What's the best way to heal?

[Marigoldran]

Debuffs have to hit to be effective, which in the really tough fights make them useless.  

Edited December 28, 2018 by Marigoldran

[guildwriter]

My 2 ghost wolves do that and later in battle, summons. Sometimes I don't even get hit in fights because the enemy is knee deep in summons. So like I said, I mostly don't have any problems.

 

And another reason I don't like CC characters is that they split the team. It's easier to control the team when it can move as one. Then all buffs and chanter abilities are always applied. If fight goes badly, I can just disband and leave the summons fighting. Grab some air and come back.

 

What I dislike about paralyze, blind and whatever else afflictions on enemies is that they are unreliable. I've found that most enemies that are vulnerable to those are easy to just kill. Enemies that are hard to kill are usually immune to those effects anyway. It's like that in all rpgs. In no rpg I know of you kill difficult enemies by stunlocking them immobile. And since it's always accuracy vs something roll, my accuracy with affliction abilities is usually like 30% so the ability is often wasted. And even if it hits, the duration isn't particularly long compared to the enemy's hit points. If there was a way to reliably parazyle an enemy for like 30 seconds and it always worked, then I would consider that good. I like reliable and universally applicable abilities. For example I think it's always much better to bless your own team than curse the enemy, because your own team is never immune to blessings and when you kill a single enemy, you lose the benefits of the curse.

 

Anyway, I'll try some priest multiclass with as high dexterity as possible to reduce cast time. 

 

 

I somewhat understand this idea that "CC is trash because it doesn't work on boss fights" but honestly I think it's a bit silly.  There's no "difficult" enemy in this game where I've ever thought I needed summons or infinite resources with a party.  But that's what I like about this game.  Everyone is free to play however they please and it all works.  Unless you solo.  Then you pull out the degenerate stuff  .

 

There is a way to make CC reliable.  Make your Accuracy as high as possible (and shaft their defenses).  One of my favorite combos is Assassin + Caster for this exact reason.  With the right setups I can CC lock the entire enemy group and they all die in a hail of spells before they even can move.  +25 Acc from Assassin and +10 from Helm of the White Void means that if I can't CC the targets outright, I can usually make the hole to do so.

 

As another example.  Take the Magma Dragon fight I did last night.  Utterly clownstomped her because my Assassin+BW stacked hit to crit, loaded up on +Action Speed through DAOM + Modwyr + Rust's Poignard Shank enchant.  Hit her with Confounding Blind and dropped her deflection to 10.  This meant not only were at least a graze guaranteed, my main was critting more often than not.  Which meant that Rust's Bring Down was proccing more often than not.  Which means she didn't spend a lot of time vertical.  That's not even mentioning what everyone else was doing. 

 

I'm not mentioning this to discount the way you play the game.  If you like summon armies that's great.  I'm saying this because it seems like you don't really know how to effectively use other strategies in this game.  Hopefully it gives you some ideas and maybe sparks some interest in another run.

[Boeroer]

If you can't land a debuff then you also can't land a normal hit, right?

 

It's always the same:

 

Buff your ACC in order to land a debuff which lowers the defenses in order to deal more damage. The road to victory. Everything else is just fooling around (just my opinion).

 

That's the reason why modals like Body Blows, Bewildering Blows and such are so powerful. -25 to a defense is great.

 

One example: Geomancer with a club or Willbreaker, Stalker's Link and all the other ACC stuff, Miasma, Eldritch Aim, Concelhaut's Draining Touch and Essential Phantom can reliably buff his ACC so he can reliably debuff enemies' Will by 65+ and then let the Phantom crit the enemy to death with endless draining touches which target will. You can overcome every defense in the game with this because it has a) ACC buff, b) defense debuff and c) means to deal damage. If you can achieve the same with other combos you win. There are other ways to win - but in my opinion those three steps are the quintessence of PoE combat. Who doesn't buff + debuff makes combat more difficult. Which might be intended...

Edited December 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[Climhazzard]

If you can't land a debuff then you also can't land a normal hit, right?

 

It's always the same:

 

Buff your ACC in order to land a debuff which lowers the defenses in order to deal more damage. The road to victory. Everything else is just fooling around (just my opinion).

 

That's the reason why modals like Body Blows, Bewildering Blows and such are so powerful. -25 to a defense is great.

 

One example: Geomancer with a club or Willbreaker, Stalker's Link and all the other ACC stuff, Miasma, Eldritch Aim, Concelhaut's Draining Touch and Essential Phantom can reliably buff his ACC so he can reliably debuff enemies' Will by 65+ and then let the Phantom crit the enemy to death with endless draining touches which target will. You can overcome every defense in the game with this because it has a) ACC buff, b) defense debuff and c) means to deal damage. If you can achieve the same with other combos you win. There are other ways to win - but in my opinion those three steps are the quintessence of PoE combat. Who doesn't buff + debuff makes combat more difficult. Which might be intended...

 

Does this combo only work with the 2nd phantasm spell?  I've seen you mention it a few times but when I tried it the phantasm just gets my normal weapons and not the draining touch....?

[Marigoldran]

If you can't land a debuff then you also can't land a normal hit, right?

 

It's always the same:

 

Buff your ACC in order to land a debuff which lowers the defenses in order to deal more damage. The road to victory. Everything else is just fooling around (just my opinion).

 

That's the reason why modals like Body Blows, Bewildering Blows and such are so powerful. -25 to a defense is great.

 

One example: Geomancer with a club or Willbreaker, Stalker's Link and all the other ACC stuff, Miasma, Eldritch Aim, Concelhaut's Draining Touch and Essential Phantom can reliably buff his ACC so he can reliably debuff enemies' Will by 65+ and then let the Phantom crit the enemy to death with endless draining touches which target will. You can overcome every defense in the game with this because it has a) ACC buff, b) defense debuff and c) means to deal damage. If you can achieve the same with other combos you win. There are other ways to win - but in my opinion those three steps are the quintessence of PoE combat. Who doesn't buff + debuff makes combat more difficult. Which might be intended...

 

or you could just grind everything down with Brand Enemy, Gouging Strikes, Summons, endless renewable resources, and sheer tankiness, and add in a monk or two if you encounter an endlessly regenerating enemy (and there's only one or two in the game).  

 

Who needs offense when you have defense and eternal and renewable DOTs? Who cares if your damage and accuracy is low, if your enemy can never kill you and you can slowly kill them? 

 

it doesn't matter if you miss 80% of the time and underpenetrate because even if you do an average of 2 damage per attack, you'll still eventually win (just turn the game speed to fast) because they can't kill you.  

Edited December 28, 2018 by Marigoldran

[Ensign]

I somewhat understand this idea that "CC is trash because it doesn't work on boss fights" but honestly I think it's a bit silly.

 

Plus on the handful of bosses where CC does work (Grub Queen, SSS Gator) you can just trivially stunlock them to death, trivializing the encounters.  It's pretty obvious why it's the way it is.

 

Also as you mention a lot of lesser CC still work - interrupts and knockdowns can shut down all the big hitting attacks.  Downgraded stun and downgraded terrify still daze and frighten, mitigating a substantial amount of threat.  Most might/dex/res resistant intellect immune mobs have no resistance to blind, and while it's not valued so highly since it's so common getting that blind on there makes a big difference.

[Boeroer]

Being tanky and grind stuff and buffing/debuffig is not mutually exclusive. You have to hit with some attacks at some point in order to win. And if you can hit more reliably then you win more easily.

 

A single class Monk is also very powerful because he can stack high amounts of Accuracy through Dance of Death (+12), scaling Transcendent Suffering (+14 mythic ACC bonus) and Razor's Edge (+10) while he can weaken the enemy, interrupt them or stun them. Stunned enemies can't fight back an weakened enemies can't heal well. Which means they die faster as if you would only pummle them with auto-attacks.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[Climhazzard]

Who needs offense when you have defense and eternal and renewable DOTs? Who cares if your damage and accuracy is low, if your enemy can never kill you and you can slowly kill them? 

 

 

 

 

"Slowly kill them"  You answered the first question with the 2nd....

 

Just like the guy the other day bragging he could kill the steal preacher in 40 minutes with 2 Heralds...  Wtf I'd rather kill him in a couple minutes thank you very much.

[Marigoldran]

No you really don't.  You don't have to hit with ANY attacks to win thanks to brand enemy and soft winds of death.  They're auto hits, as is the first wizard missile spell.  

 

The only problem is when you run into yourself (Soul mirror) or Eatons (who regen).  Then it's a draw but your computer eventually crashes because it runs out of resources.  So for those fights bring a monk or two or cheese it. 

 

EDIT: Yes, but he killed it without having to use his brain or much of any effort at all.  Turn speed onto fast, set the AI to summon stuff, and then just sit there.  Can you say the same about your kill? 

 

EDIT 2: I should consider doing a run where every party member has 3 perception and might and show how it's done.  

Edited December 28, 2018 by Marigoldran

[Flucas]

 

If you can't land a debuff then you also can't land a normal hit, right?

 

It's always the same:

 

Buff your ACC in order to land a debuff which lowers the defenses in order to deal more damage. The road to victory. Everything else is just fooling around (just my opinion).

 

That's the reason why modals like Body Blows, Bewildering Blows and such are so powerful. -25 to a defense is great.

 

One example: Geomancer with a club or Willbreaker, Stalker's Link and all the other ACC stuff, Miasma, Eldritch Aim, Concelhaut's Draining Touch and Essential Phantom can reliably buff his ACC so he can reliably debuff enemies' Will by 65+ and then let the Phantom crit the enemy to death with endless draining touches which target will. You can overcome every defense in the game with this because it has a) ACC buff, b) defense debuff and c) means to deal damage. If you can achieve the same with other combos you win. There are other ways to win - but in my opinion those three steps are the quintessence of PoE combat. Who doesn't buff + debuff makes combat more difficult. Which might be intended...

 

or you could just grind everything down with Brand Enemy, Gouging Strikes, Summons, endless renewable resources, and sheer tankiness, and add in a monk or two if you encounter an endlessly regenerating enemy (and there's only one or two in the game).  

 

Who needs offense when you have defense and eternal and renewable DOTs? Who cares if your damage and accuracy is low, if your enemy can never kill you and you can slowly kill them? 

 

it doesn't matter if you miss 80% of the time and underpenetrate because even if you do an average of 2 damage per attack, you'll still eventually win (just turn the game speed to fast) because they can't kill you.  

 

Christ dude stop this crap. You are flooding the forums with cheese tactics EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS. Move on.

[Marigoldran]

But I'm just responding to what others say.  And a lot of people don't know it. You're making an invalid assumption.  

[Boeroer]

Recommending Whispers of the Wind as healing solution was sure a great response to what other people said...

[Marigoldran]

Whispers of the Wind IS a healing solution because you're invulnerable when you use it and you're invisible for a short period, which gives time for regen and healing effects to act on you.  I've noticed that when you're in the Whispers animation you can't be hurt.  

 

Also, his broader problem is that his strikers are dying, and my solution is "just use a tankier striker" and whispers of the wind for the invulnerability and invisibility frames.    

Edited December 28, 2018 by Marigoldran

[Boeroer]

Self-delusion is so powerful...

[Marigoldran]

yes, but everyone is self-deluded.  Only those truly enlightened can understand it.

 

Hence: monks.  

Edited December 28, 2018 by Marigoldran

[Boeroer]

 

If you can't land a debuff then you also can't land a normal hit, right?

 

It's always the same:

 

Buff your ACC in order to land a debuff which lowers the defenses in order to deal more damage. The road to victory. Everything else is just fooling around (just my opinion).

 

That's the reason why modals like Body Blows, Bewildering Blows and such are so powerful. -25 to a defense is great.

 

One example: Geomancer with a club or Willbreaker, Stalker's Link and all the other ACC stuff, Miasma, Eldritch Aim, Concelhaut's Draining Touch and Essential Phantom can reliably buff his ACC so he can reliably debuff enemies' Will by 65+ and then let the Phantom crit the enemy to death with endless draining touches which target will. You can overcome every defense in the game with this because it has a) ACC buff, b) defense debuff and c) means to deal damage. If you can achieve the same with other combos you win. There are other ways to win - but in my opinion those three steps are the quintessence of PoE combat. Who doesn't buff + debuff makes combat more difficult. Which might be intended...

Does this combo only work with the 2nd phantasm spell? I've seen you mention it a few times but when I tried it the phantasm just gets my normal weapons and not the draining touch....?

You cast Draining Touch, you cast Essential Phantom and voila. Unless this got patched out with the latest patch. Don't hope so...

[guildwriter]

I've used it a lot recently.  Can confirm it still works.

[Boeroer]

Thanks!