max possible +PL

[mukurome]

I have some min-max question

 

What is the highest + Pl you guys get?

 

From my testing its +13 for cipher

+3 death godlike
+3 ascendent
+2 weapon
+2 potion
+1prestige feat
+1 brilliant
+1 amulet

 

is higher possible ?

[thelee]

that's not actually +13, due to stacking rules. potion and brilliant won't stack, neither will amulet. you should also specify that some of it is keyworded.

 

+3 (general) PL death godlike

+3 (cipher) ascendant

+2 (???? fire) weapon (assuming magran's favor)

+2 (general) potion of ascendance

+1 (general) prestige

 

brilliant and amulet are suppressed by potion.

 

also, i'm not positive, but i suspect that the ascendant PL bonus is an active effect itself and may suppress potion of ascendance.

Edited October 26, 2018 by thelee

[thelee]

that's not actually +13, due to stacking rules. potion and brilliant won't stack, neither will amulet. you should also specify that some of it is keyworded.

 

+3 (general) PL death godlike

+3 (cipher) ascendant

+2 (???? fire) weapon (assuming magran's favor)

+2 (general) potion of ascendance

+1 (general) prestige

 

brilliant and amulet are suppressed by potion.

 

also, i'm not positive, but i suspect that the ascendant PL bonus is an active effect itself and may suppress potion of ascendance.

 

to elaborate on the keywording:

 

in your scenario, a cipher using a cipher ability at near death would get +7 PL (death godlike bonus, ascendant, and then prestige)

 

that same cipher using a fire scroll would get +8 PL (death godlike bonus, magran's favor, potion, and then prestige)

[thelee]

spitballing, i think the highest possible bonus PL is a wizard subclass:

 

+3 (general) <passive> death godlike

+2 (wizard+evocation) <passive> evoker subclass

+1 (general) <passive> prestige

+2 (fire) <passive> magran's favor

+2 (fire) <passive> sun and moon, during the day

+2 (evocation) <passive> firethrower's gloves

+2 (general) <active> potion

+1 (general) <passive> spellshaping, reduced area

+1 (fire) <passive> Otto Starcat pet bonus

 

...and then being at near-death and casting a spell like fireball that is keyworded as both evocation, fire and can be spellshaped into a smaller area, for a total of +16PL (empower for an additional +5). I don't have a good knowledge of all the items in the game though, so there may be more ways to stack bonus PL.

 

edit - added sun and moon for +2. I forget if it's +2 or +1, but wrote +2 here based on wiki (which could be out of date)

 

edit2 - at level PL9 (since you have prestige), that fireball would actually get +22PL (+6 just for being PL9 versus fireball being a PL3 spell, +16PL bonus). Probably better off casting delayed fireball even with a smaller PL bonus.

 

edit3 - how could i possibly forget about Otto Starcat??

Edited October 27, 2018 by thelee

[mukurome]

hmm i always check this PL via spell dmg, and it seems that PL stack for cipher jus as i wrote:

+3 death godlike near death status also we gain +20% of damage from second death godlike adventake - so +3PL +20%dmg
+3 ascendent
+2 weapon - 2 handed spear from bounty give +2pl every time we are using effect of plant spells, spear activate woodskin at 50% so we trigger +2pl
+2 potion - not 100% sure if stack with brilliance, check it later
+1prestige feat
+1 brilliant - when cast at us from other cipher or, by activate brilliant cloack
+1 amulet pl seems to stack with all

So it's +13 for all cipher spells

[thelee]

hmm i always check this PL via spell dmg, and it seems that PL stack for cipher jus as i wrote:

+3 death godlike near death status also we gain +20% of damage from second death godlike adventake - so +3PL +20%dmg

+3 ascendent

+2 weapon - 2 handed spear from bounty give +2pl every time we are using effect of plant spells, spear activate woodskin at 50% so we trigger +2pl

+2 potion - not 100% sure if stack with brilliance, check it later

+1prestige feat

+1 brilliant - when cast at us from other cipher or, by activate brilliant cloack

+1 amulet pl seems to stack with all

 

So it's +13 for all cipher spells

 

this is worth a double-check. i could be wrong about some of my stacking interaction understanding, but I definitely tested potion and intellect inspiration stacking interaction for monastic unarmed training (in my case I used acute instead of brilliant) and they didn't stack. same thing with potion and food that gives you +PL bonus.

 

if amulet really does stack that would be a very pleasant surprise. you're talking about hte +1 intellect that gives you an ability to get +1 PL until end of combat? i thought because that was an actual ability you had to activate it wouldn't stack... but it wouldn't be surprising because items are a little weird sometimes. same thing about the cipher ascendant bonus.

 

edit - you mean the pike, not spear

 

edit2 - make sure when you're checking PL that you're ignoring the effects of PL bonus you get just for being at a higher PL than the ability you're using

Edited October 26, 2018 by thelee

[Boeroer]

No, the highest possible PL is a SC Death Godlike shifted Druid Livegiver with the Spine of Thicket Green (enchanted with +2 to plant and +2 to rejuvenation) using Power Surge and potion casting Pollen Patch:

 

+ 3 Death Godlike

+ 4 Spine of Thicket Green

+ 5 from Livegiver shifting

+ 2 Livegiver passive

+ 1 Power Surge

+ 1 Prestige

+ 1 Acute/Brilliant

+ 2 potion

+ 5 Empower

-----------------------------------------

+ 24 Power Level on top of 9 PL as single class. That's Pollen Patch's healing * 2.2 * (MIG bonus + Physiker's Belt + Practiced Healer). 

 

 

I played this - but as Nature Godlike. I also enchanted the Spine with +3 to plant and +3 to Beast and not +2 to Plant and +2 to Rejuvenation in order to dish out better Plagues. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

No, the highest possible PL is a Death Godlike shifted Druid Livegiver with the Spine of Thicket Green (enchanted with +2 to plant and +2 to rejuvenation) using Power Surge and potion casting Pollen Patch:

 

+ 3 PL Death Godlike

+ 4 PL Spine of Thicket Green

+ 5 PL from Livegiver shifting

+ 2 PL Livegiver

+ 1 Power Surge

+ 2 potion

-----------------------------------------

+17

 

touche. my first attempt at deadfire ever was with a completely unoptimized lifegiver. just from +8 PL (+7 subclass, +1 nature godlike) alone my party was basically immortal. can't imagine what +17 (pre empower) would be like.

 

i need to start using power surge a lot more if it stacks as a passive effect. (why did no one tellll me???)

Edited October 26, 2018 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Edited a bit to add all stuff (incl consumables). Am at 19 pre Empower. Forgot Prestige as well.

 

Also the Stone of Power resets its use if you have a second one and put them together to form a stack. So basically it's 1/encounter - kind of.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

Edited a bit to add all stuff (incl consumables). Am at 19 pre Empower. Forgot Prestige as well.

 

Also the Stone of Power resets its use if you have a second one and put them together to form a stack. So basically it's 1/encounter - kind of.

 

are you positive potion stacks with acute/brilliant? i'm not ruling out the possibility i was wrong, but my monastic unarmed training testing was so recent that I still vividly remembering the disappointment when I couldn't bump up my fists an additional level when I did acute + potion.

[Boeroer]

Ah. Maybe not. I seldomly use potions.

 

Usually potions don't stack with actives.

 

But maybe if Brilliant comes from the Shroud of Phantasm?

[InsaneCommander]

And can they game handle that +24? What is the maximum PL allowed by the code or the way it is calculated?

[thelee]

And can they game handle that +24? What is the maximum PL allowed by the code or the way it is calculated?

 

i would be surprised there's any effective cap, other than the explicitly mentioned by the game (35 for stats).

 

i don't do games coding or know much about unity, but it seems like the lowest reasonable maximum would be an unsigned 8-bit integer, or max of 255. which for all intents and purposes is no limit. (and more likely it's probably a 32-bit integer at the very least... we're not in the days where people only had megabytes of ram)

[Erik Dirk]

I was certain the amulet didn't stack with food or potions. No idea about brilliant.

[mukurome]

After some test :

Brilliant and amulet of power DO NOT stack

There is a new item from SPOILER _{New megaboss} that give ally +4PL, but i play only solo, so i cannot use it...

 

It seems that we can get biggest possible PL from:

 

Attack = Druid Venombloom/Plague of insect spell :

Armor +2 poison PL
Weapon + 3 those 2 skills PL

Rest as mentioned above

 

Defense/Healing = Druid Pollen Patch:

 

As mentioned above
 

[diamondsforever]

What is the benifit of maxing PL?

 

Are we just talking increased DPS, or does it include everything from buff time to ability duration?

 

What is the difference per PL?

 

Is it viable to build a solo character around MAX PL?

[thelee]

After some test :

 

Brilliant and amulet of power DO NOT stack

 

There is a new item from SPOILER _{New megaboss} that give ally +4PL, but i play only solo, so i cannot use it...

 

It seems that we can get biggest possible PL from:

 

Attack = Druid Venombloom/Plague of insect spell :

 

Armor +2 poison PL

Weapon + 3 those 2 skills PL

Rest as mentioned above

 

Defense/Healing = Druid Pollen Patch:

 

As mentioned above

 

 

it seems like from attack, my evoker combination is the best you can do (+16 PL). Boeroer's list involved stacking brilliant, amulet of power, and potion, which we've now verified from different angles do not stack.

 

What is the benifit of maxing PL?

 

Are we just talking increased DPS, or does it include everything from buff time to ability duration?

 

What is the difference per PL?

 

Is it viable to build a solo character around MAX PL?

 

I think it's just a fun exercise. For specifics about power level scaling, you should read the power level scaling guide.

[InsaneCommander]

What is the benifit of maxing PL?

 

Are we just talking increased DPS, or does it include everything from buff time to ability duration?

 

What is the difference per PL?

 

Is it viable to build a solo character around MAX PL?

 

You can find an extensive analysis here.

 

But basically it is this:

 

A. if a spell bounces or has projectiles, it gets an additional bounce or projectile every other PL. Spells used to have variable projectile scaling but it looks like that got nerfed at some point and they appear to get .5 projectile per PL.

B. if a spell does damage/healing, it gets +5% per PL. Non-bounce, non-projectile damage/heals used to get up to 10%, but looks like that was nerfed at some point.

C. if the spell has duration effects, it gets a longer duration of +5% per PL.

D. if the spell has penetration, it gets an additional +.25 penetration per PL (rounds up to the nearest tenth).

E1. if the spell has an accuracy roll, it gets +1 accuracy per PL.

E2. if the spell primarily only has that accuracy roll (no damage/healing, no duration effect), it instead gets a +2 accuracy per PL. I'm not actually sure how many of these types of spells exist, but I noticed this while playing with Repulsing Seal (which only does a prone). Slicken is another example of a prone-only thing (though it also has a hazard duration, a hazard duration must not prevent a spell from getting +2 accuracy per PL).

 

Empowering a spell gets you +5 PL to that spell when you cast it.

Edited October 27, 2018 by InsaneCommander

[mukurome]

"it seems like from attack, my evoker combination is the best you can do (+16 PL)."

 

+16 PL for evoker ? without mods ?

[thelee]

Yeah, see my post upthread:

 

spitballing, i think the highest possible bonus PL is a wizard subclass:

 

 

 

+3 (general) <passive> death godlike

 

+2 (evocation) <passive> evoker subclass

 

+1 (general) <passive> prestige

 

+2 (fire) <passive> magran's favor

 

+2 (fire) <passive> sun and moon, during the day

 

+2 (evocation) <passive> firethrower's gloves

 

+2 (general) <active> potion

 

+1 (general) <passive> spellshaping, reduced area

 

+1 (fire) <passive> Otto Starcat pet bonus

 

 

 

...and then being at near-death and casting a spell like fireball that is keyworded as both evocation, fire and can be spellshaped into a smaller area, for a total of +16PL (empower for an additional +5). I don't have a good knowledge of all the items in the game though, so there may be more ways to stack bonus PL.

[mukurome]

Yeah, see my post upthread:

 

spitballing, i think the highest possible bonus PL is a wizard subclass:

 

+2 (evocation) <passive> firethrower's gloves

 

 

 

 

Gloves give +1evoker PL - just tested

 

Aanyway You are right - wizzard evoker max possible PL is higher than Druid.

 

So evoker fire spell can get max possible PL - topic solved

[Archaven]

hmm... i often only use empower to replenish resource. maybe i should start to use more empower?

[Lampros]

hmm... i often only use empower to replenish resource. maybe i should start to use more empower?

 

Me 3