Looking for build advice - Assassin/Skaen priest

[Exanos]

Hi!

 

After a bunch of reading and some testing ( i have a heavy "restart" affliction...) i'm looking for some advices on an assassin build. I don't care too much about "Most OP" build, just looking for viable (difficulty : POE all upscalled) and RP one's .

 

1) Build concept :

Heavy hitter comming from stealh/invis to delete foe in seconds while they are looking elsewhere (party build, no solo). Maximizing backstab.

 

2) Class i see fitting :

option 1 : Assassin/bleakwalker 

option 2 : Assassin/soulblade

option 3 : Assassin/Fighter or Assassin/Monk

option 4 : Assassin/Priest of skaen

 

Options 1 - 3 are good but i fear quite boring after sometimes. So i'm turning to option 4 cause :

-> Fit the RP of an assassin.

-> You can buff yourself while in stealth mode (letting your tanks aggro and your crowd controller starting afflicting key target)

-> Skaen give you acces to :

        - Good buffs;

        - Guile free rogue's spells (invisibility is costly...) allowing you to surf across the battlefield with lot of backstab;

        - some survivability in "oh****" moment (Barring Death Door...) ;

        - throwing spell as backup when melee is dangerous;

        - good backup weapon (priest summoned one) when no more backstab possibility (2h->dualwield with a "free" weapon slot);

 

Wael could be an option for more survivability but it may be more usefull on other rogue class. This one shouldn't be targetted that much.

 

3) Questions / advices needed :

 

a - Weapon choice :

 

For backstab, 2h seem the best choice (only main hand trigger backstab). I'm considering engaging with Dragon's Dowry for double tap (75% speed reload when quitting stealth) or a 2h melee ->  which one ? Is Greatsword Wotep a good choice? it has low base damage but aoe (not sure if bacstab proc in aoe).

 

After all backstabs are done, i fall back to priest summoned weapon.

 

b - Viability / fun factor in mid-late game in POE upscalled 

 

Your though on it ? :D

 

thanks!

 

 

[Boeroer]

I played an Assassin/Priest of Skaen as hireling for a whole playthrough and can say that it's a good combo. I mostly used the Red Hand.

 

Add Slippers of the Assassin and you'll haves lots of invisibility uses per encounter.

 

Lots of times I scouted forth with that guy and did several encounters solo because it was so much fun to kill, - then vanish, then kill, vanish and so on.

[guildwriter]

I'm currently piloting an Assassin/Priest of Skaen in PotD solo upscaled.  Have cleared Nemnok/Kraken/Pirate Ships (early and endgame) so far and playing BoW for a break from normal content.  Here are some thoughts.

• If you want big damage numbers, go bleak walker.  With the upgraded FoD lash, you can delete people effectively when all of your damage buffs line up.  Less options but more friendly to micro when you have a full party to deal with (less to think about).
• I tried and rejected Assassin/Soulblade as if your character opens up from stealth outside of combat, you will not get credited cipher resources for that first hit.  This I found enraging, but I like solo so this is especially bad.  This can be a really rewarding route to go down as charm is OP.  Damage in general is likely to be higher.
• Another option is playing Assassin/Wizard and using one of the Arkymyr tomes for his escape spell.  It's quite potent but super finicky.  Dots DO break its invisibility, BUT you can cast certain kinds of spells at will and not have it break the invis.
• In the end I chose Skaen as it effectively gives you 12 guile and frees you from having to make those skill picks.  I like playing around stealth and this setup gave the most opportunity for that.
• You cannot buff in stealth.
• Spiritual Weapon is okay but honestly better served by using real weapons.  Also getting full Sneaky and Cruel reps is actually difficult and there are "benevolent" reputation trap choices that the game doesn't tell you about until AFTER you've selected the dialogue option.  So Skaen RP can be a pain.  Not that priest rep does all that much to begin with: holy radiance and spiritual weapon lash.
• Wael is a safer choice if you want him to solo take on the backline as the defensive options through deflection stacking are much more potent.  This is more of a playstyle thing.  Re-stealthing can be a potent way to avoid damage as well, but it requires a lot of micro.
• Backstab does not proc AoE IIRC, just the first target.
• Dragon's Dowry is probably the best 2H choice before you can get Chronoprismatic Staff.  Can get within 2m to backstab.  Downsides are unfit for melee debuff and can't engage using ranged weapons.  Other noteworthy early pickups are Amra and Eager Blade.
• WotEP is good for applying rogue abilities in AoE format.  Mass arterial/gouging/toxic is enormous value.  Can upgrade to have the ability Run Through which does extreme damage 1/encounter when combined with Assassinate and Backstab.  Will just about one shot most things that are even level and higher.  If the damage from the attack doesn't kill them, the dot likely will.
• If you want a alternative Dual Wield option: Stalker's Patience and Rust's Poignard.  Get the Mask of Grotto's Deep and Hylea's Gauntlets and just stack raw damage on people.  Also gives an additional stealth if you want it through Rust's.  If you want to ensure penetration, get a sabre instead of Stalker's.  Tarn's or Grave Calling work well.  Make sure you get the modals.  You want to penetrate.
• Another 2H worth considering is Willbreaker as the morningstar modal debuffs fort which is a common check for many spells and abilities.  Many mobs, especially high level ones have massive fortitude so it helps people a lot to reduce it through something like morningstar hit + Toxic strike.
• Can also look to AoE blunderbusses to spread afflictions from range if that sounds like fun.
• Triumph of the Crusaders is the only heal you need if you play right in mob scenarios.

As far as viability is concerned:

• Assassin/Priest of Skaen requires a lot of micro every fight.  This can get tiresome for people.  Personally I like microing a single character a lot, so it works for me.  A lot of what I do on PotD is abusing the enemy AI.
• One shotting mobs without a strong multiplicative lash is pretty hard.  Against durable targets like enemy fighters or paladins that are even level, expect to require multiple backstabs to drop them.  This is especially true in harder content.  One playstyle I like once you get Toxic Strike is loading a target with dots with one full strike and then leaving them to die.
• This character is nothing to write home about outside of stealth attacks, but BDD does open some fun cheese options using Deltro's and scrolls.
• Overall I'd say it's not the strongest power gaming pick.  It is viable at all points in the game however and a lot of fun to pilot (though it does take a bit to get rolling), especially if you just enjoy stealth characters like I do.

Edited November 23, 2018 by guildwriter

[Exanos]

 

I'm currently piloting an Assassin/Priest of Skaen in PotD solo upscaled.  Have cleared Nemnok/Kraken/Pirate Ships (early and endgame) so far and playing BoW for a break from normal content.  Here are some thoughts.

• If you want big damage numbers, go bleak walker.  With the upgraded FoD lash, you can delete people effectively when all of your damage buffs line up.  Less options but more friendly to micro when you have a full party to deal with (less to think about).
• I tried and rejected Assassin/Soulblade as if your character opens up from stealth outside of combat, you will not get credited cipher resources for that first hit.  This I found enraging, but I like solo so this is especially bad.  This can be a really rewarding route to go down as charm is OP.  Damage in general is likely to be higher.
• Another option is playing Assassin/Wizard and using one of the Arkymyr tomes for his escape spell.  It's quite potent but super finicky.  Dots DO break its invisibility, BUT you can cast certain kinds of spells at will and not have it break the invis.
• In the end I chose Skaen as it effectively gives you 12 guile and frees you from having to make those skill picks.  I like playing around stealth and this setup gave the most opportunity for that.
• You cannot buff in stealth.
• Spiritual Weapon is okay but honestly better served by using real weapons.  Also getting full Sneaky and Cruel reps is actually difficult and there are "benevolent" reputation trap choices that the game doesn't tell you about until AFTER you've selected the dialogue option.  So Skaen RP can be a pain.  Not that priest rep does all that much to begin with: holy radiance and spiritual weapon lash.
• Wael is a safer choice if you want him to solo take on the backline as the defensive options through deflection stacking are much more potent.  This is more of a playstyle thing.  Re-stealthing can be a potent way to avoid damage as well, but it requires a lot of micro.
• Backstab does not proc AoE IIRC, just the first target.
• Dragon's Dowry is probably the best 2H choice before you can get Chronoprismatic Staff.  Can get within 2m to backstab.  Downsides are unfit for melee debuff and can't engage using ranged weapons.  Other noteworthy early pickups are Amra and Eager Blade.
• WotEP is good for applying rogue abilities in AoE format.  Mass arterial/gouging/toxic is enormous value.  Can upgrade to have the ability Run Through which does extreme damage 1/encounter when combined with Assassinate and Backstab.  Will just about one shot most things that are even level and higher.  If the damage from the attack doesn't kill them, the dot likely will.
• If you want a alternative Dual Wield option: Stalker's Patience and Rust's Poignard.  Get the Mask of Grotto's Deep and Hylea's Gauntlets and just stack raw damage on people.  Also gives an additional stealth if you want it through Rust's.  If you want to ensure penetration, get a sabre instead of Stalker's.  Tarn's or Grave Calling work well.  Make sure you get the modals.  You want to penetrate.
• Another 2H worth considering is Willbreaker as the morningstar modal debuffs fort which is a common check for many spells and abilities.  Many mobs, especially high level ones have massive fortitude so it helps people a lot to reduce it through something like morningstar hit + Toxic strike.
• Can also look to AoE blunderbusses to spread afflictions from range if that sounds like fun.
• Triumph of the Crusaders is the only heal you need if you play right in mob scenarios.

As far as viability is concerned:

• Assassin/Priest of Skaen requires a lot of micro every fight.  This can get tiresome for people.  Personally I like microing a single character a lot, so it works for me.  A lot of what I do on PotD is abusing the enemy AI.
• One shotting mobs without a strong multiplicative lash is pretty hard.  Against durable targets like enemy fighters or paladins that are even level, expect to require multiple backstabs to drop them.  This is especially true in harder content.  One playstyle I like once you get Toxic Strike is loading a target with dots with one full strike and then leaving them to die.
• This character is nothing to write home about outside of stealth attacks, but BDD does open some fun cheese options using Deltro's and scrolls.
• Overall I'd say it's not the strongest power gaming pick.  It is viable at all points in the game however and a lot of fun to pilot (though it does take a bit to get rolling), especially if you just enjoy stealth characters like I do.

 

 

Thanks for the replys ! 

 

You summarized it quite nicely <3 !

 

- No doubt Bleak Walker or Soulblade multi beat it in burst damage, but honestly, these playstyle were fun the first hour and get tedious after it, pretty simple to config ia, like you said : nearly 0 micro... Moreover i see the build more as a squishy remover (mage/priest/ranger...) than a tank melter (there is ton of good build for that), no need to overkill.

 

- Too bad no weapon allow you to backstab in aoe . Could have raised the fun factor by a lot ^^

 

- Was pretty sure you could cast certain buffs without breaking stealth (was remembering Xoti doing it) 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Exanos

[guildwriter]

I could be wrong about the casting from stealth but I'm pretty sure I'm not.  I can run some tests to confirm later.  There are certain spells like Delayed Blast Fireball which don't break stealth when they are "cast" (when the fireball projectile emerges), but do break stealth when they explode.  So there may be buff spells which operate in a similar matter.

 

What I will say is that there are forms of "stealth" that do allow you to cast.  Whether or not that's actually intended I can't say.  Still testing them to try to figure out what is going on.

Edited November 23, 2018 by guildwriter

[Boeroer]

You can buff from stealth. But only when a party member starts the encounter for you while you stay stealthed. In a solo game you usually have to break your stealth to start the encounter. And all buffs are combat-only.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Boeroer

[guildwriter]

Sounds about right.  Don't think I ever tried buffing from stealth while in combat during my group run so that's probably correct.  

[thelee]

You can stay stealthed until an enemy detects you or you do something that affects an enemy.

 

Because you get a huge -85% recovery time bonus while stealthed, it can be worth keeping buffers stealthed to cast lots of buffs at the start, before they get detected.

 

I tried an assassin/skean focused on backstabbing, and consider me underwhelmed. Stealthing and invisibility is hard to come by "just" to end up whacking someone for large damage a few times, at least on PotD seemed underoptimized to me. Before I abandoned it, I pretty much thought you should instead rely on getting that assassinate bonus on spells (so e.g. priest debuffs or things like Pillar of Holy Fire) to get the most out of it.

 

That being said - no one considers an axe? The bleeding damage dot from the weapon modal triggers off your total weapon damage, which means an initial huge hit pays dividends (and there are even two-handed axes now).  Plus, the -85% recovery time bonus means you recover almost instantly from the +50% recovery time penalty from the axe modal (either to immediatley whack again for more bleeding damage, or to do something else).

[TheWeaver]

Slightly off-topic, but just to give Assassin and axes some love... One of my recently completed play throughs (PotD, upscaled, party) was with an Assassin/Black Jacket, using Amara as her primary weapon.   I felt like combined with the assassin slippers and careful use of smoke veil/shadowing beyond I got pretty good use out of assassinate and the axe bleed modal (mob stance also helped here, kill, invis, assassinate, often second kill, not bad).  Add in the stalking cloak and the use of dual blunderbuss to deliver Toxic Strike and it was a very effective character (though I'm sure a BB empowered street fighter would be numerically superior, I just don't like that play style).  Anyway, certainly didn't feel gimped by any stretch.

[Boeroer]

Actually an arqubus is much more fun than an axe - for me. Partly because of the no-recovery advantage of guns which makes you a lot more flexible (esacpe or get invisible instantly after attacks etc.), partly because  the instant damage is very high and leads to quick death of a single enemy (Assassination+Backstab from stealth, very short reload because of stealth's recovery/reload bonus, followed by a Finishing Blow which kills the enemy, making you invisible because of your slippers, give you time for reload, repeat).

 

For me it was not underwhelming. First of all you are still a priest with great party buffs and all. And then DPS is not everything - if you can't get targeted because you turn invisible after killing one single opponent that's very valuable. I killed the whole Concelhaut group enemy by enemy just with the Assassin/PoSkaen -  while the rest of the party stood around the corner. I just didn't need them while "playing it safe".

 

Axe + Bleeding Cuts is my go-to setup with Barbaric Retaliation though. Even non-unique superb axes do a better job than most other unique weapons with that combo.  

[guildwriter]

You can stay stealthed until an enemy detects you or you do something that affects an enemy.

 

Because you get a huge -85% recovery time bonus while stealthed, it can be worth keeping buffers stealthed to cast lots of buffs at the start, before they get detected.

 

I tried an assassin/skean focused on backstabbing, and consider me underwhelmed. Stealthing and invisibility is hard to come by "just" to end up whacking someone for large damage a few times, at least on PotD seemed underoptimized to me. Before I abandoned it, I pretty much thought you should instead rely on getting that assassinate bonus on spells (so e.g. priest debuffs or things like Pillar of Holy Fire) to get the most out of it.

 

That being said - no one considers an axe? The bleeding damage dot from the weapon modal triggers off your total weapon damage, which means an initial huge hit pays dividends (and there are even two-handed axes now).  Plus, the -85% recovery time bonus means you recover almost instantly from the +50% recovery time penalty from the axe modal (either to immediatley whack again for more bleeding damage, or to do something else).

 

For me the fun of Assassin/Skaen comes from the playstyle, not the OPness of the build.  I enjoy the challenge of making something that is less powerful like this work without resorting to scrolls and the like except when there is no other option to do so.  It's a build that lives or dies by the choices you make and has a lot less to do with the initial build so much as how you choose to approach the game.  It's not about backstabbing over and over.  If I wanted that I'd get a different build.

 

The axe is a good example.  I did play with dot stacking with Magran's Favor and did find it to be strong.  The issue is how full attacks behave out of stealth when you dual wield versus when you use a single weapon (2h or 1h).  The recovery bonus of stealth gets consumed by the offhand swing of the initial full attack out of stealth.  This means when the full attack completes, you eat the full recovery penalty of the offhand swing which in some fights is long enough for you to die.  Instead a 2h or a firearm can perform the full attack and gain the recovery bonus or have no recovery at all, allowing you to almost instantly perform a second action (which also has interesting implications to how the AI starts reacting).  Furthermore when you have to fight outside of stealth (and you will have to fight outside of stealth), the damage you get from the dot is often not enough to compensate for the reactivity you lose as a result of the malus.  Being off by a half second can get you killed.  

 

Plus this build doesn't have to be about backstabbing only.  You have BDD and Salvation of Time meaning you can Deltro + Maestorm and wipe people out.  You can mass spread arterial strike and toxic strike and get the AI to run around non stop and kill itself using mortars.  You have strong self buffs and a summon to tank as you need to.  Yes there are classes that are specifically tuned for these things that do them more efficiently.  I also find those classes are one note and can't do much else besides the one thing they're good at.  There are a lot of diverse ways to play the build.  

 

Another fun thing to note: Assassin's Slippers gives Shadow Form which is neither Stealth or Invisibility.  What I mean by that is you can cast buffs and other specific spells while in Shadow Form and NOT lose the buff.  This means your decision tree can change depending on when you time the kill to happen on your approach.  It also seems to not break if you one shot your target in question.    

 

Using Shadowing Beyond immediately after an initial strike causes the AI to wonk out and behave like the player isn't there even if you are out of stealth and are even in combat.  It's not a durable loss of "awareness", but it can be useful to buy time to perform other actions or setup in a different position.

 

There are more little weird corners in the AI behavior that can be exploited to give the game more texture and expand your options. 

[Exanos]

You can stay stealthed until an enemy detects you or you do something that affects an enemy.

 

Because you get a huge -85% recovery time bonus while stealthed, it can be worth keeping buffers stealthed to cast lots of buffs at the start, before they get detected.

 

I tried an assassin/skean focused on backstabbing, and consider me underwhelmed. Stealthing and invisibility is hard to come by "just" to end up whacking someone for large damage a few times, at least on PotD seemed underoptimized to me. Before I abandoned it, I pretty much thought you should instead rely on getting that assassinate bonus on spells (so e.g. priest debuffs or things like Pillar of Holy Fire) to get the most out of it.

 

That being said - no one considers an axe? The bleeding damage dot from the weapon modal triggers off your total weapon damage, which means an initial huge hit pays dividends (and there are even two-handed axes now).  Plus, the -85% recovery time bonus means you recover almost instantly from the +50% recovery time penalty from the axe modal (either to immediatley whack again for more bleeding damage, or to do something else).

 

 

Actually an arqubus is much more fun than an axe - for me. Partly because of the no-recovery advantage of guns which makes you a lot more flexible (esacpe or get invisible instantly after attacks etc.), partly because  the instant damage is very high and leads to quick death of a single enemy (Assassination+Backstab from stealth, very short reload because of stealth's recovery/reload bonus, followed by a Finishing Blow which kills the enemy, making you invisible because of your slippers, give you time for reload, repeat).

 

For me it was not underwhelming. First of all you are still a priest with great party buffs and all. And then DPS is not everything - if you can't get targeted because you turn invisible after killing one single opponent that's very valuable. I killed the whole Concelhaut group enemy by enemy just with the Assassin/PoSkaen -  while the rest of the party stood around the corner. I just didn't need them while "playing it safe".

 

Axe + Bleeding Cuts is my go-to setup with Barbaric Retaliation though. Even non-unique superb axes do a better job than most other unique weapons with that combo.  

 

This gameplay may not be the most "optimized" for damage , it's still really fun after some levels and some gear :

- Redhand (arquebuse) can be looted right after landing to neketaka and give you a +40% damage bonus

- Willbreaker (2h mace) can be looted very early too with no fight if you lvl up stealh a little (got 8 when i picked it) and with good use of firecrakers (lure guardians in the opposite side of the room) and have huge base damage.

- Slippery of the Assassin can be bought rigth after Port-Maje, if you are lucky and found the ship.

 

The way Boeroer describe engagement allow you to dispatch the ennemy backline in no time, while your group keep the melee locked away from you.

I'm wondering if it can be worth it to pick a 3rd weapon slot, 2 handmortar and switch to mass aoe the melee after backline is taken care off.

 

The CON of the build for me are :

- Difficult early without stuff and some lvl

- Vulnerable if hit 

- Micro heavy. Like really heavy.

- No real AoE early;

- Buffing party can be hard considering your positionning (behind ennemy backline)

- Not the best at each things (kind a jack of all trades)

 

The PRO of the build :

- Fun;

- Flexibility (Huge 1v1 Damage, AoE Damage with spell priest, Good buff, Good debuff priest+rogue, DoT... 

- Mobility (you have ton of escape mecanism)

- Really fun

- Survivability (Invisibility + Priest spells : Withdraw (PL2) and Barring Death Door (PL5))

- Did i say "Fun"?

 

 

Is there a way to make the weapon switch more quickly (like real quick) without being a blackjacket ?

 

(Secretly hoping Boeroer or Guildwritter put their build on the board     )

[Prince of Lies]

Assassins seem to always need to be babied with micromanagement, but I don't mind it. I'm partial to Mindstalker. (Assassin/Soul Blade).

 

Prioritize Dexterity, Perception, Might.

 

I usually dual wield with either Pukestabber + Lover's Embrace (with Drunkard's Regret), or Modwyr/Scordeo's Edge/Seeker's Fang + Rust's Poignard (stacking +Crit% items and +attack speed items). Using a two-handed weapon could also work.

 

Use Slippers of the Assassin and Invisibility Potions/Smoke Veil > Gouging Strike/Toxic Strike/Ring the Bell > Finishing Blow > Soul Annihilation

 

Usually, they'll be dead by finishing blow, giving you plenty of focus for Soul Annihilation. Slippers of the Assassin will proc, using Soul Annihilation after that with mostly-filled-focus will likely one-hit most enemies. Rinse and repeat the above. When you have longer fights, have another cipher throw Ancestral Memories on you to help regen guile.

[thelee]

 

You can stay stealthed until an enemy detects you or you do something that affects an enemy.

 

Because you get a huge -85% recovery time bonus while stealthed, it can be worth keeping buffers stealthed to cast lots of buffs at the start, before they get detected.

 

I tried an assassin/skean focused on backstabbing, and consider me underwhelmed. Stealthing and invisibility is hard to come by "just" to end up whacking someone for large damage a few times, at least on PotD seemed underoptimized to me. Before I abandoned it, I pretty much thought you should instead rely on getting that assassinate bonus on spells (so e.g. priest debuffs or things like Pillar of Holy Fire) to get the most out of it.

 

That being said - no one considers an axe? The bleeding damage dot from the weapon modal triggers off your total weapon damage, which means an initial huge hit pays dividends (and there are even two-handed axes now).  Plus, the -85% recovery time bonus means you recover almost instantly from the +50% recovery time penalty from the axe modal (either to immediatley whack again for more bleeding damage, or to do something else).

 

For me the fun of Assassin/Skaen comes from the playstyle, not the OPness of the build.  I enjoy the challenge of making something that is less powerful like this work without resorting to scrolls and the like except when there is no other option to do so.  It's a build that lives or dies by the choices you make and has a lot less to do with the initial build so much as how you choose to approach the game.  It's not about backstabbing over and over.  If I wanted that I'd get a different build.

 

The axe is a good example.  I did play with dot stacking with Magran's Favor and did find it to be strong.  The issue is how full attacks behave out of stealth when you dual wield versus when you use a single weapon (2h or 1h).  The recovery bonus of stealth gets consumed by the offhand swing of the initial full attack out of stealth.  This means when the full attack completes, you eat the full recovery penalty of the offhand swing which in some fights is long enough for you to die.  Instead a 2h or a firearm can perform the full attack and gain the recovery bonus or have no recovery at all, allowing you to almost instantly perform a second action (which also has interesting implications to how the AI starts reacting).  Furthermore when you have to fight outside of stealth (and you will have to fight outside of stealth), the damage you get from the dot is often not enough to compensate for the reactivity you lose as a result of the malus.  Being off by a half second can get you killed.  

 

Plus this build doesn't have to be about backstabbing only.  You have BDD and Salvation of Time meaning you can Deltro + Maestorm and wipe people out.  You can mass spread arterial strike and toxic strike and get the AI to run around non stop and kill itself using mortars.  You have strong self buffs and a summon to tank as you need to.  Yes there are classes that are specifically tuned for these things that do them more efficiently.  I also find those classes are one note and can't do much else besides the one thing they're good at.  There are a lot of diverse ways to play the build.  

 

Another fun thing to note: Assassin's Slippers gives Shadow Form which is neither Stealth or Invisibility.  What I mean by that is you can cast buffs and other specific spells while in Shadow Form and NOT lose the buff.  This means your decision tree can change depending on when you time the kill to happen on your approach.  It also seems to not break if you one shot your target in question.    

 

Using Shadowing Beyond immediately after an initial strike causes the AI to wonk out and behave like the player isn't there even if you are out of stealth and are even in combat.  It's not a durable loss of "awareness", but it can be useful to buy time to perform other actions or setup in a different position.

 

There are more little weird corners in the AI behavior that can be exploited to give the game more texture and expand your options. 

 

 

Out of stealth you should use a 1h or 2h for precisely the problem you talk about - blowing your stealth recovery on an underpowered main-hand attack (whether a normal attack or as part of a martial ability with a full attack). With my aborted assassin/skaen, I had different weapon styles for my weapon sets; I would open with a 1h axe hit (this preceded BoW and its 2h axes) and optionally either switch to another weapon set or casting spiritual weapon, depending on the situation, for precisely what you are talking about (rogue full attacks). I don't know if was particularly great way to go about it (essentially I "wasted" my fast recovery so that I could immediately Smoke Veil or Escape and safely change/summon weapons if needed), but that's one way to go about it. If I didn't care about recovery, it did mean that I could sort of "condemn" weaker front-line enemies to death by whacking them with a huge axe hit, whacking them with a smaller axe hit, and then finding a way to go about my business elsewhere with alternate weapons while the two bleeding ticks work their way in to finish them off.

 

I also tried arquebus for reasons mentioned above (either effectively instant reload, or perfectly reactive recovery), but didn't love it (also the blunted critical is a damper on the assassinate accuracy perk). I don't know, maybe this just isn't my play style.

 

Re: the Shadowing Beyond behavior - when enemy rogues use it, I definitely cannot target them even if they've broken their invisibility early. But does it really work when we use it? I seem to remember being disappointed that I didn't get the same privileged untargetability by an early invisibility break with Shadowing Beyond.

Edited November 27, 2018 by thelee

[guildwriter]

Out of stealth you should use a 1h or 2h for precisely the problem you talk about - blowing your stealth recovery on an underpowered main-hand attack (whether a normal attack or as part of a martial ability with a full attack). With my aborted assassin/skaen, I had different weapon styles for my weapon sets; I would open with a 1h axe hit (this preceded BoW and its 2h axes) and optionally either switch to another weapon set or casting spiritual weapon, depending on the situation, for precisely what you are talking about (rogue full attacks). I don't know if was particularly great way to go about it (essentially I "wasted" my fast recovery so that I could immediately Smoke Veil or Escape and safely change/summon weapons if needed), but that's one way to go about it. If I didn't care about recovery, it did mean that I could sort of "condemn" weaker front-line enemies to death by whacking them with a huge axe hit, whacking them with a smaller axe hit, and then finding a way to go about my business elsewhere with alternate weapons while the two bleeding ticks work their way in to finish them off.

 

I also tried arquebus for reasons mentioned above (either effectively instant reload, or perfectly reactive recovery), but didn't love it (also the blunted critical is a damper on the assassinate accuracy perk). I don't know, maybe this just isn't my play style.

 

Re: the Shadowing Beyond behavior - when enemy rogues use it, I definitely cannot target them even if they've broken their invisibility early. But does it really work when we use it? I seem to remember being disappointed that I didn't get the same privileged untargetability by an early invisibility break with Shadowing Beyond.

 

 

I tried the weapon swapping for a time, but ultimately stuck to the following three sets:

• Chronoprismatic Quaterstaff (backstab and auto)
• Fire in the Hole/Kitchen Stove (aoe affliction and Thunderous Report from stealth)
• Dragon's Dowry (ranged stealth and kiting) 

The reasoning being that I didn't feel that a dual wielding set gave any upgraded utility over any of the three that I currently had.  You get some really hilarious crits if you supercharge with Deltros and Thunderous report from stealth.  Everything just evaporates into a bloody red mist.

 

It's not a playstyle for everyone.  I've reloaded some fights 5+ times because I got caught off guard by something I didn't expect.  The build is extremely prone to failure and you have to work 3 times harder sometimes to get a similar result from another build.  I just really like how every fight feels different not only depending on the enemy composition, but at each stage of the fight.  Fights where you can't drop combat are especially challenging and force you to get creative with your approach (Pirate ships esp the vengeance ship fights are all sorts of fun).  Boss fights are pretty boring though as there's not much room to play as they're mostly just endurance fights.  

 

So these are the steps regarding my Shadowing Beyond usage:

• Drop out of stealth with full attack opener (usually Toxic or Gouging)
• Shadowing Beyond  next to following target as soon as the previous attack lands
• Enemy NPCs freak out and start doing their "run to damaged target and then run back routine"
• Pop out of stealth next to different target and drop another Toxic Strike on target ASAP
• Casually walk away like nothing happened in plain sight as NPCs continue to mill around
• Walk away well out of sight (NPCs still aren't following)
• By this time either two squishy targets are dead or are wasting cast cycles on targets that have reduced healing and are going to die to a DoT that ratchets up to 40+ damage a tick (Fun fact: Toxic striking the same target adds to the current duration).
• Buff up, summon, etc. This usually causes the NPCs to path to me.
• Re-engage.

Found this out in BoW and just about every group I ran into that I tried this on displayed this behavior.  I don't know the exact limitations of it yet and would have to do some pretty indepth testing to find the limits.  I also have no idea if this behavior is even intended.  I'm pretty sure some of the things I've found out about hugging corners causing melee NPCs to become magically blind are NOT intended though.

 

Fun fact, did you know that a potion of invisibility can double as a sparkcracker?  If you manage to stay in combat and have the NPCs enter "passive" mode, popping a potion of invisibility in the middle of them while under the effect of something like Smoke Veil will cause the NPCs to enter "investigate" mode and then path to where you are standing.  Nice way to setup a massive AoE hit especially in pirate fights.  

 

Don't ask me how many reloads it took to figure THAT out.  

 

[it's important to remember that invisibility, stealth, smoke veil, shadow form, and shadowing beyond are different effects.  Do not try to extend the duration by recasting a similar effect (ie: potion of invisibility twice) as it will simply cancel out and dump you in the middle of some very angry people]

 

Is there a way to make the weapon switch more quickly (like real quick) without being a blackjacket ?

 

(Secretly hoping Boeroer or Guildwritter put their build on the board     )

 

 

Unfortunately not.  I wish there was as this build is as gear hungry as it is resource hungry.  There are a lot of fun equipment setups and consumables that really enhance the experience.

 

I'm working on a guide but I expect it to take awhile as I'm trying to be thorough and also balancing a Helwalker/Trickster playthrough as well.  I suspect a post about all the nuances of a stealth focused game (both relying on it for offense and defense) might be more illuminating to people though.

Edited November 27, 2018 by guildwriter

[Boeroer]

I also found that Shadowing Beyond is a lot better than Smoke Veil. Even though it costs more Guile it's better for such builds. And PoSkean gives you two additional uses of it. The impact of the rel. long invisibility and 0 recovery is huge on enemies' AI and your flexibility. Slippers dito. You can easily reload or cast a spell while invisible. The enemy can't disturb you.

Often I could walk away after killimg + turning invisible and the encounter resets, giving you back all resources. Rinse and repeat and the enemy group is gone. Takes a bit longer but is very safe and thrilling at the same time. Like playing "Thief (the game)".

Edited November 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

 

 

If you manage to stay in combat and have the NPCs enter "passive" mode, popping a potion of invisibility in the middle of them while under the effect of something like Smoke Veil will cause the NPCs to enter "investigate" mode and then path to where you are standing.  Nice way to setup a massive AoE hit especially in pirate fights.  

 

Don't ask me how many reloads it took to figure THAT out.  

 

[it's important to remember that invisibility, stealth, smoke veil, shadow form, and shadowing beyond are different effects.  Do not try to extend the duration by recasting a similar effect (ie: potion of invisibility twice) as it will simply cancel out and dump you in the middle of some very angry people]

 

I don't think all those are different, I think rather that "invisibility" and "stealth" are different things, and there are different rules governing invisibility and governing stealth.

 

From my experience, any action breaks invisibility, whereas only actively hostile ones break stealth. (I was really bummed out when the act of applying a poison on my weapon would break invisibility).

 

There might be something weird going on with drinking potions of invisibility (I've literally never used one), but everything else (Smoke Veil + Shadowing Beyond + Shadow Step + Slippers vs Stealth) seems consistent with the above. Are you really saying Shadowing Beyond twice in a row will result in one of them being a no-op that just dispels invisibility?

 

So ordinarily I would just interpret your example as "smoke veil grants invisibility -> act of drinking potion breaks invisibility and makes you visible to everyone, alerting them -> potion makes you invisible" but I'll admit I haven't used the invisibility abilities enough to really thoroughly have a detailed knowledge of their mechanics.

 

 

I also found that Shadowing Beyond is a lot better than Smoke Veil. Even though it costs more Guile it's better for such builds. And PoSkean gives you two additional uses of it. The impact of the rel. long invisibility and 0 recovery is huge on enemies' AI and your flexibility.

 

Agreed. I completely underestimated how important the 0 recovery on Shadowing Beyond was compared to Smoke Veil (on top of the extra duration). With my first attempt at an assassin, Smoke Veil turned out to be a real bummer because my recovery and intellect were bad enough that I couldn't do another action before Smoke Veil's invisibility wore off.

[guildwriter]

 

If you manage to stay in combat and have the NPCs enter "passive" mode, popping a potion of invisibility in the middle of them while under the effect of something like Smoke Veil will cause the NPCs to enter "investigate" mode and then path to where you are standing.  Nice way to setup a massive AoE hit especially in pirate fights.  

 

Don't ask me how many reloads it took to figure THAT out.  

 

[it's important to remember that invisibility, stealth, smoke veil, shadow form, and shadowing beyond are different effects.  Do not try to extend the duration by recasting a similar effect (ie: potion of invisibility twice) as it will simply cancel out and dump you in the middle of some very angry people]

 

I don't think all those are different, I think rather that "invisibility" and "stealth" are different things, and there are different rules governing invisibility and governing stealth.

 

From my experience, any action breaks invisibility, whereas only actively hostile ones break stealth. (I was really bummed out when the act of applying a poison on my weapon would break invisibility).

 

There might be something weird going on with drinking potions of invisibility (I've literally never used one), but everything else (Smoke Veil + Shadowing Beyond + Shadow Step + Slippers vs Stealth) seems consistent with the above. Are you really saying Shadowing Beyond twice in a row will result in one of them being a no-op that just dispels invisibility?

 

So ordinarily I would just interpret your example as "smoke veil grants invisibility -> act of drinking potion breaks invisibility and makes you visible to everyone, alerting them -> potion makes you invisible" but I'll admit I haven't used the invisibility abilities enough to really thoroughly have a detailed knowledge of their mechanics.

 

 

I also found that Shadowing Beyond is a lot better than Smoke Veil. Even though it costs more Guile it's better for such builds. And PoSkean gives you two additional uses of it. The impact of the rel. long invisibility and 0 recovery is huge on enemies' AI and your flexibility.

 

Agreed. I completely underestimated how important the 0 recovery on Shadowing Beyond was compared to Smoke Veil (on top of the extra duration). With my first attempt at an assassin, Smoke Veil turned out to be a real bummer because my recovery and intellect were bad enough that I couldn't do another action before Smoke Veil's invisibility wore off.

 

 

Nope they are different.  Here are some examples:

• The most egregious example is Arkymyr's Dazzing Escape.  While under the effects of the spell you can drop as many non damaging debuff spells or buffing spells as you like and you will not drop combat.  This means Confusion, Arkymyr's Wonderous Torment, Displaced Image, etc. All of those spells if they land on a target while under the effects of Dazzling Escape will not break the effects of Escape concealing you.  What will break the effect is any application of damage including any DoTs that are currently active.  This runs counter to a common rule to stealth and invisibility that "hit" applications like a "hit" of Pull of Eora or Chill Fog that you cast on a hostile target will cause the invisibility/stealth to break but active DoTs will not break invisibility or anything like it.
• I just tested having Aloth cast spells while in combat and in stealth.  Mirrored Image did not break stealth but Confusion did.
• Shadow Form does not break stealth on casting of buffs or even when you one shot a target.  I've even timed it so that a hit will occur just after Shadow Form procs and the stealth effect does not break.  Also there's a fun bug where if you kill more than one target at the same time, Shadow Form activates and then just goes away.  My Assassin/Evoker is a little salty about that one.
• Casting Shadowing Beyond while it is already active does not break Shadowing Beyond.  Casting Smoke Veil while it is already active not only breaks Smoke Veil, it breaks Shadowing Beyond or other effects.  I don't think it's intended to work this way as when I reported it as a bug, they seemed to treat it as one.
• Using Smoke Veil and then using Potion of Invisibility clears Smoke Veil and replaces it with Potion of Invisibility.  I've seen Shadow Form and Shadowing Beyond active at the same time.  Using Smoke Veil and then Shadowing Beyond causes them to stack.
• See the notes on the weirdness of Shadowing Beyond.  I've never seen the AI do that for either Potion of Invisibility or Smoke Veil.

I'm sure the logical thing is that these are all either Stealth or Invisibility but I've found time and time again there are weird corner cases for each ability.  Either this is classic Obsidian or intended or some weird mix of both.

 

An Int of around 20 or so makes Smoke Veil around 10 seconds.  Combined with a reload time of about 6 or lower on Dragon's means you can Smoke Veil, reload, and shoot all in one go.  Really helps open up possibilities.  I consider maxed Int and maxed Dex to be mandatory to make Assassin builds work properly.

Edited November 27, 2018 by guildwriter

[Boeroer]

Speaking of invisibility:

 

There are stil cases where DoTs break invisibility. I remember using Nannasin's Cobra Strike and its poison breaks my invisibility. Bummer...

 

If you max INT and take Smoke Veil then the late Pernicious Cloud might also be a good thing. At the moment it's crap because it hasd 0 PEN - but I reported that bug and QA said they are going to fix it. The numbers are quite good - and since you spend a point for Smoke Veil already...  

Edited November 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[guildwriter]

If you max INT and take Smoke Veil then the late Pernicious Cloud might also be a good thing. At the moment it's crap because it hasd 0 PEN - biut I reporterd that bug and QA said they are going to fix it. The numbers are quite good - and since you spend a point for Smoke Veil already...  

 

I'd respec to test that for sure.  Assassin/Skaen really needs all the AoE it can get.  Though with the bloated health bars that I'm seeing in late game PotD upscaled (DLC esp) I don't know how much good it will do.

[Boeroer]

Toxic Strike with high INT and MIG and a AoE weapon (rod + Blast or mortars) helps immensely against high level enemies with tons of health. Apply it and go invisible and enemies will die quickly because the ticks increase in damage steeply - and high INT grants you additional ticks. High INT with Toxic Strike means you are looking at an an exponential dmg curve (in an AoE with the right tools). 

[Exanos]

[...]

 

So these are the steps regarding my Shadowing Beyond usage:

• Drop out of stealth with full attack opener (usually Toxic or Gouging)
• Shadowing Beyond  next to following target as soon as the previous attack lands
• Enemy NPCs freak out and start doing their "run to damaged target and then run back routine"
• Pop out of stealth next to different target and drop another Toxic Strike on target ASAP
• Casually walk away like nothing happened in plain sight as NPCs continue to mill around
• Walk away well out of sight (NPCs still aren't following)
• By this time either two squishy targets are dead or are wasting cast cycles on targets that have reduced healing and are going to die to a DoT that ratchets up to 40+ damage a tick (Fun fact: Toxic striking the same target adds to the current duration).
• Buff up, summon, etc. This usually causes the NPCs to path to me.
• Re-engage.

[...]

 

Concerning rogue's ability, i always wonder what is the most efficient DoT to apply (arterial/gouging/toxic).

 

Actually i'm going :

- Stealth

- Tank engage and aggro everything

- Buff

- Artérial opening with an arquebus on the healer (+PEN, low guile cost) followed by a 2nd shoot if not enough to drop him

- Stealth - Shadow form (slipper of assassin)

- swap to AoE (Mortar or Tekehu's Water Rod with blast)

- Rest of team launch debuff/buff on the melee pack for deathblow (<3 ciphers)

- Gouging strike + Toxic strike in the middle of pack

- Shadow beyond

- Swap to 2h and start taking priority target one by one (or cast damage spell).

 

I'm wondering if instead of gouging strike, using arterial strike and withdraw the tank (so melee opponent start running to you) will not be more efficient. With escape you can make them run quite a bit and drop aggro at will.

[thelee]

 

I don't think all those are different, I think rather that "invisibility" and "stealth" are different things, and there are different rules governing invisibility and governing stealth.

 

From my experience, any action breaks invisibility, whereas only actively hostile ones break stealth. (I was really bummed out when the act of applying a poison on my weapon would break invisibility).

 

There might be something weird going on with drinking potions of invisibility (I've literally never used one), but everything else (Smoke Veil + Shadowing Beyond + Shadow Step + Slippers vs Stealth) seems consistent with the above. Are you really saying Shadowing Beyond twice in a row will result in one of them being a no-op that just dispels invisibility?

 

So ordinarily I would just interpret your example as "smoke veil grants invisibility -> act of drinking potion breaks invisibility and makes you visible to everyone, alerting them -> potion makes you invisible" but I'll admit I haven't used the invisibility abilities enough to really thoroughly have a detailed knowledge of their mechanics.

 

Nope they are different.  Here are some examples:

• The most egregious example is Arkymyr's Dazzing Escape.  While under the effects of the spell you can drop as many non damaging debuff spells or buffing spells as you like and you will not drop combat.  This means Confusion, Arkymyr's Wonderous Torment, Displaced Image, etc. All of those spells if they land on a target while under the effects of Dazzling Escape will not break the effects of Escape concealing you.  What will break the effect is any application of damage including any DoTs that are currently active.  This runs counter to a common rule to stealth and invisibility that "hit" applications like a "hit" of Pull of Eora or Chill Fog that you cast on a hostile target will cause the invisibility/stealth to break but active DoTs will not break invisibility or anything like it.
• I just tested having Aloth cast spells while in combat and in stealth.  Mirrored Image did not break stealth but Confusion did.
• Shadow Form does not break stealth on casting of buffs or even when you one shot a target.  I've even timed it so that a hit will occur just after Shadow Form procs and the stealth effect does not break.  Also there's a fun bug where if you kill more than one target at the same time, Shadow Form activates and then just goes away.  My Assassin/Evoker is a little salty about that one.
• Casting Shadowing Beyond while it is already active does not break Shadowing Beyond.  Casting Smoke Veil while it is already active not only breaks Smoke Veil, it breaks Shadowing Beyond or other effects.  I don't think it's intended to work this way as when I reported it as a bug, they seemed to treat it as one.
• Using Smoke Veil and then using Potion of Invisibility clears Smoke Veil and replaces it with Potion of Invisibility.  I've seen Shadow Form and Shadowing Beyond active at the same time.  Using Smoke Veil and then Shadowing Beyond causes them to stack.
• See the notes on the weirdness of Shadowing Beyond.  I've never seen the AI do that for either Potion of Invisibility or Smoke Veil.

I'm sure the logical thing is that these are all either Stealth or Invisibility but I've found time and time again there are weird corner cases for each ability.  Either this is classic Obsidian or intended or some weird mix of both.

 

An Int of around 20 or so makes Smoke Veil around 10 seconds.  Combined with a reload time of about 6 or lower on Dragon's means you can Smoke Veil, reload, and shoot all in one go.  Really helps open up possibilities.  I consider maxed Int and maxed Dex to be mandatory to make Assassin builds work properly.

 

 

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being argumentative, but I'm really just trying to probe this in more detail because it's interesting to me to try to figure this out (and I can't test this myself right now).

 

One thing I noticed is that because invisibility breaks the moment you do virtually anything, it exposes the internal workings of certain spells. My Assassin/Skaen learned, for example, that Pillar of Faith is two distinct effects, because I would get an assassinate bonus on the pillar dropping, but then the AoE prone check would not.

 

Relatedly, I think Smoke Veil lists its effects as "Invisible, Untargetable" whereas Shadowing Beyond lists its effects as "Untargetable, Invisible". Since these tool-tips are automatically generated, I don't think this is just a designer typo-ing a description, but an actual internal difference with how these effects are implemented.

 

So Smoke Veil followed by Smoke Veil, I wonder, is doing this:

1. Ability used.

1a. Invisibility granted.

1b. Linked Untargetability granted.

2. Ability used again.

2a. Invisibility would be granted, but you are already invisible so no effect. But this is the start of an effect! So now break invisibility. Untargetability checks for invisibility and sees that that it wasn't granted, so this gets skipped.

 

Shadowing Beyond followed by Shadowing Beyond is:

1. Ability used.

1a. Untargetability granted (also teleport).

1b. Linked invisibility granted.

2. Ability used again.

2a. Untargetability granted (also teleport). Invisibility is broken, but untargetability/teleport still happens.

2b. Linked invisibility granted.

 

Similarly, any other effect followed by Smoke Veil:

1. <character already has invisibility>

2. Smoke Veil used.

2a. Invisibility would be granted, but can't because you're already invisible. But this effect triggers invisibility breakage!

 

Under this hypothesis, you could overlap Shadowing Beyond and Smoke Veil because Shadowing Beyond's invisibility comes after an effect that would break invisibility.

 

I can't explain your accounting of slippers' Shadow Form or Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure's behavior however. I wonder if "invisibility" and "stealth" are both just some internal effect with identical display names, and designers attached "stealth" to those abilities instead of the correct "invisibility" (which would mean that you could cast buffs and other simple effects). One way to verify that would be is if you get the -85% recovery time bonus from being stealthed while in either of those abilities

 

Anyway, this is certainly all a whole lot weirder than I thought. Mind if I add your notes to my gamefaqs guide? (with attribution of course)

Edited November 27, 2018 by thelee

[guildwriter]

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being argumentative, but I'm really just trying to probe this in more detail because it's interesting to me to try to figure this out (and I can't test this myself right now).

 

One thing I noticed is that because invisibility breaks the moment you do virtually anything, it exposes the internal workings of certain spells. My Assassin/Skaen learned, for example, that Pillar of Faith is two distinct effects, because I would get an assassinate bonus on the pillar dropping, but then the AoE prone check would not.

 

Relatedly, I think Smoke Veil lists its effects as "Invisible, Untargetable" whereas Shadowing Beyond lists its effects as "Untargetable, Invisible". Since these tool-tips are automatically generated, I don't think this is just a designer typo-ing a description, but an actual internal difference with how these effects are implemented.

 

So Smoke Veil followed by Smoke Veil, I wonder, is doing this:

1. Ability used.

1a. Invisibility granted.

1b. Linked Untargetability granted.

2. Ability used again.

2a. Invisibility would be granted, but you are already invisible so no effect. But this is the start of an effect! So now break invisibility. Untargetability checks for invisibility and sees that that it wasn't granted, so this gets skipped.

 

Shadowing Beyond followed by Shadowing Beyond is:

1. Ability used.

1a. Untargetability granted (also teleport).

1b. Linked invisibility granted.

2. Ability used again.

2a. Untargetability granted (also teleport). Invisibility is broken, but untargetability/teleport still happens.

2b. Linked invisibility granted.

 

Similarly, any other effect followed by Smoke Veil:

1. <character already has invisibility>

2. Smoke Veil used.

2a. Invisibility would be granted, but can't because you're already invisible. But this effect triggers invisibility breakage!

 

Under this hypothesis, you could overlap Shadowing Beyond and Smoke Veil because Shadowing Beyond's invisibility comes after an effect that would break invisibility.

 

I can't explain your accounting of slippers' Shadow Form or Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure's behavior however. I wonder if "invisibility" and "stealth" are both just some internal effect with identical display names, and designers attached "stealth" to those abilities instead of the correct "invisibility" (which would mean that you could cast buffs and other simple effects). One way to verify that would be is if you get the -85% recovery time bonus from being stealthed while in either of those abilities

 

Anyway, this is certainly all a whole lot weirder than I thought. Mind if I add your notes to my gamefaqs guide? (with attribution of course)

 

 

Nah it's fine, I understand where you're coming from.  It's a theory for sure.  Personally I hesitate to try to describe the inner workings of a black box when I don't know anything about the internal architecture much less what the intended boundaries of the abilities are.  So I'm fine with saying "Sure it could work that way but I have no real way of confirming yes or no".

 

The reason why I specifically think that ABD (Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure - oops got the name wrong earlier) isn't a stealth effect or invisibility per se is that the spells that you can cast and hit with will cause stealth AND invisibility to break.  ABD doesn't break when Confusion casts and hits a target, but stealth and invisibility will break if you cast and hit with Confusion for example.  I know for sure Shadow Form doesn't grant any kind of recovery bonus.  Pretty sure that ABD does not either but I could be wrong.  Honestly it could all be unintended behavior though and they're both supposed to conform to normal rules regarding Stealth and/or Invisibility.  

 

Sure go ahead.  Glad to add to the knowledge pile.

Edited November 27, 2018 by guildwriter

[guildwriter]

Concerning rogue's ability, i always wonder what is the most efficient DoT to apply (arterial/gouging/toxic).

 

Actually i'm going :

- Stealth

- Tank engage and aggro everything

- Buff

- Artérial opening with an arquebus on the healer (+PEN, low guile cost) followed by a 2nd shoot if not enough to drop him

- Stealth - Shadow form (slipper of assassin)

- swap to AoE (Mortar or Tekehu's Water Rod with blast)

- Rest of team launch debuff/buff on the melee pack for deathblow (<3 ciphers)

- Gouging strike + Toxic strike in the middle of pack

- Shadow beyond

- Swap to 2h and start taking priority target one by one (or cast damage spell).

 

I'm wondering if instead of gouging strike, using arterial strike and withdraw the tank (so melee opponent start running to you) will not be more efficient. With escape you can make them run quite a bit and drop aggro at will.

 

 

Keep in mind that the actions I posted are just one approach that I use when fighting groups and is not necessarily the ideal approach for every enemy setup.  Also keep in mind I play solo with this character and that heavily influences some of my decision making.

 

Arterial on a healer generally is not the best option.  The reason why is that generally the healer AI will not really move once there are things to cast on (itself being a good example).  Toxic strike for the heal debuff and the increasing over time DoT damage is a better choice and will generally kill off the target even through some heal focus (if your alpha hit was strong enough).  Gouging can be a good choice as it seems like the blind reduces the overall vision of the target changing how they position.  Don't know if it works this way for everyone, but for Kraken tentacles it definitely seemed to be that way.

 

Arterial strike kiting works well for high armor targets as the raw damage is potent (probably one of the fastest acting DoTs there is).  Concelhaut becomes a complete joke with it.  An initial AoE arterial strike hit on a massed pack and then dragging them to the team does work really well.  So that might be a better lead off.  But against other groups it might be more risky like with a pack full of ranged characters.  The initial ranged alpha strike could kill you outright, or interrupt lock you long enough, or even set back your recovery long enough to kill you.  Enemy composition and positioning really does influence a lot of how this works.