Improvement for Spiritshift

[Hoo]

I've felt that the Spiritshift needs a little more buff, since the form is relatively getting worse and worse because the late game gears are very powerful.

 

Currently, the forms cannot take advantage of those passive abilities at all while spiritshifting. I think Druid builds, which especially focus on the shift form, are somewhat rigid and not funny due to this.

 

I'd suggest the form to get armors' passive bonuses, so Druid builds would be much more variable imo. Of course the AR change from the form should remain as it is. What do you think of this?

[Boeroer]

Spiritshift lets you use all items except armor and weapons. I think that's good enough and you can build around that.

 

For example a Fury/Bleak Walker can get +4 PEN and +20 ACC with FoD attacks while shifted (Ring of the Marksman, Scion of Flame, Spirit of Decay, Heart of the Storm, Ring of Focused Flame, +10 ACC from FoD). That's pretty good compared to most unique weapons.

 

However, I would make sure that there's proficiencies for spiritshift weapons or that they count as unarmed - so that Haymaker works and Devoted/Shifter can make use of his +2 PEN.

 

I also don't understand why Transcendent Suffering sclaes with Power Level but Spiritshift (and summoned) weapons do not. That would make single class Shapeshifer much more interesting. I also think the high lvl Wildstrike abilites are a bit lame.

 

Aaand I would raise the base damage of the spiritshift weapons a bit. Works better with the lashes of Wildstrike and in combo with other martial classes (like rogue).

[AndreaColombo]

...and undo the Wildstrike nerf, of course.

[InsaneCommander]

You can also try this mod.

[Elric Galad]

Well, I wonder if we're looking in the right direction.

Spiritshift provide Brigandine-like protection with 0% recovery. It seems a worthy upgrade for a caster's defense. It might be the best reason to go spiritshift.

[Harpagornis]

The vanilla Shifter always felt boring to me so we started the Spiritshifting: Evolution project. The mod is still in progress but you can find the latest version here:

 

Druid Spiritshifting: Evolution

 

It changes the animal forms completly as they get new abilities, talents, passives and you can even shift more than one time later on. To make it short: Fast and furious!

Edited October 20, 2018 by Harpagornis

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

So the vanilla shifter felt boring to you and you decided to break the game with it?  

[Harpagornis]

It felt boring but i could see lots of potential @Hulk´O´Saurus. Have you already tried the mod or why are you calling it gamebreaking?   
 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Harpagornis

[Elric Galad]

To be fair, I agree with the previous comment.

 

Stuff like :

Level 19: Gets +35 all Defenses, [...]

Sounds utterly OP.

Consider that Paladin that is "the passive Tank class" can get +15 all defenses at most.

 

There is a lots of work behind the mod, and a lots of nice ideas too. I totally understand why you wanted to add more unique stuff to shifter.

 

But Modders ususually break the game when adding/changing classes and subclasses. The tendancy to Power Creep Mod when adding classes and features has been true since BG2 time.
Yeah, it's a single player game so everyone might have fun as she/he pleased.

But when looking for a Mod, I would be happy to find a bit less stuff with a bit more balance.

 

For example, you could keep most of the "new features" you've added (except the most broken ones such as Stag defenses) but also add severe penalties such as cutting spellcasting (yes, completely) and letting the form specific abilities you've added as selectable abilities.

So you keep your ideas but also the balance.

But well, that's just me and that's your mod, so  ^^

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Currently I'm playing a Mage Slayer/Shifter with Deadly Deadfire on. That's arguably more penalties on top of what you've already done, but without the benefits of shifting. While it isn't a class that can solo the game like an Arcane Knight can, it's quite alright. I even did a small video in the thread you posted, as well.

 

While I do agree than perhaps the class is a bit flat, and some of the abilities seem exciting and fun, I must say that some of the benefits are really, really strong. From what I understood, you're giving a number of possible shifts for each form, which means that you'll be able to cycle between bear, stag, wolf, or whatever else the situation calls for. I also saw penetration bonus for all forms, as well. I do appreciate the greater variety and adaptability, but I think it's too strong now .  

[Harpagornis]

Which video do you mean @Hulk`O´Saurus? Oh, i agree that the new Shifter is quite strong and very adaptive but the mod is still in progress so toning it down should be no "big deal". But is it really stronger than scroll spamming? Hmmmmm...

 

P.S. +35 defense for Stag so far was not OP and my Shifter still gets hit a lot! But okay i havent tested all multiclassing or item combos as i dont have the time for it. The +defense was an idea from @mant2si to compensate for the loss of a shield and other stuff when being shifted.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Harpagornis

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Scrolls are a good way for people with less experience of the game to get into it. It`s a sort of an equalizer. That`s why everybody can use them to almost the same success. But once you do go through the game with scrolls, you wonder if there aren`t other ways you could do things. 

 

The way the Evo Shifter functions is a bit too universally good. It`s a bit ironic that mant2si--somebody who has become dissappointed with Paladin passives, suggests that a class should get a boost to it`s weak sides. Most classes, probably with the exception of Paladin, Monk and Chanter, have some sort of balancing factor, which comes down to limited resources or offset stats. If you want Shifter to be there on the top of the meta(stupid word for a single player rpg), then by all means.   

 

The vid I'm talking about is this--https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/106376-which-are-the-two-least-optimal-or-tuned-up-multi-class-combinations/. 

 

I've chosen two sub-optimal, or at least, not very popular classes to run the game on potd, upscaled and deadly Deadfire modded. I will be uploading a few other vids before I post a separate thread xD. 

[Harpagornis]

Feedback is always welcome even more when combined with some practical tests of the new Shifter. So if you give me some (more) points where i have went wrong that is appreciated.

 

Dont forget that the Evo Shifter lost all elemental spells and cannot use scrolls. I think these two points (plus the fact that most items wont work when being shifted) should give us "a lot" of freedom for some powerful abilities. But yeah - balancing the class is really hard when changing lots of things.

 

Just send me a PM or use the Shifter thread to give me more details. I am really fast at changing stuff!

Edited October 20, 2018 by Harpagornis

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Bear in mind I'm playing a vanilla shifter. 

 

You might actually look into disabling all offensive druid spells altogether. 

[Zerggerberg]

Some of the classes are obsolete on PotD difficulty. one of them is fury druid as aoe damage dealer. Problem is PotD requires max out perception (and even then half of your skills will miss) but problem is you also need int and might. So you are left with only two options, either you are druid which does close to no damage, or druid who can't hit anyone. You can still finish game even on PotD but you will get carried by party.

[Elric Galad]

P.S. +35 defense for Stag so far was not OP and my Shifter still gets hit a lot! But okay i havent tested all multiclassing or item combos as i dont have the time for it. The +defense was an idea from @mant2si to compensate for the loss of a shield and other stuff when being shifted.

 

You don't loose a shield & other stuff. You just trade a shield for dual wield. Dual wield is good too but having dual wield & very high defenses is too much IMHO. 

 

Sorry to say this but if you don't see why a bonus that is x2,33 better than the current best class at Defenses (Paladin) is OP, I suppose I won't be able to convince you anyway  .

It might not break the game but it is still OP IMHO.

 

Your mod sounds very nice, don't worry, and it has a lot of contents (which would make it hard to balance anyway). 

 

The problem is that I would have to agree with the following statement :

 

So the vanilla shifter felt boring to you and you decided to break the game with it?

 

Although "break the game" might be a bit excessive

Edited October 25, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Harpagornis]

Thanks for your feedback @Elric Galad!

 

If you take a look at the "Final Evolution" you will see that lot of things have changed:

 

- The defense bonus for the Stag has been toned down significantly (7 -> 14 -> 21)

 

- Furthermore the T3 animals will only be available for Single Class Shifters (PL8!).

 

- Spell Casting in animal form has been disabled.

 

- In Human Form the Shifter will suffer a stackable defense loss each time he gets damaged.

 

Its still not perfect but much more challenging than before!

Edited October 25, 2018 by Harpagornis

[Elric Galad]

It sounds good.

 

I don't know if it's balanced (and I admit I don't have the time for a complete review) but as I said above it would have been difficult anyway with the numbers of abilities you added.

Anyway, Spell removed while shifting and decreasing defense in human form makes the spellcasting abilities of the druid more dangerous and complicated to use (while still useable). So yeah, now it sounds more like twist than power creeping.