Meshugger Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 He have a point, when we are young we see things diferently. 15 years old think they are matured enough and know everthing but lack the life experiance to really be as mature as they thing they are. The old saying "youth is wasted on the young" have a lot of truth in it ... Saying that SW:KotOR NPCs acted on a realistic manner is only true to people that lack experiance on human behavior, none of the SW:KotOR NPCs have significant depth to be descrived as anything but a archetype, none was in any way realistic. Realistic? Nope. Entertaining? Yes. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
kefka Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 If romances are an option and not a requirement I don't see how anyone can complain. Personally, I hate romances, and Kotor didn't change my opinion. The Bastila romance was very poor indeed. No way did that enhance Kotor. It felt forced and artificial with you being dragged along without any real control. A few flirtatious lines of dialog are not what I consider a romance. I was amazed when Bastila pulls you aside to discuss your 'feelings'. WTF? I had no clue my responses would lead to that.
Meshugger Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 If romances are an option and not a requirement I don't see how anyone can complain. Personally, I hate romances, and Kotor didn't change my opinion. The Bastila romance was very poor indeed. No way did that enhance Kotor. It felt forced and artificial with you being dragged along without any real control. A few flirtatious lines of dialog are not what I consider a romance. I was amazed when Bastila pulls you aside to discuss your 'feelings'. WTF? I had no clue my responses would lead to that. I had the same experince when i played KotOR for the first time. - "Shut up and kiss me, you fool". It left you wondering what your character had just said and done <_< "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
kumquatq3 Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 WTF? I had no clue my responses would lead to that. So your upset a NPC act different than what you expected? yet, people complain their NPCs followed certain sterotypes to closely.....
Maria Caliban Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 Read. Then post. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
kefka Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 WTF? I had no clue my responses would lead to that. So your upset a NPC act different than what you expected? yet, people complain their NPCs followed certain sterotypes to closely..... That's the point - a 'romance' with Bastila was the last thing I expected based on the dialog options. Dumb flirting is not a romance. Bastila being a stoic Jedi makes that even more remarkable. It should take a lot more to break down her cold exterior.
kumquatq3 Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 I thought the thing with Bastila was she wasn't nearly as cold/stoic/up with the jedi code as she seemed to be. Hence the love and the falling to the darkside.
Vyperhand Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 no matter how many times I see this discussion, it still confuses me. Her dialog talks about her being too quick to get involved, to quick to feel and love, too quick to passion and anger. And yet people complain it's so fast as to be inconsistent?? And again, remember time-lapse... the conversations you have in the game are only the most significant and critical ones. Sadly in a CRPG you can't really have all the idle converstations and chatter during hyperspace travel etc. You can't have the quiet look when you just saved her from getting killed by a Teran'ta'tek (although that would be a huge addtion for believability alone, dialog based on you saving the "love interest" in battle and such) B) And to be more detailed, it would have to be more focal and take MORE away from people who opt not to pursue it when playing. Given the environment in which it was done, it was VERY well done.
kefka Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 I thought the thing with Bastila was she wasn't nearly as cold/stoic/up with the jedi code as she seemed to be. Hence the love and the falling to the darkside. Maybe, but she has no problem ending the 'romance' when it suits her. The PC had no choice, as usual. The darkside fall was a result of her capture by Malak - before that I never even imagined a DS Bastila.
kumquatq3 Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 I thought the thing with Bastila was she wasn't nearly as cold/stoic/up with the jedi code as she seemed to be. Hence the love and the falling to the darkside. Maybe, but she has no problem ending the 'romance' when it suits her. The PC had no choice, as usual. The darkside fall was a result of her capture by Malak - before that I never even imagined a DS Bastila. Well, everyother dialogue with her was about how hard it was to keep awayfrom the darkside. She her self admitted having trouble, so it's not out of left field.
kefka Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 Her dialog talks about her being too quick to get involved, to quick to feel and love, too quick to passion and anger. And yet people complain it's so fast as to be inconsistent?? Bastila's dialog is fine, it's what the PC says in reply that is dumb.
kefka Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 I thought the thing with Bastila was she wasn't nearly as cold/stoic/up with the jedi code as she seemed to be. Hence the love and the falling to the darkside. Maybe, but she has no problem ending the 'romance' when it suits her. The PC had no choice, as usual. The darkside fall was a result of her capture by Malak - before that I never even imagined a DS Bastila. Well, everyother dialogue with her was about how hard it was to keep awayfrom the darkside. She her self admitted having trouble, so it's not out of left field. yeah, that's true, but I think it was written that way to facilitate the romance. So it's quite ironic that Malak forces Bastila's turn and not the player.
Sarkile Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 Me too ... I wanted a explicit sex scene. That would be great! But a wookiee needs to be involved in it somehow.
Vyperhand Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 [Force Persuade] You want to change your preferences to not include hairy animals.
evil.E Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 The Bastila romance true fault is in its delivery and what goes on afterwards. A true romance would of been Revan being so in love with bastila that he risks forsaking the entire mission to rescue her. I doubt he'd be going about the next two planets as though nothing's happened. A true romance would also take a lot more than a few sarcastic juvenile pick up lines to really mean anything. If it's in KOTOR2... OK whatever... and??? Personally I don't understand why people were so sprung on the KOTOR romances. I always felt that romances in the middle of stories where the galaxies fate lyes in the balance were a bit far fetched. It's like your characters have no clue as to the gravity of what's at stake. "Hey baby millions of people are going to die if we don't stop Malak... but I think we have a few minutes for some bumpin' and grindin' behind those bushes over there."
Gorth Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 The Bastila romance was silly. She showed about as much warmth and passion as a tax statement. While being very young (juvenile) and inexperienced, might explain her behaviour. I would have preferred one of them twi'lek dancers any day. I'm not going to quote CA's answer to the romance thing again, but it does look like they are taking relationships a bit more seriously this time around. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Opus131 Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 Entertaining? Yes. You found that entartaining ?!? I pity you... Opus131
tripleRRR Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 In KotOR most of the time you had to talk to the NPCs to get them to open up, they did not, for the most part offer any interaction besides some small comments on the current situation. In Sith Lords I would like to see some more NPC initiated banters, having them comment, or asking you questions, requiring you to mediate a dispute in your party, etc. Would make things much more interesting in the long haul I think. TripleRRR Using a gamepad to control an FPS is like trying to fight evil through maple syrup.
Meshugger Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 Entertaining? Yes. You found that entartaining ?!? I pity you... Please don't. There are more important things in life "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Enoch Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 MCA has the right attitude. Honestly, I think that, besides some juvenile fascination (not to demean juvenile fascination-- I can be pretty juvenile myself in certain situations), the key allure of the romances is not that they're romantic, but that they represent the only in-depth character interaction in the vast majority of CRPGs. If more gamers had experienced NPC interactions of considerable depth but without the hokey romantic aspect, I think that fan support for romances per se would not be nearly as strong. As I said in the romance poll thread, I want character interactions that are about more than just the Quest for Electronic Nookie.
Vyperhand Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 The Bastila romance true fault is in its delivery and what goes on afterwards. A true romance would of been Revan being so in love with bastila that he risks forsaking the entire mission to rescue her. I doubt he'd be going about the next two planets as though nothing's happened. " Now that, I completely agree with. I had to role-play my character's "real" dialog on those worlds out in my head because the game didn't take it into account. that was VERY disappointing indeed. (not to mention my character would have been forced to be pried away from destroying the entire Leviathan with the force and his lightsabers) That could be greatly improved in KOTOR2, have dialogs and options adapt to the romance levels settings. And it still keeps them out of the way so they don't appear when inappropriate or for people that aren't pursuing romances.
Guest Michael Chu Posted May 21, 2004 Posted May 21, 2004 The fade to black scene in KotOR1 reminded me of Casablanca, where the viewer is sort of left to fill in the blanks for themselves, which I really didn't mind. I personally think the best such scene in a videogame was in Mafia.
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