Romance in KoTOR 2

[kefka]

MCA has the right attitude.  Honestly, I think that, besides some juvenile fascination (not to demean juvenile fascination-- I can be pretty juvenile myself in certain situations), the key allure of the romances is not that they're romantic, but that they represent the only in-depth character interaction in the vast majority of CRPGs.  If more gamers had experienced NPC interactions of considerable depth but without the hokey romantic aspect, I think that fan support for romances per se would not be nearly as strong.

Oh yes... I agree completely. where's the "thumbs up" smiley when you need one?

 

[Craftsman]

Can we have that Mafia secen in KOTOR 2?

[Drakron]

The fade to black scene in KotOR1 reminded me of Casablanca, where the viewer is sort of left to fill in the blanks for themselves, which I really didn't mind.

 

I personally think the best such scene in a videogame was in Mafia.

Oh I remenber that one ... of course Mafia is a M rated game ...

[Darque]

The fade to black scene in KotOR1 reminded me of Casablanca, where the viewer is sort of left to fill in the blanks for themselves, which I really didn't mind.

Personally I think I'd prefer things this way.

[Jaesun]

RPG romances, the greatest waste of dev time.

 

[Sarkile]

RPG romances, the greatest waste of dev time.

 

At least if they make a Bioware romance it won't eat up too much of their time making it.

[Jaesun]

RPG romances, the greatest waste of dev time.

 

At least if they make a Bioware romance it won't eat up too much of their time making it.

 

lol ok you DO have a point there.

[HaleyFalk]

i was under the impression from reading Electronic Gaming Monthly that there were going to be romances involved. i don't see why the wouldn't have them considering that previous games have done so well with them. Personally I think that that was one of the things that made KOTOR so awesome, and I think it's safe to say that every other girl gamer would agree with me as we are all in love with Carth hehehe So I definetly support romance in KOTOR II as I think we all do

[Maria Caliban]

Kumquatq3:

" I reread, and my post remains "

 

Actually, my post wasn't directed at you nor did I have any disagreement with the point you had just made.

 

Vyperhand:

" [Force Persuade] You want to change your preferences to not include hairy animals."

 

The last thing you want on your starship is a wookie suffering from sexual frustration. Trust me on this: Let the wookie get some.

 

Evil.E:

" I always felt that romances in the middle of stories where the galaxies fate lyes in the balance were a bit far fetched. It's like your characters have no clue as to the gravity of what's at stake."

 

People who undergo traumatic situations together (like constantly being attacked or trying to save the universe) tend to develop intense bonds. Likewise, it was implied that Bastila was your soul mate, it's not like she's just some girl you picked up in a bar on your way to the next Epic Battle.

 

Gorth:

" The Bastila romance was silly. She showed about as much warmth and passion as a tax statement."

 

Yes, but she has a British accent. Do not underestimate the power of a British accent.

[kumquatq3]

Actually, my post wasn't directed at you nor did I have any disagreement with the point you had just made.

 

Cool, then please make some reference to who you are speaking to, if it's not the above post.

[Maria Caliban]

If I had been addressing someone in particular, kumquatq, I would have done just that.

[The Situationist]

Gorth:

" The Bastila romance was silly. She showed about as much warmth and passion as a tax statement."

 

Yes, but she has a British accent. Do not underestimate the power of a British accent.

True, that.

[Drakron]

Japonese schoolgirl outfit > british accent.

[Jaesun]

SO if we have romances in KotOR II, what will the gay romance involve?

 

[Draxle]

I don't like to lock CNPC quest down to romance quests - it's more like we have relationship quests in K2, which aren't tied solely to romance but how much you are an example to your allies and how you treat them. Things like building friendships, loyalties, developing grudging respect or contempt, and occasionally the need to strangle the life out of each other will occur. And you can cheerfully shut them all down and ignore them if you want, though your companions may occasionally lay into each other without prompting.

With all due respect, I must say that I most forcefully disagree with this statement. Although the building of friendships and loyalties is important, and should be a factor in the NPC interaction, I believe that the romance aspect of KOTOR is, hands down, the single most influential aspect of the game's storyline. I know that, for me personally, it was the incredible effect the romance storyline had on me that made me want to keep playing KOTOR again and again and again.

 

In all honesty, it was the romance that made KOTOR really worth playing. It injected a potent spice into a tried-and-true save the galaxy type of adventure. At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I will come forward and say it: when my character was able to bring Bastila back from the dark side and have her actually say those magic words "I love you, too. With all my heart,".... well, that scene gave me shivers. It was powerful, powerful stuff, and it's what really made me sit back and go "WOW" after the final credits rolled across the scene.

 

To remove or lessen the romances in KOTOR II would be to deprive the game of one of its most crucial and powerful elements. While the intent in doing such may be good, I think that, for many fans, the romances and their wonderful complexity are really what make KOTOR stand head and shoulders above the crowd. For proof of that statement, just look at all of the KOTOR fan fictions that have been made... virtually -all- of those center on the various aspects of the romances.

 

I think that, if anything, instead of lessening romances in favor of more mundance "let's be friends" situations, I think KOTOR II should have -more- romances. Maybe even give us multiple romance options in the manner of Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and then have those characters fight it out for the main characters affection. That would be very interesting, methinks.

 

So, to reiterate, I believe that removing or lessening KOTOR's wonderful romances would be very detrimental. If anything, the focus should be to expand, expand, expand!

[Gorth]

...it was the incredible effect the romance storyline had on me that made me want to keep playing KOTOR again and again and again.

^^

You are easy to satisfy.

 

...the romances and their wonderful complexity are really what make KOTOR stand head and shoulders above the crowd.

^^ :ph34r:

Perhaps, that says more about the crowd.

 

For proof of that statement, just look at all of the KOTOR fan fictions that have been made... virtually -all- of those center on the various aspects of the romances.

^^ :D

All the little Romeos.

 

I think KOTOR II should have -more- romances. Maybe even give us multiple romance options in the manner of Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and then have those characters fight it out for the main characters affection.

^^

Girlfriends must be in serious short supply somewhere...

 

If anything, the focus should be to expand, expand, expand!

^^ B)

Try "Leasure Suit Larry"

 

Kotor2 definitely need more work put into the NPC's and the story, the usefulness of skills, etc. There is only so much developer resources to go around. So what are they going to do with that time ? A Star Wars game or soft porn ?

[Draxle]

^^ 

You are easy to satisfy

 

And what, may I ask, is your standard for measuring a game? How many cool things you can do and how much stuff you can blow up? The fact is, few games offer the level of character development that KOTOR does, hence the reason it's a game worthy playing more than once.

 

^^ 

Perhaps, that says more about the crowd.

 

KOTOR is one of many RPGs in the field. However, none of the others have received the accolades and prestige, which logically speaks for the game's quality. See the link for details http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic/awards/

 

^^ 

All the little Romeos.

 

Ironically enough, most of the fan fics are written by females. As such, your snide comment would have been more accurate if you had used "All the little Juliets" instead. It would be prudent to have some background knowledge in the matter before making assumptions, you know.

 

^^ 

Girlfriends must be in serious short supply somewhere... 

 

 

Sorry, friend, but you're really going to have to do better than the obsolete "girlfriend" arguement. Quite frankly, it's not only blatantly stereotypical, it's also woefully outdated, as video games have slowly begun to enter the mainstream. I could stand here and waste my time explaining about how my girlfriend enjoys playing KOTOR with me, but it would be silly of me to have to prove myself against such a silly counter-arguement.

 

I would also like to ask that, if only single people are interested in 'romance' stories, as you seem to claim, how does that factor in with the various works and contributions made during the Romantic era? Why would it be that Shakespeare is considered one of the foremost play-writes of his time if he was only writing for sappy, love-sick squires that were deprived of their true loves, etc etc?

 

^^ 

Try "Leasure Suit Larry"

 

Kotor2 definitely need more work put into the NPC's and the story, the usefulness of skills, etc. There is only so much developer resources to go around. So what are they going to do with that time ? A Star Wars game or soft porn ?

 

 

Soft porn, huh? Are we playing the same game here? Or perhaps a 'fade-to-black' kiss is considered to be pornographic these days? I don't believe that requesting deeper and more involving romances requires anything that would be sexually explicit. Ironically enough, it would be a terrible sin if they were taken in that direction. Also, please note that I didn't say NPC interaction should be left to romance options only... I was merely stating that romances should be pushed to the way-side, as many (myself included) still feel that they are an important, perhaps even crucial addition to the game's enjoyability.

[Gorth]

Soft porn, huh? Are we playing the same game here? Or perhaps a 'fade-to-black' kiss is considered to be pornographic these days? I don't believe that requesting deeper and more involving romances requires anything that would be sexually explicit. Ironically enough, it would be a terrible sin if they were taken in that direction. Also, please note that I didn't say NPC interaction should be left to romance options only... I was merely stating that romances should be pushed to the way-side, as many (myself included) still feel that they are an important, perhaps even crucial addition to the game's enjoyability.

I was partially expressing a worry about some peoples fascination with pixellated people and partially poking fun at you.

 

Romances adds a nice touch to games, but unless the game is about the romance, it should take backseat (no pun intended) in deference of the main story. If "romances" are to be done well (which I didn't think they were in Kotor1), they require a lot of resources (scripting, writing, testing, voice acting etc.) which has a detrimental effects on those parts of the game that gets sacrificed for it.

 

Oh, and

[Child of Flame]

From Chris Avellone in the Questions to the Devs thread:

 

I don't like to lock CNPC quest down to romance quests - it's more like we have relationship quests in K2, which aren't tied solely to romance but how much you are an example to your allies and how you treat them. Things like building friendships, loyalties, developing grudging respect or contempt, and occasionally the need to strangle the life out of each other will occur. And you can cheerfully shut them all down and ignore them if you want, though your companions may occasionally lay into each other without prompting.

 

I'm sorry, but I think this is an horrible idea. One of the reasons that KoTOR has been rated the best RPG of all time across all platforms is because of the romances. While I do like the other interactions, and look forward to them, cutting out the romance is simply awful.

 

KoTOR was very inspiring to many, many people, due in large part to the character development that was there when the PC was drawing romantically closer to either Carth or Bastila. Romances are included in just about every piece of classical literature out there, from every genre. There is a universal appeal about them, which is one of the reasons why Baldur's Gate II was such an enormous success as well.

 

The romances are one of the most talked about aspects of the game. The majourity of players love having them in there, and truly appreciate how much they added to the enjoyment of playing KoTOR. I know many, many people are looking forward to the romances in KoTOR 2, and when I asked at E3, I was informed by LA that there would be romances in the story.

 

Looking at it from purely a writer's standpoint, love is the single most powerful and most used device out there. Using Star Wars, the Han/Leia romance aside, the catalyst for most of the movies was love. Luke's love for Obi Wan, Luke's love for his friends, and finally, Luke's love for his father. It's difficult to inspire that kind of devotion in a third person environment like a game without using the romance card.

 

Please, please reconsider the romance option. I truly believe that KoTOR2 will suffer if it is left out, and many, many fans will be disappointed.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

Adria, go back to the Bio Boards, we need no Temple of Carth here. :ph34r:

 

 

 

P.S. I am for romances, in fact, I would like more people to optionally 'romance' than there were in KotOR. But for Bob's sakes, if you put in as annoying and bitchy a character as Carth, at least give the male PC the option to kill him as well, as he was at least half likeable when playing as a female. I mean, look at some of the names you get to call him, and compare them to the dialogue between Han and Leia in the OT. Very similar; and it was rather touching that he thought he could come back to the Star Forge and turn you away from you path of darkness. I ALMOST hestitated at killing him. It was rather sad really. But since the dialogue other than the romance portion was identical for both sexes of PC, it made him unbearable when playing as a male, and then you didn't even have the option to KILL HIM?!! WTF!!!

 

And Adria, I by no means neccessarily want you to feel put off from this board, but should I hear some of the ghastly phrases that were uttered at the Bio Boards (Carthy Warthy comes to mind; UGH!), the flaming will follow shortly.

[Draxle]

Soft porn, huh? Are we playing the same game here? Or perhaps a 'fade-to-black' kiss is considered to be pornographic these days? I don't believe that requesting deeper and more involving romances requires anything that would be sexually explicit. Ironically enough, it would be a terrible sin if they were taken in that direction. Also, please note that I didn't say NPC interaction should be left to romance options only... I was merely stating that romances should be pushed to the way-side, as many (myself included) still feel that they are an important, perhaps even crucial addition to the game's enjoyability.

I was partially expressing a worry about some peoples fascination with pixellated people and partially poking fun at you.

 

Romances adds a nice touch to games, but unless the game is about the romance, it should take backseat (no pun intended) in deference of the main story. If "romances" are to be done well (which I didn't think they were in Kotor1), they require a lot of resources (scripting, writing, testing, voice acting etc.) which has a detrimental effects on those parts of the game that gets sacrificed for it.

 

Oh, and

Oh, I certainly agree that it should not be the 'focus' of the game... if that were the case, we might as well call it The Sims: Star Wars Edition. However, it seems that the general consesus is to lessen up the romance storylines to focus on "let's be friends" character building, which is something I'm opposed to.

 

And yes, I will admit... I'm a hopeless romantic, which is probably why I'm passionate about this sort of thing.

 

*shrugs*

 

 

EDIT: Well, maybe not 'hopeless.'

 

Also, to adress your comment over the 'fascination of pixelated people.' I think those gamers are more inclined to play a game such as Ninja Gaiden (saw a picture of the game's heroine ) with its outlandishly proportioned characters. I believe that, for most of us KOTOR-romance fans, the enjoyment is akin to that of romantic literature. It's thought provoking and inspiring, as opposed to something less high minded and more coarse.

[The Situationist]

This thread is an amazing exercise in culture shock, and a microcosm of the larger conflict inherent in these boards betwixt different groups of people with very different ideologies. Or something.

 

Bring back Bastila and give her bigger boobies, plz.

[Ivan the Terrible]

For the record....

 

Carth was impotent. That was the source of his frustration. All that crap about his family was just made up.

 

And Dustil was adopted.

[Gorth]

Also, to adress your comment over the 'fascination of pixelated people.' I think those gamers are more inclined to play a game such as Ninja Gaiden (saw a picture of the game's heroine  ) with its outlandishly proportioned characters.

I never saw that one. It's probably a console game (I don't own any consoles), but I did have a lot of fun playing around with Lara Croft.

 

If people had the same interests, there wouldn't really be a need for Kotor2, they could just have put what people wanted in Kotor1.

 

I'm as "guilty" as the next game player in finding game romances intriguing, but I prefer a more subtle approach, like the one in PS:T, where old romances from your previous lives were an integral part of the story.

[Child of Flame]

For the record....

 

Carth was impotent. That was the source of his frustration. All that crap about his family was just made up.

 

And Dustil was adopted.

You have obtained Demi God status in my eyes for the above quoted statement.

[Raven]

For the record....

 

Carth was impotent. That was the source of his frustration. All that crap about his family was just made up.

 

And Dustil was adopted.

You Are Godly!

 

 

heh, jk

 

anyway, i dont understand why people need romance in a video game, its just STRANGE. those people writing stories about it makes me wanna throw up, i mean come on! i play video games for fun, not something an over-emotional teenager would want. go watch a damn movie!