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I hate to state the obvious here but lay on hands is a healing ability

 

why are you even talking about it

Err - because Unbending is a healing ability as well?

 

And even if it wasn't a self healing but provided DR (which it doesn't): there's zero difference between healing or taking reduced damage when it comes to sturdyness. Because the health mechanic of PoE is gone. It's all preventing health from dropping in the end now.

 

Tanking means to withstand a lot of damage output while binding forces. Whether this capability comes from self healing, avoiding to get hit or damage reduction doesn't matter at all.

 

So now we are having an arguement about healers?

 

Not about the best tank in the the game?

 

Are we on the same planet here?

 

I live on planet earth. Are you on earth?

And please leave out this "which planet" nonsense when discussing stuff with people who try to bring up reasonable arguments. You don't even know what stacks and what not but make strong statements about classes and their defensive capabilities while dismissing others as lunatics.

 

A bit more self-effacement would suit you much better in situations where you are just guessing the actual game mechanics.

Because you don't want to sound like firkraag888 and master guardian all the time. Every now and then is enough teasers. ;)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I hate to state the obvious here but lay on hands is a healing ability

 

why are you even talking about it

Err - because Unbending is a healing ability as well?

 

And even if it wasn't a self healing but provided DR (which it doesn't): there's zero difference between healing or taking reduced damage when it comes to sturdyness. Because the health mechanic of PoE is gone. It's all preventing health from dropping in the end now.

 

Tanking means to withstand a lot of damage output while binding forces. Whether this capability comes from self healing, avoiding to get hit or damage reduction doesn't matter at all.

 

So now we are having an arguement about healers?

 

Not about the best tank in the the game?

 

Are we on the same planet here?

 

I live on planet earth. Are you on earth?

And please leave out this "which planet" nonsense when discussing stuff with people who try to bring up reasonable arguments. You don't even know what stacks and what not but make strong statements about classes and their defensive capabilities while dismissing others as lunatics.

 

A bit more self-effacement would suit you much better in situations where you are just guessing the actual game mechanics.

Because you don't want to sound like firkraag888 and master guardian all the time. Every now and then is enough teasers. ;)

Oh boy, master guardian. Just when I was starting to forget... :(

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Vigourus Defense + Mirror Images does not fully work. You only get one of the bonuses to deflection

Sounds like a bug since bonuses are different.

If the + all stacks with any of the specific + defenses it would be an oversight. They are not supposed to stack. Everything else that's active and has an overlap in part of its effect suppresses that part.

 

 

Do you have a source of this information? I'm asking because those buffs would stack under PoE1's rules.

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Vancian =/= per rest.

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Vigourus Defense + Mirror Images does not fully work. You only get one of the bonuses to deflection

Sounds like a bug since bonuses are different.
If the + all stacks with any of the specific + defenses it would be an oversight. They are not supposed to stack. Everything else that's active and has an overlap in part of its effect suppresses that part.

Do you have a source of this information? I'm asking because those buffs would stack under PoE1's rules.
Active effects that buff the same stat, ie deflection, do not stack.

 

Edit: but the stats that don't overlap, such as will defense from VD, are no problem.

Edited by arkane83
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Correct. The stacking rules are different in Deadfire. Also Arcane Veil is not a talent anymore but an active spell like others. It used to stack with everything in PoE but doesn't in Deadfire.

 

Vigorous Defense + Arcane Veil don't stack. The deflection bonus of VD will get supressed by AV. You'll get +20 to fortitude, will and reflex and +50 to defection. After Arcane Veil runs out you'll still have +20 deflection from Vigorous Defense. Of course VD is still an awesome ability - especially with the upgrade. It's especially good (even awesome) if your build without VD isn't that defensive.

 

There are two effects that do stack though. If I remember correctly it's one of the Llengrath spells and Circle of Defense because those two buff defenses in another way (code-wise) so they are not considered to buff the same things. They stack pretty much with everything. Or they did - maybe it got changed. Don't know if this is intended or not, but is surely is confusing and not consistent.

 

However, passive defense buffs and those from items stack with everything while actives usually don't. Also passive defense bonuses usually don't have durations and are active all the time. Thus an Arcane Knight can achieve higher defenses overall than a Battlemage - just because Vigorous Defense doesn't stack with most active stuff.

 

By the way Mirrored Image will not get removed after two or three hits: it looses 5 deflection when you get hit and starts at 30. You need to get hit 6 times for it to go entirely.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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  • 4 weeks later...

Folks

 

Paladins have been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed to the extent that the class can no longer be recognized for what it should be.

 

Paladins should be a fully standalone martial class with extraordinary defensive capabilities of divine origin. That was why backers specifically demanded the class during the PoE 1 Kickstarter.

 

What we see now is a watered down wannabe priest..

 

  • Their base deflection was nerfed beyond recognition. 
  • You cant touch sacred immolation unless you want to commit suicide
  • Their exhortation have such a shortened base duration that there is no point using them
  • Players really are better off picking a fighter 

 

This is what happens when nerfing is the primary mechanism used to balance a game. Classes get completely hollowed out. I have no idea whose lot at Obsidian it is to carry out this kind of task, but the results are poor indeed.

 

 

On  another note, We backers also have to accept blame for some of these undesired outcomes. There are folks in this community who constantly show up to whine whenever a class features an ability that actually works. For them the game must always be a grind. No room for smart character design, or synergy between abilities in a party. Anything that works is overpowered. It is terrible. 

 

As a result these selfish people ruin the game for everyone. The funny thing is when you call these people out on their nonsense, you discover they are not even playing the game...their noise is coming from paper calculations of what they think is happening in the game.

 

The only solution as I see it is for the devs to reduce their reliance on nerfing as a means of balancing the game. The focus should be more on tuning encounters to meet the desired level of challenge

what he said

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