How's Psion for a Melee Cipher Build?

[MaxQuest]

^ Iirc Beguiler's Soul Whip adds 20% dmg bonus, while Draining Whip only 10%.

[Ensign]

Yep, for a Beguiler, Soul Whip does +20% damage.  Biting Whip also does +20% damage (trait does nothing) and Draining Whip reduces Soul Whip to 10% damage (but +100% focus gain).

 

I think it got caught up in the great damage mod nerf right before launch and no one looked at it to make sure it still made sense.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Ensign

[Elric Galad]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 12:59 AM, Ensign said:

Yep, for a Beguiler, Soul Whip does +20% damage.  Biting Whip also does +20% damage (trait does nothing) and Draining Whip reduces Soul Whip to 10% damage (but +100% focus gain).

 

I think it got caught up in the great damage mod nerf right before launch and no one looked at it to make sure it still made sense.

Is it still true ? I remember there was a change about beguiler in patch 4.1.0. 

[Boeroer]

Yes, it was patched. Beguiler + Draining Whip is very strong now.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:56 AM, Elric Galad said:

Is it still true ? I remember there was a change about beguiler in patch 4.1.0. 

It is actually still true. Here how it looks in the current v4.1.2: screenshot. (obligatory: 'wow,  such upgrade, amazing' doge.jpg)

Those beguiler related fixes that were added in v4.1.0 were fixing other problems:

Quote

• Beguiler bonus Focus will now be granted correctly if hitting multiple targets at the same time.
• Beguiler Focus will regenerate properly.
• Ciphers will receive focus for their first attack when attacking from stealth.

Edited May 2, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Elric Galad]

Ah, that's sad. Still a good subclass.

Probably a better Psion than Psion overall, even when combined with a semi-martial caster (Wizard, maybe cat druid).

[Boeroer]

Oh, I didn't even notice that Beguiler's Draining Whip reduces dmg. Maybe because as a Beguiler you actually don't use weapon attacks a lot since with the fixes from 4.1 you get much more focus from just casting an AoE deception spell if you have Draining Whip.

Still... this should get fixed. Biting Whip doing nothing is unacceptable - and Draining Whip reducing dmg is a bit weird (but not unbalanced actually, I could live with that).

[MaxQuest]

I have took a look at beguiler's status effects, and:

> Beguiler's Soul Whip is actually separated in two effects:
- Soul_Whip_Beguiler_SE_DamageMult: 

"StatusEffectType": "DamageMultiplier",
"BaseValue": 1.1,
"ExtraValue": 1.2, // (this is used for tooltip)
"AttackFilter": {
  "Source": "Weapon",
}
"AttackTargetFilter": { // (only applied vs flanked, or mind or body affected enemies)
  "KeywordsIDs": [
    "8ca098ca-731e-481d-b958-a337064afd6c",
    "13d9f275-8a57-4f99-9ead-ef798ce7c53a",
    "ae8eaf9c-6fdc-4c63-9aac-8ee874082c0f"
  ],
  "KeywordLogic": "Or",
}

- Soul_Whip_Beguiler_SE_DamageMultReduced:

"StatusEffectType": "DamageMultiplier",
"BaseValue": 1.1,
"ExtraValue": 0, 
"AttackFilter": {
  "Source": "Weapon",
}
"AttackTargetFilter": { // (i.e. applied vs everyone)
  "KeywordsIDs": [],
}

-----------

> Beguiler's Biting Whip is also separated in two:
- Biting_Whip_Beguiler_SE_DamageMult:

"StatusEffectType": "DamageMultiplier",
"BaseValue": 1.1,
"ExtraValue": 0,
"AttackFilter": {
  "Source": "Weapon",
}
"AttackTargetFilter": { // (only applied vs flanked, or mind or body affected enemies)
  "KeywordsIDs": [
    "8ca098ca-731e-481d-b958-a337064afd6c",
    "13d9f275-8a57-4f99-9ead-ef798ce7c53a",
    "ae8eaf9c-6fdc-4c63-9aac-8ee874082c0f"
  ],
  "KeywordLogic": "Or",
}

- Biting_Whip_Beguiler_SE_DamageMultReduced:

"StatusEffectType": "DamageMultiplier",
"BaseValue": 1.2,
"ExtraValue": 1.2, 
"AttackFilter": {
  "Source": "Weapon",
}
"AttackTargetFilter": { // (i.e. applied vs everyone)
  "KeywordsIDs": [],
}

-----------

TL.DR: Beguiler's Soul Whip gives +0.1 damage coefficient with weapon attacks. And an additional +0.1 if the targeted enemy is flanked or affected by body affliction or affected by mind affliction.

Beguiler's Biting Whip gives +0.2 damage coefficient with weapon attacks. And an additional +0.1 if the targeted enemy is flanked or affected by body affliction or affected by mind affliction.

Both tooltips are vague and partially incorrect.

-----------

P.S. Also, in case someone doesn't know beguiler's bonus focus restoration values: he gets (5 + 1 per PL) when casting a power on an enemy that is flanked or affected by body affliction or affected by mind affliction. 

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Still... this should get fixed. Biting Whip doing nothing is unacceptable

So it actually does something... but tooltip doesn't reflect that. Still I think +0.1 weapon damage coef, is laughable in comparison to +100% focus gained from Draining Whip)

Even with the 20% raw lash (from the poll results) instead of the current +0.1 coef, I wonder if I'll ever take it.

Edited May 2, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Elric Galad]

Wizard + Beguiler should be nice.
With Chillfog => Secret Horror => Mind Plague => Mental Binding you can debuff all 6 attributes and ends up with possibly more focus than you initially had.
Plus with Llengrath Grimoire, you have most of the necessary Tools for a spellsword build including Spirit Lance and Alacrity and save Ability points for the Cipher side and passives.
Wizard are almost a martial class.

The best multiclass for Psion should be priest since it has the least martial potential and it is the class that can benefit the most for Cipher's low level CC.
Priest also wants high Int, so there's a bit of synergy there.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

4 minutes ago, MaxQuest said:

TL.DR: Beguiler's Soul Whip gives +0.1 damage coefficient with weapon attacks. And an additional +0.1 if the targeted enemy is flanked or affected by body affliction or affected by mind affliction.

Is it also applicable to Draining Whip ?

[MaxQuest]

^ Yes:

> Beguiler's Draining Whip
- Biting_Whip_Beguiler_SE_DamageMult:

"StatusEffectType": "DamageMultiplier",
"BaseValue": 1.1,
"ExtraValue": 0,
"AttackFilter": {
  "Source": "Weapon",
}
"AttackTargetFilter": { // (only applied vs flanked, or mind or body affected enemies)
  "KeywordsIDs": [
    "8ca098ca-731e-481d-b958-a337064afd6c",
    "13d9f275-8a57-4f99-9ead-ef798ce7c53a",
    "ae8eaf9c-6fdc-4c63-9aac-8ee874082c0f"
  ],
  "KeywordLogic": "Or",
}

- Draining_Whip_Beguiler_SE_DamageMultReduced:

"StatusEffectType": "DamageMultiplier",
"BaseValue": 1.1,
"ExtraValue": 1.1, 
"AttackFilter": {
  "Source": "Weapon",
}
"AttackTargetFilter": { // (i.e. applied vs everyone)
  "KeywordsIDs": [],
}