Are the Huana the worst? [spoilers]

[uuuhhii]

what best for ruautai are stop them to be imperialistic thug just try to strong arm everyone and everything

what they think they want are not what they need

and anti caste system was never a strong argument against huana

support vtc rdc just make one more caste on the top

old blood maybe even worse

new blood will break everything which may include caste system and everyone alive

Edited February 21, 2019 by uuuhhii

[TheMarbleNest]

I'm not exactly sure that the Huana mean well, when I see them systematically oppressing a group of their people, the Roparu (?) in the name of their traditional cast system.  Do they have the potential to grow out of that?  I think we'd all like to think "yes", but I'm not so sure.  Caste systems historically seem very difficult to break, I think.  And a conqueror might find it easier to break the Huana caste system rather than the Huana doing it themselves.

 

 

Regardless, it's a very interesting thing to think about and discuss.  And I agree with the final sentence above.

 

 

I suppose for myself, I have a hope for it to break both from the actions and words the Watcher can offer regarding the disparity in the castes - as well as people like Tekehu. Those forward thinkers who, while dedicated to the Huana people, can still see potential for change. And more so, are willing to strive towards that despite the likelihood of it being a difficult road. In the end, should the Huana grow beyond their traditionalist caste system, I believe they would be far better off for the struggle than they might be under the thumb of the VTC or RDC. It may not be change that is quite so... immediate, as the other two might offer/force upon them. But it may pay off far better for the whole of the Huana people, over the long term. 

 

Of course, I may simply be just as naive as my first Watcher! But it's the hope for a better future, free of conquerors, that would push me towards supporting the Huana efforts over the rest... while none-too-subtly badgering them about the problems their caste system presents.   

[Father Jyrgunkarrd]

Necro'd as I play through Deadfire again: 

Answer to question: No. 

Literally every faction has poverty and a deeply red ledger. "PILES OF BODIES!" is not a good criticism when talking about the nation states in question because literally every one of them has piles and piles and piles of bodies they are resting on top of - it's just that Neketara's pile of bodies is literal and right in front of you instead of spread across the archipelago and woven into shipwrecks. 

The critiques of Aeldys in the thread are just priceless to me given that everyone seems to fundamentally agree with her outlook: that every one of the nation states in question is bad, has bad leadership and are hopelessly corrupt. Like, literally everyone in this thread agrees with that axiom. But somehow Aeldys is bad because she says it outright and acts on it? 

The RDC is straight-up fascist. Like, even if one sets aside that they are clearly modeled after fascist-Imperial WWII Japan and agrees with the utilitarian arguments (utilitarianism is a bankrupt ethics philosophy that nobody whose gone beyond philosophy 101 believes has any merit at all, but ANYWAY), there is a fash dude you meet in the Brass Citadel that explains both explicitly and implicitly that he has hijacked the RDC's political death machine for personal gain & racist ends. So it doesn't matter what merits the machine might or might not have in a dispassionate sense, because they have lost control of it to demagogues & corruption. Because of course they would. That's what always happens with such state machinery in the end. Like, just consider for a moment the long list of people that are just never going to be on the political-assassination-for-the-greater-good list, and why they are never going to be on it (hint: it will have nothing to do with outcomes and everything to do with their political power). 

The VTC is a pretty blunt and obvious critique of capitalism and how it is unable to reconcile its practices with existential dangers. In this plot, Adra Pillars are a barely veiled metaphor for climate change. 


Honestly, the only right answer here is just to say **** it and go listen to poetry in the Wild Mare until doomsday comes, because adventure & literature is probably the only thing in the world worth preserving. 

[yorname]

To this day I still don't get how Ruauatai is modeled after imperial Japan when the biggest war crime they can put in the game is murdering a small number of civilians. Any country trying to militarily control lands that belong to another is going to do way worse than how they wrote Ruauatai.

Japan was only special because they were very barbaric by 20th century standard, let's don't pretend war was civil at any moment of our history.

And what did we get in the game? There's not even a case in Deadfire that's comparable to that story you learned in PoE1 from souls and Maerwald, and the latter was the norm in history.

If writers said themselves they modeled them after IJ, they missed the point, period.

 

The writers fxxked up big time when trying to draw parallels from real world politics. Instead of portraying how indigenous people struggled when facing more powerful opponents, they were just given Wakanda cheats (watershaping) and fairy tale level of social reforms if you side with them. They wanted to talk about militarism but the worst they could do was assassinating a couple of local leaders. It's all sugarcoated to the point that you can't have any meaningful discussion about the topic anymore.

[yorname]

Also I want to add that even though it is true that some Japanese politicians justified themselves with "levitating and educating our Asian brothers", the mass didn't really think that way. It's a more simple war, victory, rich! mindset.

In the game you can see ordinary Ruauatai sailors or captains **** on Huana culture, although there's some truth in it, it's not a iconic part of imperial Japan thinking. In fact it's much more similar to white colonizers that saw everyone else as barbarians.

Edited September 10 by yorname

[IanTheWizard]

I originally decided to side with the Rauatai because the Huana queen's proposal went beyond my bottom line. But I eventually sided with the Huana because I later found that the Rauatai's proposal was more absurd.

Regarding the watershapers exploiting a dragon, only the watershaper guild knew that secret as far as I know, and the rest of the Huana were totally unaware of that.

Although the Huana's caste system is not good, it can be improved. For example, there is a quest letting you convince the Huana prince to distribute more food to the Roparu.

Overall, I hardly think the Huana are the worst. In fact, they can be reasoned with most of the time. At the very least, they don't rob and plunder other people's ships like the pirates do, do they?

Edited September 23 by IanTheWizard