Diablo 3 has a better story than PoE 2

[Selky]

Diablo 3's story never made me feel like alt-f4'ing like Deadfire's did, I'll give it that.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Bruh...the stories of Diablo 3 and Deadfire are not unending soap operas. They end. From point A to point B. What are you even talking about lol?

Mate ur confused af. D3 legit ends with 'oh no, diablos gonna come back'. Didnt u finish it? Why are u comparing it to other games if u didnt finish it. I thought that wasnt allowed.

[Verde]

 

Bruh...the stories of Diablo 3 and Deadfire are not unending soap operas. They end. From point A to point B. What are you even talking about lol?

Mate ur confused af. D3 legit ends with 'oh no, diablos gonna come back'. Didnt u finish it? Why are u comparing it to other games if u didnt finish it. I thought that wasnt allowed.

Again, if you haven't finished or even played Diablo 3 you have no business comparing stories. Sounds like you're working through some personal issues in public, mate. Edited November 24, 2018 by Verde

[Wormerine]

 

And Obsidian tried w the main story of Deadfire? Clearly their focus was graphics, combat, and factions. The main story is dreadful.

Factions are main story. A lot of elements discovered via faction quests tie to Eothas' plotline. 

[Verde]

 

 

 

And Obsidian tried w the main story of Deadfire? Clearly their focus was graphics, combat, and factions. The main story is dreadful.

Factions are main story. A lot of elements discovered via faction quests tie to Eothas' plotline.

You dont need to do any faction quests to finish the game. They are optional.

[Wormerine]

 

 

 

 

And Obsidian tried w the main story of Deadfire? Clearly their focus was graphics, combat, and factions. The main story is dreadful.

Factions are main story. A lot of elements discovered via faction quests tie to Eothas' plotline.

You dont need to do any faction quests to finish the game. They are optional.

So? But they make up a big chunk of the story which makes Deadfire. Journal in divided into 3 categorries: Main threads: Hunt For Eothas, Huana, Principi, Valian Trading Complany, Royal Deadfire Company. Those constitute for the main meat of the game. Yes you can skip majoority of them as it is an RPG. In old RPGs like Fallouts you can skip vast majority of key content if you so wish. Perhaps Obsidian made the mistake of telling the players were to go next, instead of forcing them to use faction quests to explore. 

 

Then you have quests - major sidequests, and tasks. 

 

I am really tired of people complaining how Deadfire's "main story" is only 5 quests long, while ignoring a pile of high quality content for some weird reason. Don't give players too much freedom or they will get confused, I suppose. 

[InsaneCommander]

Perhaps Obsidian made the mistake of telling the players were to go next, instead of forcing them to use faction quests to explore.

 

Imho they did. It would have been better if we had to search the Deadfire to find Eothas. Maybe Hasongo and other places would only be made available after you completed some faction quests. Obviously this would go against the open world idea...

[gkathellar]

D3's story is fine. It's not terrible, and is certainly more developed than D1 or D2 (not necessarily better, but more developed for sure), although it suffers like all games of its type from having a protagonist who is deeply disconnected from its narrative. But then, that's not really the point. The point is to mash buttons until the monsters are dead, and it performs admirably in that department for a while, even if it's way too short and the post-game is unbelievably vacuous (which, to be fair, is pretty standard in this genre - only Path of Exile manages to dodge it).

 

Deadfire's story has problems, but it is undoubtedly better written, better structured, and better told overall. It has actual characters, too, so that's a plus. The biggest problem is pacing, which D3 does manage with aplomb, but I mean yeah, Diablo-alikes have pretty good pacing in general (TL2 and D2's second acts were a little slow, but that's all I can really complain about).

 

I legit dont know whats going on with that weird 'dark side transforming woman as major plot device' theyre so keen on. Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Leah.

 

... I never noticed that, but jeez, it's everywhere, ain't it? Widowmaker in Overwatch, that Dark Templar matriarch, I swear there's one in SC2, there's the half-orc girl in WC2 ... hell, even in the backstory for WC3, Medivh's mother got infected with Sargeras (don't you judge me, I was 13 when I read that tie-in novel).

 

Somebody should make a list. This is pathological.

[Verde]

 

 

 

 

 

And Obsidian tried w the main story of Deadfire? Clearly their focus was graphics, combat, and factions. The main story is dreadful.

Factions are main story. A lot of elements discovered via faction quests tie to Eothas' plotline.

You dont need to do any faction quests to finish the game. They are optional.

So? But they make up a big chunk of the story which makes Deadfire. Journal in divided into 3 categorries: Main threads: Hunt For Eothas, Huana, Principi, Valian Trading Complany, Royal Deadfire Company. Those constitute for the main meat of the game. Yes you can skip majoority of them as it is an RPG. In old RPGs like Fallouts you can skip vast majority of key content if you so wish. Perhaps Obsidian made the mistake of telling the players were to go next, instead of forcing them to use faction quests to explore.

 

Then you have quests - major sidequests, and tasks.

 

I am really tired of people complaining how Deadfire's "main story" is only 5 quests long, while ignoring a pile of high quality content for some weird reason. Don't give players too much freedom or they will get confused, I suppose.

Or don't give them a required main story that involves 3 quests which imply a sense of urgency, at conflict with the open world nature of the game.

 

Also the quality of the quests varies wildly. Sabatoge the powderhouse for the Huana and betray the new VTC Director? Well down OBS. Say you didn't see anything and everyone disbands and nothing happens? Cringeworthy. Destroy the Poko Horo pillar but unable to give the VTC notes to the chieftain to quell his accusations? Horrendous.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Verde

[Daggerknight]

Playing through D3 again, this is my opinion. Apples to oranges you might say, but I say hogwash. D3's focus is combat, which I would argue is also PoE2's, under different umbrellas. However PoE2's story dissolves but D3 actually gets stronger. It's gripping and focused whereas PoEs main story is loose and unfocused. Sure you don't play D3 for the story, but it may help you stay, which I say is vice versa for PoE2 (come for the story, stay for the combat). Also the voice acting in D3 is top notch - brevity is the soul of wit - which Obsidian is slowly learning.

 

Hate me, come at me, but I may have a pt.

 

While I agree that POE's story got a bit muddy and fizzled out by the end (main plot, not the sub plots, which were well written) ... I have to say, I take major issue to describing Diablo 3's story as "gripping", especially compared to POE 2. 

 

The writing (dialogue and narration) in D3 is infinitely worse than POE 2. It runs the range of B-fantasy movie grade to plain dreadful. The only time it really worked was during the cinematic, which Blizzard has always excelled at. 

(Just thinking the overarching story in D3 is bringing to mind the painful interactions between Leah and Decard. While the apocalypse is literally going off around them, dear Leah still insists on chastising her uncle for all his out-there stories.... yup, that makes sense.). 

 

The voice acting was also nothing to write home about. Everyone was either extremely generic sounding, or just passable enough that it didn't get in the way.  Honestly, between it and the atrocious dialogue, I seriously couldn't care less about any one of the characters. This is despite the attempt to make me do so by having party banter early on.

 

Compared to D3, POE 3 has a less focused main plot perhaps (in that the main plot goes nowhere in particular), but the side stories are FAR more in-depth, the dialogue is much better fleshed out, and while the voice acting isn't the best in the business, it does enough to give the inhabitants some kind of character. 

[Manveru123]

 

 

 

 

 

And Obsidian tried w the main story of Deadfire? Clearly their focus was graphics, combat, and factions. The main story is dreadful.

Factions are main story. A lot of elements discovered via faction quests tie to Eothas' plotline.

You dont need to do any faction quests to finish the game. They are optional.

So? But they make up a big chunk of the story which makes Deadfire. Journal in divided into 3 categorries: Main threads: Hunt For Eothas, Huana, Principi, Valian Trading Complany, Royal Deadfire Company. Those constitute for the main meat of the game. Yes you can skip majoority of them as it is an RPG. In old RPGs like Fallouts you can skip vast majority of key content if you so wish. Perhaps Obsidian made the mistake of telling the players were to go next, instead of forcing them to use faction quests to explore. 

 

Then you have quests - major sidequests, and tasks. 

 

I am really tired of people complaining how Deadfire's "main story" is only 5 quests long, while ignoring a pile of high quality content for some weird reason. Don't give players too much freedom or they will get confused, I suppose. 

 

Nah I feel like he's right about this part. If a quest is not required to finish the game, it's not part of the main storyline. It's a side quest.

 

Those "people" you mention never really say that the whole story is bad, they only focus on the main quests. Doesn't matter how amazing the side quests are, having a good main story is important.

 

Diablo, however, has pretty much only main story, and it's only an excuse to beat up monster hordes.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Manveru123

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

I cant say anything about Diablo 3 but i found the stories of Starcraft 1, Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3, all RTS games, more engaging than both PoE games main stories which are RPG's. Blizzard uses often stereotypes but they use them well in my opinion. I think Obsidian tries sometimes too hard to avoid stereotypes or power fantasies which are often used in RPG's and therefore feels lackluster in some areas. Also, not a single likable recurring NPC comes to mind when i think about the characters in the Pillars games. 

These are world building aspects where i think Obsidian needs to improve.

[InsaneCommander]

Also, not a single likable recurring NPC comes to mind when i think about the characters in the Pillars games.

 

I don't think that will go well with Eder's fans.

[Verde]

 

Also, not a single likable recurring NPC comes to mind when i think about the characters in the Pillars games.

I don't think that will go well with Eder's fans.

Poor Eder :/

[Verde]

 

Playing through D3 again, this is my opinion. Apples to oranges you might say, but I say hogwash. D3's focus is combat, which I would argue is also PoE2's, under different umbrellas. However PoE2's story dissolves but D3 actually gets stronger. It's gripping and focused whereas PoEs main story is loose and unfocused. Sure you don't play D3 for the story, but it may help you stay, which I say is vice versa for PoE2 (come for the story, stay for the combat). Also the voice acting in D3 is top notch - brevity is the soul of wit - which Obsidian is slowly learning.

 

Hate me, come at me, but I may have a pt.

While I agree that POE's story got a bit muddy and fizzled out by the end (main plot, not the sub plots, which were well written) ... I have to say, I take major issue to describing Diablo 3's story as "gripping", especially compared to POE 2.

 

The writing (dialogue and narration) in D3 is infinitely worse than POE 2. It runs the range of B-fantasy movie grade to plain dreadful. The only time it really worked was during the cinematic, which Blizzard has always excelled at.

(Just thinking the overarching story in D3 is bringing to mind the painful interactions between Leah and Decard. While the apocalypse is literally going off around them, dear Leah still insists on chastising her uncle for all his out-there stories.... yup, that makes sense.).

 

The voice acting was also nothing to write home about. Everyone was either extremely generic sounding, or just passable enough that it didn't get in the way. Honestly, between it and the atrocious dialogue, I seriously couldn't care less about any one of the characters. This is despite the attempt to make me do so by having party banter early on.

 

Compared to D3, POE 3 has a less focused main plot perhaps (in that the main plot goes nowhere in particular), but the side stories are FAR more in-depth, the dialogue is much better fleshed out, and while the voice acting isn't the best in the business, it does enough to give the inhabitants some kind of character.

I actually like the voice acting in Deadfire but hate the mixing of Valian terms. I think Diablo has better voice acting and writing though, but there is a lot less so I'm sure it was easier. The writing is concise whereas Deadfire's is inconsistent, esp when choices come up for situations you haven't experienced. To give credit where it's due tho, every convo w Eothos is amazing - it would have been great if they lasted longer. Edited November 26, 2018 by Verde

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I have to say I disagree. Diablo series as a whole, I can agree. I've played both extensively recently. DLC included for both, my investment for D3 is my love for the series as a whole and the LOOT. Lol.

[Verde]

I have to say I disagree. Diablo series as a whole, I can agree. I've played both extensively recently. DLC included for both, my investment for D3 is my love for the series as a whole and the LOOT. Lol.

You like D1 & 2 more than 3?

[gkathellar]

 

I have to say I disagree. Diablo series as a whole, I can agree. I've played both extensively recently. DLC included for both, my investment for D3 is my love for the series as a whole and the LOOT. Lol.

You like D1 & 2 more than 3?

 

 

That's not exactly an unusual opinion. A lot of the criticism of D3 revolved around how different it was from the Blizzard North entries. Tonally, it's a little less pervasively bleak. Artistically, it's somewhat more anime. It's no more or less of a huge cliche pile-up than it ever was, but some of the specific plot beats have worn a little thin in their repetition.

 

Most importantly, the character growth system is entirely different. Given the lack of skill points or other permanent investment, D3 doesn't really have builds-as-character-progression, and by the postgame everything revolves around equipment sets (except for like, all both of the viable LoN builds). It's a pretty good game for, "ooh, maybe it'd be fun to try this out today, I have the stuff for it," and a pretty bad one for, "I'm going to find novel and interesting combinations capable of challenging the most difficult endgame grinds."

 

Late stage D2 was, "oh man now that I'm level 80 everything is really coming together." Late stage D3 is, "ooh, I almost have all of Natalya's Vengeance, I wonder how high a rift level I can beat with that."

 

And bear in mind that post-RoS, the game is vastly better than it was on release, so for people who only saw it in the 1.X development cycle, that's their impression of it. Paragon levels in particular add a bit more of that old leveling joy to the proceedings.

Edited November 26, 2018 by gkathellar

[XEternalXDreamsX]

 

I have to say I disagree. Diablo series as a whole, I can agree. I've played both extensively recently. DLC included for both, my investment for D3 is my love for the series as a whole and the LOOT. Lol.

You like D1 & 2 more than 3?

I've enjoyed each one for different reasons. I'm not saying D3 is bad. I prefer D2 the most.. maybe because I spent a lot of time when I was young playing into the night. Going back, I still enjoy it except the graphics are dated compared to D3 which is to be expected (I still enjoy the atmosphere of D2 more even though D3 is beautiful in it's own right.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

That's not exactly an unusual opinion. A lot of the criticism of D3 revolved around how different it was from the Blizzard North entries. Tonally, it's a little less pervasively bleak. Artistically, it's somewhat more anime.

Theyve brought it into line with their overall brand. For better or worse, every blizzard IP is now subordinate to the overarching 'Blizzard IP'.

 

I guess it gives the blizzard fans an identity to latch on to, but it waters down individual franchises. They all just look and sound and read like blizzard games now. 'Hall of mirrors' i keep calling it.

 

It's no more or less of a huge cliche pile-up than it ever was, but some of the specific plot beats have worn a little thin in their repetition.

This is a side effect - or maybe the purpose - of this approach. It amplifies and repeats blizzards tics ad nauseum. For some folk i guess this is a comfort, but i got fed up of it a long time ago.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

I cant say anything about Diablo 3 but i found the stories of Starcraft 1, Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3, all RTS games, more engaging than both PoE games main stories which are RPG's. Blizzard uses often stereotypes but they use them well in my opinion. I think Obsidian tries sometimes too hard to avoid stereotypes or power fantasies which are often used in RPG's and therefore feels lackluster in some areas. Also, not a single likable recurring NPC comes to mind when i think about the characters in the Pillars games.

These are world building aspects where i think Obsidian needs to improve.

I dunno fam. Like, I got no problem with a world where both 'Star Wars' and 'Embassytown' exist. Horses for courses etc. but i dont think holding the latter to the standards of the former achieves much.

 

fwiw I really enjoyed WC3. It was great fun. The best argument for blizzard's approach imo.

 

But i dont follow obs for writing like WC3's. I dont need - or want - every character in a game to be larger than life, a wife, husband, best mate, doujinshi bait. Etc.

 

- or a merch opportunity if im being nasty which im inclined to do regarding blizzard.

 

I appreciate that obs would benefit financially from throwing a bit more pulp out there but... eh... call me an old idealist but thats not always the point.

 

Also ive grown kind of attached to the lost and damaged folk that end up in the watchers orbit - that never quite become friends - kinda reminds me of the relationships ive had with many colleagues over the years.

[Cartoons Plural]

OP is basically saying kiss is better than zeppelin because its more focused and the acting is better

Edited November 28, 2018 by Cartoons Plural

[Verde]

thread is basically saying kiss is better than zeppelin because its more focused and the acting is better

Blasphemy. Jimmy Page is in a different universe than Paul Stanley.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Verde