[CLASS BUILD & MECHANICS 101] Let's learn with Umezawa! (Streetfighter/Wael)

[Killyox]

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

[thelee]

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

[Boeroer]

Wait a sec... just had a thought: Can one distract themselves with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights?

[thelee]

Wait a sec... just had a thought: Can one distract themselves with Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights?

 

arkemyr's dazzling lights is a "dazed" effect, no?

[thelee]

what would be the best is if there existed some AoE disorienting effect, because then you could just equip that that gives you perception resistance and it would be far more fool-proof than powder burns, sparkcrackers, or trying to get flanked/<50% health.

 

but as far as I can tell, disorienting is extremely rare to do; mule kick maybe? you're largely left with distracted or blinded (which can be resisted down to disoriented, but that's still +50% recovery time penalty so it's not ideal).

[Boeroer]

You could do Berseker/Streetfighter with Smoke Cloud maybe? IIRC I terrfied myself with Spirit Tornado on a Berseker (or was it the Whitewitch Mask?) - so maybe Smoke Cloud when confused would hit you as well?

 

P.S: Why do you want to get disoriented and then reduce it to distracted? Why not going for distracted directly?

Edited November 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[thelee]

You could do Berseker/Streetfighter with Smoke Cloud maybe? IIRC I terrfied myself with Spirit Tornado on a Berseker (or was it the Whitewitch Mask?) - so maybe Smoke Cloud when confused would hit you as well?

 

P.S: Why do you want to get disoriented and then reduce it to distracted? Why not going for distracted directly?

 

berserker + smoke cloud is an interesting idea. i might have to test rolling one soon because that might be an easy way to trigger it (at the cost of some guile).

 

I was talking about disoriented -> distracted because i thought i had accounted for every possible distracted effect  my own hubris, since i clearly didn't think about confusion + party-friendly distraction effects.

Edited November 8, 2018 by thelee

[Boeroer]

I just did a quick test and sadly you can't distract yourself with Smoke Cloud. I never noticed it's friendly fire though. So another party member can easily distract you with it.

 

But I guess the friendly-fire aspect is what prevents it from hitting yourself when confused:

 

If an ability if foe only the code doesn't need to exclude the casting character exclusively because he's friendly. If you get confused that may change and and you can hit yourself.

 

If an ability has frendly fire it will have to exclude the caster specifically - and that wil not change when confused I guess.

 

So we need to search for effects which usually are foe-only and disorient or distract and a way to get confused. Hm, can a Wizard confuse himself and then distract...? 

[Haplok]

If a Witch can be considered, Berserker confused + Phantom Foes?

 

Edit: Sorry, that's not a Streetfighter then.

Well, but would be nice to have such a Witch in the party - when not going solo.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

I can't figure out a convenient way (only some that are bit fiddly, see below). Maybe I miss something?

 

Wizard/Streetfighter:

Wizard's Confusion and Frightening spells can't hit the caster (if not confused before).

But you can be a Pale Elf, cast Bulwark, get a resistance against PER afflictions and walk in your own Chillfog disoriented while the rest is blinded.

But that resistance shoukld not come from Defiant Apparel because it only gives you a esistance as long as you are not flanked. The first pulse will disorient you (hat works) but also flank you (hat stops working) and the next pulse will blind you. You'll keep your "Heating Up" status, but meh... Ring of Mule's Wit works! As does the Saint's War Armor (Like a Steel Trap). I mean it grants you a big advantage over the enemies in the fog... You get -50% recovery time (and also the +50% from disoriented and -5 PER), you get +50% Sneak Attack dmg while the enemies get +100% recovery and can't hit you as well with -15 reduced ACC and so on.

This new Dragon Grimoire (the unique buff gives you two +15% lashes on weapon attacks) + Heating Up should make a great melee Spellblade character who walks in his own Chillfog. Use Alacrity to speed you up more. THe lashes should work really well with the higher Sneak Attack and the not-so-sluggish attack speed (compared to your enemies).  

 

Berserker/Streetfighter:

Smoke Cloud/Smoke Bomb can't hit the caster no matter what. You can't engage yourself with Persistent Distraction when confused. You cant hit yourself with Sap. 

 

Cipher/Streetfighter:

Tenuous Grasp/Whisper of Treason and other INT affliction spells can only be targeted on foes. Phantom Foes can only be targeted on a foe and is foe only.

 

Chanter/Streetfighter:

Whisps can be upgraded to cause Distracted on hit. So from PL 5 on you could summon Whisps that attack you, giving you little damage (laughable with very low Shock PEN) but keep you Distracted/Flanked all the time. Heh. I think I also read that in some forum build lately. Which one was it again? Could wear Deltro's Helm in order to profit from the shock damage a bit...

 

Is there more? THere are not that many disorienting attacks in Dedafire, are there?

Edited November 9, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

addendum: Wow... A Wizard/Streetfighter in his own Chillfog with Resistance to Perception AFF, Infuse wVE, Alacrity, Citzal's Spirit Lance, Zandethu's Draconic Fury and Deathblows is... awesome.  

[Haplok]

Whisps can be upgraded to cause Distracted on hit. So from PL 5 on you could summon Whisps that attack you, giving you little damage (laughable with very low Shock PEN) but keep you Distracted/Flanked all the time. Heh. I think I also read that in some forum build lately. Which one was it again? Could wear Deltro's Helm in order to profit from the shock damage a bit...

 

I believe Metaturtle used the Wisps in his Sweeper Agent (Troubadour/Streetfighter) build...

[Boeroer]

Yes, that's the one.

[thelee]

addendum: Wow... A Wizard/Streetfighter in his own Chillfog with Resistance to Perception AFF, Infuse wVE, Alacrity, Citzal's Spirit Lance, Zandethu's Draconic Fury and Deathblows is... awesome.

 

sounds like fun. would definitely have to script a lot of that self-buffing away though or else it could get real tedious real fast.

 

FWIW my blackjacket+streetfighter build basically put a blunderbuss in each of 4 weapon slots and used quick switch to switch to an un-fired blunderbuss as necessary to trigger powder burns, with zero delay. not as much peak damage as the zealot here or i'm sure the spellblade there, but frequently found it to be a "good enough" way to sustain heating up uptime for a long time (and just relied on heavy armor for survivability); worked well with mob stance to boot. streetfighter is just a fun subclass that rewards you for metagaming even just a little bit.

Edited November 9, 2018 by thelee

[Killyox]

 

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

 

34% for 55% armor just for PC vs 38% for 55% armor for everyone. IF soloi then sure, but with an entire party? I think the latter is preferable. What do you think?

 

Also looking forward to more guides, like Cipher/x Druid/x etc. Great work.

[thelee]

 

 

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

 

34% for 55% armor just for PC vs 38% for 55% armor for everyone. IF soloi then sure, but with an entire party? I think the latter is preferable. What do you think?

 

Also looking forward to more guides, like Cipher/x Druid/x etc. Great work.

 

 

Possibly. It really depends on the rest of your party. I tend to value +stride bonuses significantly (Epsilon in current revision of guide is recommended over Cosmo Pirate/Abraham) because of the huge survivability boost they can give your squishies.

 

One thing to be aware of is the difference between nalvi and epsilon's armor recovery when it comes to using miscreant's leather. when you have nalvi equipped the advantage is so slight over just wearing cloth that you might be rather using actual cloth with other bonuses, e.g. vatnir's harbinger robes. (that would make this build even more glass cannon-y)

[Killyox]

 

 

 

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

 

34% for 55% armor just for PC vs 38% for 55% armor for everyone. IF soloi then sure, but with an entire party? I think the latter is preferable. What do you think?

 

Also looking forward to more guides, like Cipher/x Druid/x etc. Great work.

 

 

Possibly. It really depends on the rest of your party. I tend to value +stride bonuses significantly (Epsilon in current revision of guide is recommended over Cosmo Pirate/Abraham) because of the huge survivability boost they can give your squishies.

 

One thing to be aware of is the difference between nalvi and epsilon's armor recovery when it comes to using miscreant's leather. when you have nalvi equipped the advantage is so slight over just wearing cloth that you might be rather using actual cloth with other bonuses, e.g. vatnir's harbinger robes. (that would make this build even more glass cannon-y)

 

I am curious, do you play with leather/cloth armors?

 

I mostly equip party with plate or some such but there is one really good leather with hit to grazes conversion. My Chanter has lots of crit to hit hit to graze graze to miss, so he's actually hard to take down for many enemies.

[thelee]

 

 

 

 

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

 

34% for 55% armor just for PC vs 38% for 55% armor for everyone. IF soloi then sure, but with an entire party? I think the latter is preferable. What do you think?

 

Also looking forward to more guides, like Cipher/x Druid/x etc. Great work.

 

 

Possibly. It really depends on the rest of your party. I tend to value +stride bonuses significantly (Epsilon in current revision of guide is recommended over Cosmo Pirate/Abraham) because of the huge survivability boost they can give your squishies.

 

One thing to be aware of is the difference between nalvi and epsilon's armor recovery when it comes to using miscreant's leather. when you have nalvi equipped the advantage is so slight over just wearing cloth that you might be rather using actual cloth with other bonuses, e.g. vatnir's harbinger robes. (that would make this build even more glass cannon-y)

 

I am curious, do you play with leather/cloth armors?

 

I mostly equip party with plate or some such but there is one really good leather with hit to grazes conversion. My Chanter has lots of crit to hit hit to graze graze to miss, so he's actually hard to take down for many enemies.

 

 

Absolutely. In most parties I've rolled, light/cloth makes up the majority of my party. I love going fast in combat.

[Killyox]

 

 

 

 

 

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

 

34% for 55% armor just for PC vs 38% for 55% armor for everyone. IF soloi then sure, but with an entire party? I think the latter is preferable. What do you think?

 

Also looking forward to more guides, like Cipher/x Druid/x etc. Great work.

 

 

Possibly. It really depends on the rest of your party. I tend to value +stride bonuses significantly (Epsilon in current revision of guide is recommended over Cosmo Pirate/Abraham) because of the huge survivability boost they can give your squishies.

 

One thing to be aware of is the difference between nalvi and epsilon's armor recovery when it comes to using miscreant's leather. when you have nalvi equipped the advantage is so slight over just wearing cloth that you might be rather using actual cloth with other bonuses, e.g. vatnir's harbinger robes. (that would make this build even more glass cannon-y)

 

I am curious, do you play with leather/cloth armors?

 

I mostly equip party with plate or some such but there is one really good leather with hit to grazes conversion. My Chanter has lots of crit to hit hit to graze graze to miss, so he's actually hard to take down for many enemies.

 

 

Absolutely. In most parties I've rolled, light/cloth makes up the majority of my party. I love going fast in combat.

 

 

How do you survive in POTD with just cloth party?

[thelee]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why don't you use the pet with PARTY EFFECT that reduces armor recovery instead of Cosmo?

 

Nalvi - +1 resolve, party wide reduction of recovery penalty for armors

 

when it comes to pets, the party-wide effect is always weaker than the mainchar-only effect. in this case, nalvi gives you a much smaller improvement to armor recovery than epsilon or pirate cosmo (albeit it gives it to everyone). you can lean that way if you want, but this class is such a glass cannon you really want to be selfish with the armor recovery reduction.

 

also, in more recent versions of the game (due to consumables nerf), we don't actually want too much extra resolve because it hurts our ability to distract ourself (either with powder burns or sparkcrackers). if you're not going that route, then maybe the +1 resolve is decent.

 

34% for 55% armor just for PC vs 38% for 55% armor for everyone. IF soloi then sure, but with an entire party? I think the latter is preferable. What do you think?

 

Also looking forward to more guides, like Cipher/x Druid/x etc. Great work.

 

 

Possibly. It really depends on the rest of your party. I tend to value +stride bonuses significantly (Epsilon in current revision of guide is recommended over Cosmo Pirate/Abraham) because of the huge survivability boost they can give your squishies.

 

One thing to be aware of is the difference between nalvi and epsilon's armor recovery when it comes to using miscreant's leather. when you have nalvi equipped the advantage is so slight over just wearing cloth that you might be rather using actual cloth with other bonuses, e.g. vatnir's harbinger robes. (that would make this build even more glass cannon-y)

 

I am curious, do you play with leather/cloth armors?

 

I mostly equip party with plate or some such but there is one really good leather with hit to grazes conversion. My Chanter has lots of crit to hit hit to graze graze to miss, so he's actually hard to take down for many enemies.

 

 

Absolutely. In most parties I've rolled, light/cloth makes up the majority of my party. I love going fast in combat.

 

 

How do you survive in POTD with just cloth party?

 

 

Engagement. Don't let melee enemies get close. Take out ranged enemies fast. (This is why I like stride bonuses)

[Arctur]

thelee@

 

Interesting build; and thx for your awesome guide at gamefaqs. Insightfull. Great work.

[dgray62]

thelee, I am trying your build and it is a lot of fun. I just got Pukestabber, and having never before used this weapon, I was wondering if you upgraded it with Debauchery or Iron Stomach. I presume that the former is the case, but I just wanted to check. I certainly do not want to double over and vomit in the midst of battle.

[thelee]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:18 AM, dgray62 said:

thelee, I am trying your build and it is a lot of fun. I just got Pukestabber, and having never before used this weapon, I was wondering if you upgraded it with Debauchery or Iron Stomach. I presume that the former is the case, but I just wanted to check. I certainly do not want to double over and vomit in the midst of battle.

definitely debauchery. the hangover effects are ignorable if either use drunkard's regret, or just rest multiple times in one sitting with some non-alcoholic stuff.

(this does not work so well in rymrgand or eothas's challenge, at which point iron stomach might be worth it)

Edited July 6, 2020 by thelee

[dgray62]

Thanks for the advice, thelee. I upgraded it accordingly, and am now working my way through Poko Kohara to get Marux Amanth.

[dgray62]

Thelee, I had a follow up question on this build. Playing it with a melee weapon in one hand (Pukestabber) and a hand mortar in the other worked very well. I'd open up with an attack at range to get distracted and flanked from the blunderbuss modal, then attack with Pukestabber at melee range, firing off the blunderbuss again when necessary to heat up again. However, when I got Marux Amanth and dual wielded it Pukestabber, the game became much more troublesome. This was mainly because I keep trying to distract myself with sparkcrackers to heat up, but almost always miss myself. Should I try using sparkcrackers before the flanked/distracted state wears off, to make myself easier to hit?