Boeroer 15,238 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) I hate to state the obvious here but lay on hands is a healing ability why are you even talking about it Err - because Unbending is a healing ability as well? And even if it wasn't a self healing but provided DR (which it doesn't): there's zero difference between healing or taking reduced damage when it comes to sturdyness. Because the health mechanic of PoE is gone. It's all preventing health from dropping in the end now. Tanking means to withstand a lot of damage output while binding forces. Whether this capability comes from self healing, avoiding to get hit or damage reduction doesn't matter at all. So now we are having an arguement about healers? Not about the best tank in the the game? Are we on the same planet here? I live on planet earth. Are you on earth? And please leave out this "which planet" nonsense when discussing stuff with people who try to bring up reasonable arguments. You don't even know what stacks and what not but make strong statements about classes and their defensive capabilities while dismissing others as lunatics. A bit more self-effacement would suit you much better in situations where you are just guessing the actual game mechanics. Because you don't want to sound like firkraag888 and master guardian all the time. Every now and then is enough teasers. Edited July 6, 2018 by Boeroer 4 Quote Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to post Share on other sites
anathanielh 357 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I hate to state the obvious here but lay on hands is a healing ability why are you even talking about it Err - because Unbending is a healing ability as well? And even if it wasn't a self healing but provided DR (which it doesn't): there's zero difference between healing or taking reduced damage when it comes to sturdyness. Because the health mechanic of PoE is gone. It's all preventing health from dropping in the end now. Tanking means to withstand a lot of damage output while binding forces. Whether this capability comes from self healing, avoiding to get hit or damage reduction doesn't matter at all. So now we are having an arguement about healers? Not about the best tank in the the game? Are we on the same planet here? I live on planet earth. Are you on earth? And please leave out this "which planet" nonsense when discussing stuff with people who try to bring up reasonable arguments. You don't even know what stacks and what not but make strong statements about classes and their defensive capabilities while dismissing others as lunatics. A bit more self-effacement would suit you much better in situations where you are just guessing the actual game mechanics. Because you don't want to sound like firkraag888 and master guardian all the time. Every now and then is enough teasers. Oh boy, master guardian. Just when I was starting to forget... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dunehunter 1,173 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Unbending is not worth its cost after the nerf. #balanceGO Not when Unbending is a heal on tick that get triggered any time u get hit, it stacks with itself btw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
no1fanboy 79 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 so does arcane veil stack with vigorous defense? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hilfazer 270 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Vigourus Defense + Mirror Images does not fully work. You only get one of the bonuses to deflection Sounds like a bug since bonuses are different. If the + all stacks with any of the specific + defenses it would be an oversight. They are not supposed to stack. Everything else that's active and has an overlap in part of its effect suppresses that part. Do you have a source of this information? I'm asking because those buffs would stack under PoE1's rules. 1 Quote Vancian =/= per rest. Link to post Share on other sites
no1fanboy 79 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 excactly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arkane83 55 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) Vigourus Defense + Mirror Images does not fully work. You only get one of the bonuses to deflectionSounds like a bug since bonuses are different.If the + all stacks with any of the specific + defenses it would be an oversight. They are not supposed to stack. Everything else that's active and has an overlap in part of its effect suppresses that part. Do you have a source of this information? I'm asking because those buffs would stack under PoE1's rules.Active effects that buff the same stat, ie deflection, do not stack. Edit: but the stats that don't overlap, such as will defense from VD, are no problem. Edited July 7, 2018 by arkane83 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boeroer 15,238 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) Correct. The stacking rules are different in Deadfire. Also Arcane Veil is not a talent anymore but an active spell like others. It used to stack with everything in PoE but doesn't in Deadfire. Vigorous Defense + Arcane Veil don't stack. The deflection bonus of VD will get supressed by AV. You'll get +20 to fortitude, will and reflex and +50 to defection. After Arcane Veil runs out you'll still have +20 deflection from Vigorous Defense. Of course VD is still an awesome ability - especially with the upgrade. It's especially good (even awesome) if your build without VD isn't that defensive. There are two effects that do stack though. If I remember correctly it's one of the Llengrath spells and Circle of Defense because those two buff defenses in another way (code-wise) so they are not considered to buff the same things. They stack pretty much with everything. Or they did - maybe it got changed. Don't know if this is intended or not, but is surely is confusing and not consistent. However, passive defense buffs and those from items stack with everything while actives usually don't. Also passive defense bonuses usually don't have durations and are active all the time. Thus an Arcane Knight can achieve higher defenses overall than a Battlemage - just because Vigorous Defense doesn't stack with most active stuff. By the way Mirrored Image will not get removed after two or three hits: it looses 5 deflection when you get hit and starts at 30. You need to get hit 6 times for it to go entirely. Edited July 7, 2018 by Boeroer 2 Quote Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to post Share on other sites
Teclis23 89 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Folks Paladins have been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed to the extent that the class can no longer be recognized for what it should be. Paladins should be a fully standalone martial class with extraordinary defensive capabilities of divine origin. That was why backers specifically demanded the class during the PoE 1 Kickstarter. What we see now is a watered down wannabe priest.. Their base deflection was nerfed beyond recognition. You cant touch sacred immolation unless you want to commit suicide Their exhortation have such a shortened base duration that there is no point using them Players really are better off picking a fighter This is what happens when nerfing is the primary mechanism used to balance a game. Classes get completely hollowed out. I have no idea whose lot at Obsidian it is to carry out this kind of task, but the results are poor indeed. On another note, We backers also have to accept blame for some of these undesired outcomes. There are folks in this community who constantly show up to whine whenever a class features an ability that actually works. For them the game must always be a grind. No room for smart character design, or synergy between abilities in a party. Anything that works is overpowered. It is terrible. As a result these selfish people ruin the game for everyone. The funny thing is when you call these people out on their nonsense, you discover they are not even playing the game...their noise is coming from paper calculations of what they think is happening in the game. The only solution as I see it is for the devs to reduce their reliance on nerfing as a means of balancing the game. The focus should be more on tuning encounters to meet the desired level of challenge what he said Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boeroer 15,238 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi! New account again? Quote Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to post Share on other sites
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