Abusing Energized as a Chanter - how good are interrupts?

[Jayd]

I was thinking of cool stuff a single class Chanter might be able to do. They're the only class with access to the Energized inspiration, the special benefit of which is interrupts on all crits. I was thinking it might be a good idea to run one-handed style and try to lock down enemies with interrupts as a melee combat niche. 

 

A max Int Bellower casting empowered Far From Defeated at the beginning of combat with Sasha's Singing Scimitar should have the buff last a very long time and gain back 6 phrases instantly. The alternate weapon can be a warhammer (pierce/crush to compliment scimitar and each unique warhammer has an on-crit effect). Can also use Magerna's Chain to damage enemy recovery even further. As a cherry on top, Thick Grew Their Tongues can invalidate concentration.

 

Not too sure how generally powerful this would actually be, though. I know spamming interrupts is great against casters, but is it useful against melee opponents? Would you need a ton of dexterity to have frequent enough attacks to make this useful? Anybody have experience using this buff?

[MountainTiger]

Interrupts are great against interruptable bosses. I think the Chanter has issues with getting enough crits to matter; it might be worth multiclassing to a class that can help. But I think you'll struggle to get interrupts compared to a class that can spam active interrupt on hit abilities.

 

My most successful Interrupter is a Tactician (multiclassed with Goldpact in my current build, but that part isn't important for the interrupts) spamming Knock Down/Mule Kick. The interrupts can directly regenerate Discipline, ordinary Interrupt immunity doesn't protect enemies, and the prone/knock up effects breaking engagement can actually be favorable for Tactician (e.g. Neriscyrlas's Persistent Distraction means somebody is always flanked when she is on her feet-but when she goes prone it goes away, triggering the 0s tick of Brilliant, which then resets as soon as she's back on her feet).

 

The other source of Energized I'm aware of is Tenacious plus the Slayer's Claw, which opens up other class options (the Claw only binds to Fighter, Barbarian, and Paladin, though I suppose you could use it unbound if you don't have one of those classes on the character you want to use it with).

[thelee]

The other source of Energized I'm aware of is Tenacious plus the Slayer's Claw, which opens up other class options (the Claw only binds to Fighter, Barbarian, and Paladin, though I suppose you could use it unbound if you don't have one of those classes on the character you want to use it with).

edit: holy crap the forums ate my post. here's what i can remember:

 

priests, berserkers, and monks can get good mileage out of slayer's claw (they all have tenacious inspiration access) though priests and monks need to multiclass to really get good use of slayer's claw. i did this with mirke (in combination with intuitive and rapier and stunning surge) and it worked out alright. probably would've worked better if i didn't make mirke my tank and thus she had heavy armor.

 

 

 

single-weapon style isn't your only option. like i mentioned, rapier can be a good choice because +20 accuracy on top of inherent +5 weapon accuracy can give you pretty nice hit chance at many opportunities when dual-wielded. i haven't run the numbers to see what is better, but it's an option.

 

i think mountaintiger is right though that chanters are not as able to take advantage of it: minimal accuracy bonuses, no crit boosts, and very slow-to-use multi-target effects. you'd probably need to multiclass it. also interrupts are mostly useful when you actually interrupt something: incidental interrupts from random crits are nice as a way to slow the enemy down, but not exactly world beating. basically while energized is a nice inspiration, i'm not sure it's exactly something you want to go out of your way to metagame to extreme lengths, you might be disappointed. (again, my mirke had rapier, slayer's claw, intuitive, the monk crit-weakend perk, stunning surge, and it was merely OK. chanter is going to have a lot less than that). But I mean, this is about in line with the other t3 inspirations anyway, they aren't exactly build-arounds or centerpiece strategies (except for brilliant which will forever be awesome)

Edited February 22, 2019 by thelee

[MountainTiger]

After some more consideration: how about Troubador/Beguiler? Borrowed Instinct is a +20 accuracy buff, The Empty Soul is another +10 for spells that target Will. Phantom Foes has a huge radius, casts fast (.5s cast, 4s recovery), and targets Will to get that +30 Accuracy; as a Beguiler, it should usually return more focus than it costs. Mind Blades spends focus, benefits from the +2 Pen part of Energized, and gives a lot of chances at crits once you get down to a few enemies. On the Chanter side, offensive chants with Brisk Recitation give a chance for an AOE interrupt every 3s, and you should have plenty of time to throw out other invocations between reupping Energized. Seems like it could be fun, though PL 6 on a multiclass is reasonably late (and you can probably do more straightforwardly powerful things, of course).

Edited February 22, 2019 by MountainTiger

[Jayd]

After some more consideration: how about Troubador/Beguiler? Borrowed Instinct is a +20 accuracy buff, The Empty Soul is another +10 for spells that target Will. Phantom Foes has a huge radius, casts fast (.5s cast, 4s recovery), and targets Will to get that +30 Accuracy; as a Beguiler, it should usually return more focus than it costs. Mind Blades spends focus, benefits from the +2 Pen part of Energized, and gives a lot of chances at crits once you get down to a few enemies. On the Chanter side, offensive chants with Brisk Recitation give a chance for an AOE interrupt every 3s, and you should have plenty of time to throw out other invocations between reupping Energized. Seems like it could be fun, though PL 6 on a multiclass is reasonably late (and you can probably do more straightforwardly powerful things, of course).

That sounds interesting, thanks for putting thought into it. Truth is, though, I'm primarily interested in playing a SC Bellower to upset mobs with big Eld Narys and dragons. The energized thing was just something I was thinking about to give the character options and a shtick while building phrases. 

[thelee]

After some more consideration: how about Troubador/Beguiler? Borrowed Instinct is a +20 accuracy buff, The Empty Soul is another +10 for spells that target Will. Phantom Foes has a huge radius, casts fast (.5s cast, 4s recovery), and targets Will to get that +30 Accuracy; as a Beguiler, it should usually return more focus than it costs. Mind Blades spends focus, benefits from the +2 Pen part of Energized, and gives a lot of chances at crits once you get down to a few enemies. On the Chanter side, offensive chants with Brisk Recitation give a chance for an AOE interrupt every 3s, and you should have plenty of time to throw out other invocations between reupping Energized. Seems like it could be fun, though PL 6 on a multiclass is reasonably late (and you can probably do more straightforwardly powerful things, of course).

interesting idea. also i love how there never appears to be a chanter problem that troubadour can't fix

 

anitpathetic field or ectopsychic echo might be better than mind blades because you could repeatedly tick on the same target(s), instead of having somethign bounce around semi-randomly.

[thelee]

 

After some more consideration: how about Troubador/Beguiler? Borrowed Instinct is a +20 accuracy buff, The Empty Soul is another +10 for spells that target Will. Phantom Foes has a huge radius, casts fast (.5s cast, 4s recovery), and targets Will to get that +30 Accuracy; as a Beguiler, it should usually return more focus than it costs. Mind Blades spends focus, benefits from the +2 Pen part of Energized, and gives a lot of chances at crits once you get down to a few enemies. On the Chanter side, offensive chants with Brisk Recitation give a chance for an AOE interrupt every 3s, and you should have plenty of time to throw out other invocations between reupping Energized. Seems like it could be fun, though PL 6 on a multiclass is reasonably late (and you can probably do more straightforwardly powerful things, of course).

That sounds interesting, thanks for putting thought into it. Truth is, though, I'm primarily interested in playing a SC Bellower to upset mobs with big Eld Narys and dragons. The energized thing was just something I was thinking about to give the character options and a shtick while building phrases.

 

i'm doing a SC bellower next, also picking up that energized invocation. i'm planning on mostly a) using it as a fun accent to a single-weapon-style sasha's singing weapon (but mostly for the +2 PEN) b) investing heavily in arcana because arcana scales super well as a skill and just tossing out scrolls of binding web to repeatedly interrupt enemies sounds fun (also gives something for a SC chanter to do in between invocations instead of just autoattacking)

Edited February 22, 2019 by thelee

[Jayd]

 

 

After some more consideration: how about Troubador/Beguiler? Borrowed Instinct is a +20 accuracy buff, The Empty Soul is another +10 for spells that target Will. Phantom Foes has a huge radius, casts fast (.5s cast, 4s recovery), and targets Will to get that +30 Accuracy; as a Beguiler, it should usually return more focus than it costs. Mind Blades spends focus, benefits from the +2 Pen part of Energized, and gives a lot of chances at crits once you get down to a few enemies. On the Chanter side, offensive chants with Brisk Recitation give a chance for an AOE interrupt every 3s, and you should have plenty of time to throw out other invocations between reupping Energized. Seems like it could be fun, though PL 6 on a multiclass is reasonably late (and you can probably do more straightforwardly powerful things, of course).

That sounds interesting, thanks for putting thought into it. Truth is, though, I'm primarily interested in playing a SC Bellower to upset mobs with big Eld Narys and dragons. The energized thing was just something I was thinking about to give the character options and a shtick while building phrases.

 

i'm doing a SC bellower next, also picking up that energized invocation. i'm planning on mostly a) using it as a fun accent to a single-weapon-style sasha's singing weapon (but mostly for the +2 PEN) b) investing heavily in arcana because arcana scales super well as a skill and just tossing out scrolls of binding web to repeatedly interrupt enemies sounds fun (also gives something for a SC chanter to do in between invocations instead of just autoattacking)

 

Nice, sounds like we were thinking along similar lines. I also planned to go the scrolls route. It'll probably be a while before I actually start this character (if I actually do) so I may ping you to find out how it plays, with your permission.

[MountainTiger]

After a bit of testing, it seems like offensive chants do not interrupt on crit with Energized up, which takes a lot of spice out of Troubadour as a subclass.

[thelee]

After a bit of testing, it seems like offensive chants do not interrupt on crit with Energized up, which takes a lot of spice out of Troubadour as a subclass.

 

dang. those chants are weird in many ways. fortunately my bellower wasn't relying on this interaction.

[Jayd]

After a bit of testing, it seems like offensive chants do not interrupt on crit with Energized up, which takes a lot of spice out of Troubadour as a subclass.

Seems weird for an attribute inspiration to be that specific. Maybe a bug report is in order?

[MountainTiger]

I'm not entirely sure it's a bug, but it's probably worth reporting when I can grab a screenshot and save.

 

In broad terms the Spiritualist is still doing what I wanted, but I think the plan for the Chanter side is a bit more open without the Brisk Recitation for passive interrupts plan. Spending phrases has been a bit awkward for a character who wants to spam Cipher spells, so I think I will look at a linger-based plan.

[Frak]

I got the impression when reading description of the inspiration, that it only works with weapon attacks. I might have misunderstood.

[MountainTiger]

Energized is "Attacks interrupt on crit", not "Weapon attacks interrupt on crit", which means it works with non-weapon attacks like spells (I have tested this and it works correctly for things like Phantom Foes). The chants are apparently not considered attacks, though, either intentionally or as a quirk of their implementation.

[Raven Darkholme]

Energized is "Attacks interrupt on crit", not "Weapon attacks interrupt on crit", which means it works with non-weapon attacks like spells (I have tested this and it works correctly for things like Phantom Foes). The chants are apparently not considered attacks, though, either intentionally or as a quirk of their implementation.

What makes you say chants are not considered attacks?

In Deadfire(might have been different in PoE1, don't remember) chants can interrupt last time I tested it (not too long ago) and interrupts with chants are pretty easy to get if you switch between soft winds and dragon chants depending on lower enemy defense vs fort or reflex, having some hit to crit conversion also helps.

Thing is interrupts are much weaker (shorter) in this game compared to Poe1, so unless you are up against dangerous spellcasters they are almost useless.

[MountainTiger]

I was mostly using The Long Night's Drink; maybe only the damaging chants can interrupt? The combat logs clearly showed crits with no interrupt.

[thelee]

 

Thing is interrupts are much weaker (shorter) in this game compared to Poe1, so unless you are up against dangerous spellcasters they are almost useless.

 

 

uh.... in PoE1 the longest interrupt was like 1s (morningstars maybe longer) and you could not interrupt someone already interrupted. In Deadfire the standard interrupt is +2s (prone is +2s recovery with a simultaneous 3s animation to stand up), and you can repeatedly interrupt the same target and push them back to the longer of their current recovery or 2s.

 

in Deadfire it's not too hard to interrupt-lock a boss until they die. Such a thing was virtually impossible in PoE1.

 

interrupts in PoE1 were pure murk.

 

edit: it's not unreasonable for mountaintiger to speculate that chants don't count as attacks. chants literally function like nothing else in the game. they don't even PL scale, they use a very chanter-specific level-based scaling that occurs nowhere else in the game. even in PoE1 chants occupied a really weird zone (they benefited from single-weapon style accuracy bonus, but not other weapon accuracy bonuses). i don't think it would be too hard to verify with a come, come or dragon thrashed which of you is correct (but i'm at work now)

Edited February 27, 2019 by thelee

[Raven Darkholme]

I was mostly using The Long Night's Drink; maybe only the damaging chants can interrupt? The combat logs clearly showed crits with no interrupt.

Yes, only the damaging chants can interrupt.

 

 

 

 

Thing is interrupts are much weaker (shorter) in this game compared to Poe1, so unless you are up against dangerous spellcasters they are almost useless.

 

 

uh.... in PoE1 the longest interrupt was like 1s (morningstars maybe longer) and you could not interrupt someone already interrupted. In Deadfire the standard interrupt is +2s (prone is +2s recovery with a simultaneous 3s animation to stand up), and you can repeatedly interrupt the same target and push them back to the longer of their current recovery or 2s.

 

in Deadfire it's not too hard to interrupt-lock a boss until they die. Such a thing was virtually impossible in PoE1.

 

interrupts in PoE1 were pure murk.

 

edit: it's not unreasonable for mountaintiger to speculate that chants don't count as attacks. chants literally function like nothing else in the game. they don't even PL scale, they use a very chanter-specific level-based scaling that occurs nowhere else in the game. even in PoE1 chants occupied a really weird zone (they benefited from single-weapon style accuracy bonus, but not other weapon accuracy bonuses). i don't think it would be too hard to verify with a come, come or dragon thrashed which of you is correct (but i'm at work now)

 

I never tried an actual interrupt based build in deadfire but I did have an interrupt barb in Poe1 so maybe it seemed much more powerful because I equipped and leveled it purely for interrupt.

 

I never said it's unreasonable for him to assume they were not attacks, just wondering why he would think they don't interrupt because they are not attacks, but he already posted he didn't use the damaging chants so obviously thats why they didn't interrupt.

[thelee]

I never said it's unreasonable for him to assume they were not attacks, just wondering why he would think they don't interrupt because they are not attacks, but he already posted he didn't use the damaging chants so obviously thats why they didn't interrupt.

 

 

just makes the chants extra weird though because IIRC non-damaging aoe spells with crits under energized will interrupt, no?

Edited February 27, 2019 by thelee

[MountainTiger]

Tested Come, Come Soft Winds and it does interrupt, but there seems to be a bug where the combat log filters out the interrupts when only looking at the chanter's actions (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/108732-character-filter-in-combat-log-drops-interrupt/).

[Dr <3]

So dragon thrashed chanter ( trobadour) with flail ( for lower reflex) can be a thing? I never thought it would be possible to build around interruption, but this can indeed be promising, free unlimited aoe interruption are strong.

 

There are item or weapons that buff interruption time?

 

Btw maybe a multiclass with a barb ( berserker) can be even stronger than SC troubadour. You can still get a lot of energized with berserker frenzy + soulboud axe from SSS (+1 tier to might boost), and you get some good passives and the shouts. Maybe even monk can be an option if it is "soulbandable" with slayer claw.

[Raven Darkholme]

As I said I didn't like the interrupt time from the chant it seemed useless against anything but casters, but if there is items to buff interrupt duration this might be different.

Ofc you could also compliment it with a weapon with actual long interrupt time and ofc a barbarian/chanter mc as you said.