achieve world peace: get all the world leaders together and have them agree on all important questions. Wasn't that easy? Incidentally, if you want to learn to play the flute, here's how to do it: you blow into the hole at the far end and then move your fingers along the holes along its length. Dang, that's easy!

 

I'm not trying to be cruel, but being as vague as that doesn't really help anyone.

 

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

Well, what are your solutions? It's even easier to criticize someone else without offering your own solutions. Let's hear em and I hope they are specific enough.

Your argument does not work at all. It is entirely reasonable to point out that someone's suggested solution to a problem is clearly too vague (like in this case) or even wrong. Whether you yourself can solve the problem is not relevant. (Someone says: "Let's fly to the moon on a hot-air balloon." Someone else says: "You can't do that, mate." This is a fair point to make, even if the second person cannot say how to fly to the moon.)

 

As for my solutions: there aren't any. I don't even think there is a problem.

So your intent was to come in here and criticism with no thoughts of your own? Odd.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

wih: Those are all plausible explanations, but without conducting really extensive surveys, there's no way you can say any of them are true.

 

For instance, I would personally respond that:

 

1) None of that's true, except for the combat log scrolling too fast.

2) Not true. How was it abstract?

3) Not true. Incidentally, the story was rather well written, and in good English (this is my area of expertise, so I won't  hesitate to make claims).

4) This is true in the sense that if you didn't like PoE, you probably won't even try Deadfire.

Nobody will do extensive surveys. Obsidian knows best what are the reasons, because they have the most experience to judge. However they won't tell us so...

 

Nobody knows the reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

nouser: Your suggestions are far too vague to have any meaning. "Better marketing." Sure, but what do you mean by that?

 

Along your line of thinking, here's how we're going to achieve world peace: get all the world leaders together and have them agree on all important questions. Wasn't that easy? Incidentally, if you want to learn to play the flute, here's how to do it: you blow into the hole at the far end and then move your fingers along the holes along its length. Dang, that's easy!

 

I'm not trying to be cruel, but being as vague as that doesn't really help anyone.

 

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

Well, what are your solutions? It's even easier to criticize someone else without offering your own solutions. Let's hear em and I hope they are specific enough.

Your argument does not work at all. It is entirely reasonable to point out that someone's suggested solution to a problem is clearly too vague (like in this case) or even wrong. Whether you yourself can solve the problem is not relevant. (Someone says: "Let's fly to the moon on a hot-air balloon." Someone else says: "You can't do that, mate." This is a fair point to make, even if the second person cannot say how to fly to the moon.)

 

As for my solutions: there aren't any. I don't even think there is a problem.

So your intent was to come in here and criticism with no thoughts of your own? Odd.

 

 

Believe me, pointing out why someone's argument is faulty to the point of being useless is actually a constructive thing to do. I'm sure you can figure out why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

If only your arguments were sound as well.

 

There's no way to examine why one game sells better than another? That "argument" is just as general and vague as the ones you are trying to help. Ofcourse it can be done, it may be speculation or more objective in terms of quality or target audience, but it can be done on game boards or by the companies themselves. What kinds industry would it be if this basic analysis isn't done? I'm not sure you're in a capacity to speak for the entire game industry which is the root of the issue...a general, blanket statement like that has zero merit. It's your opinion with little basis provided.

 

Secondly, your comparison is irrelevant. We are talking about comparing two video games, not an absolute like the impossibility of flying to the moon in a balloon. A more apt comparison would be, comparing why two products, say vacuum cleaners, sold differently. Was it price, quality, or marketing differences? Those are potential reasons.

 

And in the spirit of debate, I'll give you one of the reasons why Divinity sold better - Co Op. The macro trend of the industry is more multiplayer, more ways to enjoy games with others. Also, being heralded as one of the best RPGs ever is another. Sure Deadfire won awards but I have not seen the same level of media attention that Divinity 2 got. So there are some reasons worthy of discussion.

Edited by Verde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Nobody I their right mind would call Divinity one of the best RPG ever as well. Seriously.

 

I mean I like Larian in general and I played the heck out of the original Divine Divinity. But calling any of the Divinity games best RPG ever is like calling Jamie Oliver the best chef ever.

Edited by Boeroer
  • Like 2

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

3. Too much text - difficult for non native English speakers to understand. Probably boring for many native English speakers too.

That's not a mistake. That's access control. Drives away players who can't read three lines without breaking out in a cold sweat and starting to drool. ;)

 

If you think Deadfire has too much text then try a book. That stuff is totally over the top with... letters. ;)

 

I'm no native speaker nor did I ever live in a country where English is the first language. I only have my English lessons from school an the Internet. And books and movies. I have zero problems understanding everything in PoE or Deadfire.

Edited by Boeroer
  • Like 5

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If only your arguments were sound as well.

 

There's no way to examine why one game sells better than another? That "argument" is just as general and vague as the ones you are trying to help. Ofcourse it can be done, it may be speculation or more objective in terms of quality or target audience, but it can be done on game boards or by the companies themselves. What kinds industry would it be if this basic analysis isn't done? I'm not sure you're in a capacity to speak for the entire game industry which is the root of the issue...a general, blanket statement like that has zero merit. It's your opinion with little basis provided.

 

Secondly, your comparison is irrelevant. We are talking about comparing two video games, not an absolute like the impossibility of flying to the moon in a balloon. A more apt comparison would be, comparing why two products, say vacuum cleaners, sold differently. Was it price, quality, or marketing differences? Those are potential reasons.

 

And in the spirit of debate, I'll give you one of the reasons why Divinity sold better - Co Op. The macro trend of the industry is more multiplayer, more ways to enjoy games with others. Also, being heralded as one of the best RPGs ever is another. Sure Deadfire won awards but I have not seen the same level of media attention that Divinity 2 got. So there are some reasons worthy of discussion.

 

I am saying this in the spirit of greatest goodwill possible: there is not point in discussing anything, if you respond to arguments that haven't been made and are unable to read the arguments that have been made. The user thelee recently pointed out that you appear to have problems with reading comprehension, and I have no alternative but to agree. (And if it wasn't you that thelee made this claim about, please accept my sincere apologies. I recall it was you.)

 

Now, if you actually read what I have written and understand what it means, you will notice that I have never said there's no way to examine why one game sells better than the other. In fact, I specifically wrote: "without conducting really extensive surveys". Doesn't that rather strongly imply that I in fact DO think it is possible to examine these questions? It just takes a lot of work -- and I don't think anyone's going to make the effort. But that's beside the point: the fact remains that the work can be done.

 

You bring up many potential reasons for why Deadfire did poorly. Nothing wrong with that. However, the fact remains that none of them are proven to be correct, not even Co Op. Questions like this can be examined and studied, but before and until that is done, all we have is speculation. And even after that, we have no real explanations, we only have a set of plausible narratives, some more so than others.

 

There is one extremely important factor to questions like this, and this has actually been studied mathematically, by Arthur de Vany and others. You can look up the relevant literature to get a better idea. The factor I mean is word of mouth. It works like this: a new product gets good word of mouth or bad word of mouth. This sets a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby one of them does well and the other does poorly. Now, generally, word of mouth is much more significant than marketing. Generally, not always. In addition to this, there is the question of psychological critical mass. This means that once something becomes popular enough (it is impossible to determine exactly what this means in any given instance), its popularity itself is enough to make it more popular -- that's human psychology at work, and it can be seen in all commercial cultures. And conversely, once something is regarded as a failure by enough people, it is almost impossible for that product to reverse its downward spiral. This stuff has been studied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Nobody I their right mind would call Divinity as one of the best RPG ever as well. Seriously.

 

I mean I like Larian in general and I played the heck out of the original Divine Divinity. But calling any of the Divinity games best RPG ever is like calling Jamie Oliver the best chef ever.

Don't shoot the messenger. A simple browse of Metacritic will show you, plus research into all the accolades it's received. Edited by Verde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

Monty you literally said this above, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3. Too much text - difficult for non native English speakers to understand. Probably boring for many native English speakers too.

That's not a mistake. That's access control. Drives away players who can't read three lines without breaking out in a cold sweat and starting to drool. ;)

 

If you think Deadfire has too much text then try a book. That stuff is totally over the top with... letters. ;)

 

That's not fair. I have seen books and I have read some of them. And I am not complaining here. I liked the game and I backed PoE 2. I am fan of the game. The question I am talking about is why PoE 2 didn't sell well. The fact that some people face difficulties reading English prose doesn't mean that such books shouldn't be written and such games shouldn't be made. But I don't think Obsidian wanted PoE 2 to be a game that not many people will play.

To repeat. I am not discussing whether the game is good. It is. A am discussing why the game didn't meet Obsidian's expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As for "explaining" the success of one game versus another, you cannot do that. There's just no way. Too many people buying or not buying a game for too many different reasons.

Monty you literally said this above, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

 

 

Please refer to a dictionary for the difference between examining and explaining. You're embarrassing yourself here. Please stop it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...