A question about Pallegina in Deadfire (spoilers)

[handsomenat]

Thanks for bringing up the content related to Crookspur and Poko Kahara, I never brought Pallegina there with me so I had no idea how she reacts to that. I think I'll do this in my current playthrough. I'll admit... I was kinda heartbroken for Pallegina because my dumb self believed that the hinted Kind Wayfarer ending would mean more personal growth for Pallegina. Filling the space left by Republics with her own personhood? Sorry if I make little sense. But ultimately it wasn't that kind of story.

[Verde]

Josh has addressed this before. Pallegina is in an abusive relationship with the Republics. They can do whatever they want to her and she'll blame herself for upsetting them.

I.e. the one line excuse as to why they didn't put any extra effort into her. It's simply not believable that a char would not have an ounce of skeptism after being thrown out on the streets. Imho she is the worst written companion besides Serafen, who takes the cake for staying silent through the whole Furrante/slaving debacle.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Verde

[gkathellar]

 

Josh has addressed this before. Pallegina is in an abusive relationship with the Republics. They can do whatever they want to her and she'll blame herself for upsetting them.

I.e. the one line excuse as to why they didn't put any extra effort into her. It's simply not believable that a char would not have an ounce of skeptism after being thrown out on the streets.

 

She's not skeptical because as far as she's concerned it's her own fault (and maybe also the Watcher's). No matter what the Republics do to her, in her mind it will always be her own fault. That's what emotional abuse does to a person.

[lmao_zedong]

 

Josh has addressed this before. Pallegina is in an abusive relationship with the Republics. They can do whatever they want to her and she'll blame herself for upsetting them.

I.e. the one line excuse as to why they didn't put any extra effort into her. It's simply not believable that a char would not have an ounce of skeptism after being thrown out on the streets. Imho she is the worst written companion besides Serafen, who takes the cake for staying silent through the whole Furrante/slaving debacle.

 

I would've agreed when I made this thread, but I think it does make more sense if you picture it as a parent-child sort of relationship. At least that way, her self-sacrificing behavior doesn't seem so bizarre.

 

I can't answer how she came to love the VR so fiercely, but she says as much in the game.

[Verde]

 

 

Josh has addressed this before. Pallegina is in an abusive relationship with the Republics. They can do whatever they want to her and she'll blame herself for upsetting them.

I.e. the one line excuse as to why they didn't put any extra effort into her. It's simply not believable that a char would not have an ounce of skeptism after being thrown out on the streets.

She's not skeptical because as far as she's concerned it's her own fault (and maybe also the Watcher's). No matter what the Republics do to her, in her mind it will always be her own fault. That's what emotional abuse does to a person.

She says she believes in the Republics and wants to give them her all because she can't have kids. This sounds more motherly. Which I can accept. However Pallegina's personality being the same regardless of POE1 choices is simply laziness. Look how they retconned the Kind Wayfarers.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Verde

[Tick]

At first I did assume Pallegina would have different routes /notes because video game rules /tropes and because of Aloth, but I would be far more surprised if she suddenly had a drastic change of opinions because of her exile. That doesn't really jive with her character. And if the changes that *might* be there are like three words (not a sentence), developers probably wouldn't think it's worth adding it.

 

Also, I honestly can't confirm or disprove either way, but multiple people have talked about how she might have more issues with a rebel Watcher if she was exiled. I have no idea if that's true.

[Verde]

You'd be surprised that her personality changed if she was exiled vs. not 0_o ? What is the point of any decision in POE1 if Obsidian is just going to give us boilerplate personalities? I feel like you guys are giving Obsidian too much credit. They are paid to defend their work. Do you really think they had some elaborate scheme or that they took the simplest route due to constraints? I mean we are talking about a game where you might not fight the final boss due to a bug (yes I experienced this).

Edited August 3, 2018 by Verde

[Tick]

I think I maybe miscommunicated a bit.

 

Pallegina's personality and beliefs are very strongly rooted and, as mentioned before, I'm pretty sure that she cares very little what the Republics do to *her. *. She might have doubts about some of their actions to others, but she doesn't care so much about her own well being. If the Republics did something especially unfair /bull**** to her, things might be different, but I'm sure she was well aware that there might be serious consequences for disobeying orders.

 

As a result, it would have surprised me that Pallegina's attitude and perspective wildly changed from exile versus not. I *might* expect her to be more freaked out about things that might get her exiled or shamed again, but I definitely wouldn't expect her to be at all anti Republics.

 

So what I'm saying is, I expect our decisions to affect her, but not her views about the Republics *in this case.* And if the only possible difference as a result would be so minor as to be more work than it's worth, then I would understand why Obsidian wouldn't focus on it.

 

The game gives you a solid idea of what happened to her and how she feels about it. It's not like it forgot it happened.

 

 

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Side note, whoever said Serafen didn't react to the Principi slavery thing, that was not my experience. Unfortunately there's not a hub conversation about it, but if you have him with he very regularly responds to what's going on and what you're doing.

[Verde]

Yeah well maybe it was bug with me but Seraf only made one comment early on about slavery then kept quiet thereafter. It's these reasons why I don't give Obsidian the benefit of the doubt - whether bugs or absent writing. Another example? The slaughter at the Citadel. Maia doesn't say anything until you're on your ship then she leaves. Never mind you just slaughtered everyone she felt near and dear too - she decides to write a letter how many hrs/days later. It's simply bad show for Obsidian who did an admirable job with writing in the first game, exposition and all.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Verde

[Zap Gun For Hire]

Yeah well maybe it was bug with me but Seraf only made one comment early on about slavery then kept quiet thereafter. It's these reasons why I don't give Obsidian the benefit of the doubt - whether bugs or absent writing. Another example? The slaughter at the Citadel. Maia doesn't say anything until you're on your ship then she leaves. Never mind you just slaughtered everyone she felt near and dear too - she decides to write a letter how many hrs/days later. It's simply bad show for Obsidian who did an admirable job with writing in the first game, exposition and all.

He's very vocal about slavery on the Slaver questline.  Considering his background, not exactly a surprise.

 

He also, under the right conditions, will yell at the Watcher for dabbling in slavery (real or imagined).  Enough so that I think it is possible for him to leave your party.

 

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I think a large part of the problem is with a game this complex it's nearly impossible to see all of the companions/sidekicks attitudes on a couple of runs.  Even several runs in and I'm still discovering new things about the characters.

 

As an aside, I think Serafen is one of the better written companions:  Has a cheerful, almost hedonistic surface that is actually a defense mechanism for a **** ton of pain and suffering.

 

That's not so rare. His insistence on saying "**** it" to the pain when it actually bubbles up to the surface, a bit more rare.  And welcome, from where I'm sitting.

 

As for Pallengina?  Already chimed in a large degree about her, but her actions make complete sense to me.  Even in the exile path.  After all it doesn't have to be how you or indeed most people might react to a situation.  All it has to be is believable that someone with her personality traits and background might react that way.

 

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Finally, this ain't a Visual Novel or similar RPG.  The companion quests/plotlines ARE important, but they're not the main dish.  Having two radically different Pallenginas in the game, even if it might make sense, is a tall ask.  Ultimately it comes down to an issue of priorities and where one spends money/time.

 

What they did with Pallengina worked for me (a lot, BTW).  Might not have for you. That's why it's called YMMV, I suppose.

[Verde]

It is a tall dish and I can accept that, albiet being disappointed. For example, all the companion banter with Vela on the ship - was that necessary at all?

 

So where I'm coming from is, I love PoE1 and 2, but I think they missed some major opportunities in PoE2 to raise the bar. I can confirm that Serafan doesn't say a thing after a clear our Crookspur. So whether it's a bug or absent writing, it kills me motivation to use him anymore. It doesn't need to be a visual novel - it's a 60+hr RPG with tons of content and some misprioritization that could have been better spent on companions. They want to want to have an import function (that doesnt even work on launch) then they need to make their bed and sleep in it, as harsh as I'm being.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Verde