Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

So: Why Do People Hate Sorcerers And Thaumaturges?


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#21
pi2repsion

pi2repsion

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 296 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

But if you want to play a certain build then who cares about synergy or efficiency? I'm considering a Druid/Wizard or Druid/Chanter focused on ice spells for a future playthrough.

 

Caster/Chanter is pretty sweet in general, fwiw

 

It certainly is, but then, Chanter goes with everything. :)

 

Ranged or melee, caster or martial, and healer, buffer, debuffer, controller, or damagedealer - whatever your intended role for a character the chanter has the tools to multiclass nicely with it.


  • Xsanf likes this

#22
Manveru123

Manveru123

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 288 posts

Uhh Chanter used to be great for casters because he had a Brilliant invocation, but I don't really see is being that great now.



#23
Verde

Verde

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 556 posts
  • Steam:DragonSoundxSG

I think double casters have too many spells. That can be a good thing, but if you choose well and have other characters with these classes you'll be much better. I ended up changing Fassina to Aloth in my party, although I really like the Druid/Wizard combination.

But if you want to play a certain build then who cares about synergy or efficiency? I'm considering a Druid/Wizard or Druid/Chanter focused on ice spells for a future playthrough.


If you like a build that's all that matters. I was only speaking from a matter of opinion. I'm certainly no powergamer.

#24
baldurs_gate_2

baldurs_gate_2

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 401 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Uhh Chanter used to be great for casters because he had a Brilliant invocation, but I don't really see is being that great now.

Still good, because the animated weapon's can kill high AR enemies, where your spells don't pen anymore.



#25
gkathellar

gkathellar

    (12) Mage

  • Members
  • 1961 posts
  • Location:Region of Erroneous Complaint
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Uhh Chanter used to be great for casters because he had a Brilliant invocation, but I don't really see is being that great now.

 
Getting unlimited spells at 19th level was cute, but it was never the reason why the combination was good at every level. Phrases present one of the few strong ways for a caster to improve their action economy, are an effective compliment to caster classes that otherwise lack an abundance of passive abilities, and can help fill the holes in spell lists. In addition, invocations and spells alternate really naturally, tending towards a pattern of "Invocation, Spell, Spell, Invocation, Spell, Spell," with the chanter's infinite-but-time-reliant resources synchronizing excellently with a caster's lengthy-but-abundant spell resources.
 
That's not to say that Chanter/[Caster] is the One Multiclass To Rule Them All, but it's a very natural combination that tends towards a very specific variation on caster playstyle.

 

Still good, because the animated weapon's can kill high AR enemies, where your spells don't pen anymore.

 

Hel-Hyraf also helps with AR for your spells, and summons in general can be a godsend to the solo player.


Edited by gkathellar, 11 August 2018 - 12:35 PM.


#26
Manveru123

Manveru123

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 288 posts

 

 
Getting unlimited spells at 19th level was cute, but it was never the reason why the combination was good at every level. Phrases present one of the few strong ways for a caster to improve their action economy, are an effective compliment to caster classes that otherwise lack an abundance of passive abilities, and can help fill the holes in spell lists. In addition, invocations and spells alternate really naturally, tending towards a pattern of "Invocation, Spell, Spell, Invocation, Spell, Spell," with the chanter's infinite-but-time-reliant resources synchronizing excellently with a caster's lengthy-but-abundant spell resources.
 
That's not to say that Chanter/[Caster] is the One Multiclass To Rule Them All, but it's a very natural combination that tends towards a very specific variation on caster playstyle.

 

 

But there are no chants that directly improve spellcasting profficiency. Quite the opposite actually. So if you do chant, all you're doing is buffing your party members, and that's something another character can do. Invocations are surely useful at the beginning, when the caster has very little spells, but at high levels you will almost never run out of spells during combat, because it will be over by that time.



#27
Dr <3

Dr <3

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 967 posts
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
Myth fyr gives you 15% fire lash, even on spell. Old siec gives you 12% life leech on dmg, even from spell dmg. Chants CAN boost your spells.

( Invocation too btw. A fireball casted on a bunch of paralyzed enemies >> a fireball with 1 or 2 more power levels)

#28
Manveru123

Manveru123

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 288 posts

..or you can use Ningauth's Fireball which also Paralyzes :p

 

The description of Myth Fyr states that it only works on weapon damage. If it affects spells, it's clearly a bug.



#29
gkathellar

gkathellar

    (12) Mage

  • Members
  • 1961 posts
  • Location:Region of Erroneous Complaint
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Even if chants didn't boost your spells, the point is that they do helpful things in the background, such as passive AoE damage, healing, defense boosts, etc. That's useful. Is it as useful as being a full caster? Maybe, maybe not - it's a different playstyle, but a functional one with its own virtues.

#30
insertcoin

insertcoin

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 4 posts

Sorcerer (Fury/Evoker) is actually my favourite caster setup to play at the moment. Admittedly a ways behind a single class caster for reasons already stated, but still more than sufficient for standard POTD in my experiences.

 

 

I think an exception should be made for Tekehu: His Druid subclass is top-tier.

 
I wish his Druid subclass, and to a lesser extent the chanter one, was available to the player without mods. That FoE Chill Fog is something else.


#31
Malkoy

Malkoy

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 53 posts
  • Location:Canada

Synergy is the word everyone uses. Deciphering: intent behind building multi-class for many is either to enhance strength of one or both classes, mitigate inherent weaknesses in one or both classes, or allow things that no class could do on their own.

 

Most often than not fun factor is not accounted for. I personally dislike Paladins that are not Goldpact or Bleakwalker (who are very niche to me RP wise) from mechanics perspective, but I would take Kind Wayfarers for RP any day over these two.

 

I had tremendous amount of fun playing Lord of the Imps recently, which is IMPractical, at least for solo PotD.

 

Most people are drawn to theorycrafting with a goal in mind to solve a problem. And choosing play-style or RP preference is not a problem. Creating a build that adheres to your play-style AND can accomplish a goal in mind (PotD, solo, Triple Crown, challenges etc) is the problem. That's why people "hate" Sorcerers and Thaumaturges. It does not match their play-style or it does not help them with their goals.

 

I for example "hate" barbs, monks and druids because they don't match my playstyle. And "love" Herald (Paladin/Chanter), because it allows me to clear Solo+Berath's Challenge :p  


Edited by Malkoy, 12 August 2018 - 02:12 AM.


#32
mant2si

mant2si

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 389 posts

Lack of PL 
Lack of Passives
Lack of High Level Bonuses
Lack of Action Speed



#33
Stardusk78

Stardusk78

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 147 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

 

Sorcerer (Fury/Evoker) is actually my favourite caster setup to play at the moment. Admittedly a ways behind a single class caster for reasons already stated, but still more than sufficient for standard POTD in my experiences.

 

 

I think an exception should be made for Tekehu: His Druid subclass is top-tier.

 
I wish his Druid subclass, and to a lesser extent the chanter one, was available to the player without mods. That FoE Chill Fog is something else.

 

It is such a minor mod. Just unlock hidden classes. That is it.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users