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The french translation was poorly made

french translation bad

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#61
Boeroer

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In my opinion it would be best if Obsidian released the game without localisation but provide a good infrastructure for fan-made translations (modding). Usually those are better - and they cost nothing. Bonus claps if they'd provide some kind of compensation.

 
That can't be the way. You can't outsource that kind of stuff to the players. Sooner or later the game companies would assume that as normal. Do you want to wait for every new games fan translation, if it ever gets finished. Once the professional made translations were better than the fan stuff. Somehow the standards for this have to raise again.

I don't expect everything to sound like ****ing Goethe, but every film, game or whatever should be translated in a manner that fits the level of the original text. And the crap we got for PoE1+2 is just highly unworthy of the original.


Well it can't be worse than the really bad localisation Deadfire got delivered with. And imagine: somebody got actually paid for that nonsense.

Seriously: even without any context given I could do a better job of translating this game into German. I'm no professional by any means and have only translated some YouTube subtitles for several channels I like in a community efford - but I couldn't do worse than this. I simply couldn't.

Luckily I personally don't care because I only play games in their native language (as long as I can understand it of course) - but in genereal this is a real shame. Better to not deliver a game with such an embarrassing localisation but instead spend the money on good modding infrastructure so that there's a least a chance that there will be a good translation someday.

Edited by Boeroer, 20 June 2018 - 12:15 AM.

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#62
xzar_monty

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It's really embarrassing when a product is brought into the market in such a state that a lot of people can legitimately claim "I could do better than this!" -- and they are right.



#63
Occursus

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I won’t start translating all the game, but just for the term Deadfire Archipelago, already I feel like there has been a lost opportunity to translate it in French as « l’Archipel des Feux Endormis », or in English it would quite literally means Sleeping Fires.

 

If I recall correctly, Josh Sawyer even stated somewhere that it was the meaning they were going for with Deadfire, because of the volcanic activities of the region.

 

Seriously, I feel like they were handed the project and they did not ask any question or anything to Obsidian to try and specify the meaning behind specific terms, reading all of you about it.
 

If anything, if I was Obsidian, I would ask some of my money back, because the work done seems to be very poorly done, not even close to be professional in nature :S



#64
Lord_Mord

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I won’t start translating all the game, but just for the term Deadfire Archipelago, already I feel like there has been a lost opportunity to translate it in French as « l’Archipel des Feux Endormis », or in English it would quite literally means Sleeping Fires.

 

I heard in France you try to avoid the english language as much as possible. I wonder how you did it in the Pirates of the Carribean movies. In Germany most of the terms (Like "Black Pearl" for example) were kept in english language, with a few exceptions. How's it in France?



#65
Occursus

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I won’t start translating all the game, but just for the term Deadfire Archipelago, already I feel like there has been a lost opportunity to translate it in French as « l’Archipel des Feux Endormis », or in English it would quite literally means Sleeping Fires.

 

I heard in France you try to avoid the english language as much as possible. I wonder how you did it in the Pirates of the Carribean movies. In Germany most of the terms (Like "Black Pearl" for example) were kept in english language, with a few exceptions. How's it in France?

 

 

Disclaimer : I am not from France, but from Canada, Québec, a French speaking province.
 

But as a rule of thumb, here, though I believe it is similar in France where they are somewhat more liberal on the question, titles from books and movies are translated, but trademarks and such are not.

 

So, for instance, Pirates of the Caribbean, as a movie, is translated « Pirates des Caraïbes » everywhere. But everything inside the book or movie will be translated unless specified otherwise that it was meant to be in a foreign language or something. So, « Black Pearl » becomes « La Perle Noire », but every Spanish vessels in some of the movies are not translated ; the same for every bit of dialogues in spanish.
 

But, in the case of Wallmart ; it is a trademark and such is not translated anywhere it is used. I am curious by what it would be translated though, because it is quite generic when taken literally. I guess one might want to translate it by « Le centre commercial Mur à Mur » or « Mur à Mur » for short, but that is just me :p

Fun fact : Videogames are not restricted by law in Québec to have their names translated. I guess it is because of the fact it is considered a trademark, here, but do not just take my word for it, I have not done any Law School. So, Pillars of Eternity stays Pillars of Eternity and is not translated into « Les Piliers de l’Éternité », which sound quite nice actually.


 

Oh ! By the way, for the original poster thinking about the poetic ring to some of the names, I thought about it : The Leaden Key could be translated in French by « La Clef Saturné », which would be exactly Leaden Key but with the added bonus to refer to the old discipline of alchemy during the Middle Ages, higher mysteries and secrets, etc.
 

It would go quite nicely with the organization based around old secrets and will not sound as flat or weird as « La Clef en Plomb » or « La Clef de Plomb ».
 

Though, perhaps something referring to Saturn, an actual planet from our own solar system, might not be the best, depending on what you are aiming for with your translation ^^"


Edited by Occursus, 20 June 2018 - 06:17 AM.

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#66
ArnoldRimmer

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Maybe a "french" canadian did the translation?



#67
gloomseeker

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The "Clé saturnée" is actually a pretty good idea. Nice find.  :yes:

 

 

 

I won’t start translating all the game, but just for the term Deadfire Archipelago, already I feel like there has been a lost opportunity to translate it in French as « l’Archipel des Feux Endormis », or in English it would quite literally means Sleeping Fires.

 

I heard in France you try to avoid the english language as much as possible. I wonder how you did it in the Pirates of the Carribean movies. In Germany most of the terms (Like "Black Pearl" for example) were kept in english language, with a few exceptions. How's it in France?

 

 

Dungeons & Dragons used to be Donjons & Dragons when I was a kid but these days it's just Dungeons & Dragons. 

 

It costs less not to translate these terms as they are trademarks. 

 

It's my understanding things are not exactly the same in Canada. 



#68
Abel

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I won’t start translating all the game, but just for the term Deadfire Archipelago, already I feel like there has been a lost opportunity to translate it in French as « l’Archipel des Feux Endormis », or in English it would quite literally means Sleeping Fires.

 

I heard in France you try to avoid the english language as much as possible. I wonder how you did it in the Pirates of the Carribean movies. In Germany most of the terms (Like "Black Pearl" for example) were kept in english language, with a few exceptions. How's it in France?

 

 

I seem to vaguely remember "Black Pearl" was kept in english in France. Which i think is actually a good thing. Unless the story took place in France and it would just seem wrong.


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#69
Xaratas

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Oh man. Such … 4 pages.

I am not even sure what i should say to you. But as one of the curators of the German translation fix I feel like I have to.

Btw. hello Lord Mord.

 

So we have some situation, in which the translation companies did excel translation again. And I can just see from the stringtables that the short texts are absolute hell. Without the actual game you have no chance to get them correct. Look at this: https://github.com/X...42c18127847ef50

„Scaling“, just one word. No context, so „Entschuppen“ was a possible pick. If the translator never actually played the game (which I think they hadn't, as there was no „game“ at the time, not even a developer alpha to play with) he had no clue that the more correct translation is „skalierend“.

Or the nice „Unlocked!“. That one carried over from PoE 1. You unlock doors and chests and and it's totally not „Freigeschaltet!“, even if that makes some sense in a game environment. It's „Aufgeschlossen!“

Then, mind the excel tables. Lines which go together, like ability names and descriptions are not necessarily next to each other. Some spells are even not ready when you get the texts (there were plenty of them which had plain values while developing which got later replaced by tokens to have some scaling effects).

And then the keywords. For this mod https://www.nexusmod...ds/32?tab=posts I had to juggle with around 50 abilities to get the keywords in (and change words which were no longer true because of patches with nerfs). Without a game to see this all in action and combination it's totally not easy.

What's way more game breaking were the broken replacement tags of all kind. That is stuff which a qa tester should have found.

For myself the experience with the long texts in German is quite well. There are a few typos here and there, and a few minor things. But I haven't found apples auto-correct cluster**** yet. (In PoE 1 there were plenty of it.)

 

So yes, you can be annoyed but bear in mind that 1 million words in Excelformat is not cool.

On the other side, you can report the problems here in the forum. German has a fix ready, Italian has a fix ready, thanks to Kilay, Russian has a mod shortly. And this time Cdiaz is working to make sure the translators get the pointer to this forum and include all the found stuff to enhance future patches.


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#70
4ward

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when Obsidian announced that the localisations wouldn't be voiced, that pretty much killed any interest for me. I'm not going to play a game listening to English dialogue and reading German text. Also, i believe that only if the lines are voiced will the effort be made for the text to make sense since an actor has to make sense when he speaks the lines. Localised versions of today are no selling point to me, i don't bother trying them out, just glad i had english back in school.



#71
Lord_Mord

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So yes, you can be annoyed but bear in mind that 1 million words in Excelformat is not cool.

On the other side, you can report the problems here in the forum. German has a fix ready, Italian has a fix ready, thanks to Kilay, Russian has a mod shortly. And this time Cdiaz is working to make sure the translators get the pointer to this forum and include all the found stuff to enhance future patches.

I don't want to attack the translators or something. But that whole workflow is just plain bull**** and it's obvious that the translation company as a whole didn't really care. I think the problem lies at Obsidian, be it because of budget problems or whatever. The translation company is crap, the whole workflow is crap.

Mods can't replace a well made translation. You can just fix the worst things, that is not the same as a thought out, lovingly crafted translation. Besides, lots of people will never even download it. I want, and maybe I'm just very naive and idealistic here, that the kids these days get a game that is at least as much a good read as the games in our days, maybe even better. In the best case it would be just like reading a book. Deadfire came very close to a good book. Not Dostojewski, but better than Ayn Rand (Maybe I just don't like Ayn Rand, but you get the point. It's definitely better than Rowling.). In German it's just gibberish. And with the mod it's corrected gibberish. You can read it, it makes sense, some phrases sound more natural but it still does not feel like something.


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#72
xzar_monty

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Oh man. Such … 4 pages.

I am not even sure what i should say to you. But as one of the curators of the German translation fix I feel like I have to.

Btw. hello Lord Mord.

 

So yes, you can be annoyed but bear in mind that 1 million words in Excelformat is not cool.

On the other side, you can report the problems here in the forum. German has a fix ready, Italian has a fix ready, thanks to Kilay, Russian has a mod shortly. And this time Cdiaz is working to make sure the translators get the pointer to this forum and include all the found stuff to enhance future patches.

 

Now, if this word count (1 million words) is anywhere near accurate, that alone pretty much explains why the translation is rubbish. A million words is approximately ten regular-sized novels (350 to 450 pages, depending on the layout). If a very good translator worked at it full time, it would take approximately two years to come up with a good translation for all of it.

 

So, what I think has happened is that either,

1) a lot of people have worked on the translations independently of each other with no one to co-ordinate their efforts and make sure everything is consistent,

or,

2) a small number of people (perhaps just one) has run everything through google translate and pretty much left it at that, with some minor revisions.

 

The enormity of the work is such that it seems more obvious than ever that Obsidian have no idea what they're doing. IF that 1 million words is correct.



#73
Aurelio

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I counted the words for the current german translation mod without DLCs.

 

1.100.656 words...

 

Please also keep in mind that game translations also have some limitations which books do not have. E.g. word length.

 

If you have a button labled "Sell" and you have only 4 letters you need to abbreviate.

 

Or if you want have words linked to the cyclopedia like the affliction types they need to be consistent. But this can cause grammar errors. At least in german.

Stuff that works with the english language might not work in other languages.

 

E. g.:

 

This was a critial hit.

He scored a critial hit.

 

Dies war ein kritischer Treffer.

Er hat einen kritischen Treffer erzielt.

 

So either so do care, that some words are not linked or you try to change the translation till it fits but may sound awkward.

 

 

Good translations also need to be prepared.

E.g. have a character list.

 

E.g.: Kim.

Is Kim  a male or female character? "Kim Possible" vs "Kim Jong-un"

 

Explain where are the text strings used, so you know the context. Turn to port? Is port a harbor or should you turn left?


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#74
xzar_monty

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Yes. The translators were working under impossible conditions. Thus, the result is rubbish.



#75
theBalthazar

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I am a good supporter of all or nothing.

 

If Obsidian plan to humiliate a language = stay in english.

 

Or perhaps less language but with a better quality.

 

Plus, translator work at full speed in conditions of excruciating stress, 1 month before the release of the game (true story...)

 

Question at 1 million dollar, why me, Balthazar, and others, doesn't receive a copy of the full game to avoid this shame to the french community ?

 

I could have cleared the most visible errors BEFORE the realase date...

 

Official translators = massive work without context

+

Balthazar and co. = Context + Nosy spy in each tooltip.

 

= Correct work. (Without doubt not perfect, but at least correct)


Edited by theBalthazar, 25 June 2018 - 08:01 AM.


#76
OldViking

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when Obsidian announced that the localisations wouldn't be voiced, that pretty much killed any interest for me. I'm not going to play a game listening to English dialogue and reading German text. Also, i believe that only if the lines are voiced will the effort be made for the text to make sense since an actor has to make sense when he speaks the lines. Localised versions of today are no selling point to me, i don't bother trying them out, just glad i had english back in school.

I am an old bastard, but let me tell you, German localisations voiced or not were always terrible. The only ones saying german localisations are good or even acceptable are the ones, who speak no other language and or even not their native one correct.

My school english was terrible. I only invested time to learn it by playing games. Games that were unberable for me to play in it's German version.

That said, i am with no doubt, not even an average skilled user when it comes to english, but at least i can play games without ripping my remaining hair off. :devil:



#77
theBalthazar

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KOTOR2 was AMAZING with french voice. I remember that.

 

So, it is possible to have a perfect quality. Actors was brilliant.

 

But a shame : Obsidian have never credited names of theses brilliant guys in the outro of the game.

 

I repair this today :

A video from a good french guy.


Edited by theBalthazar, 25 June 2018 - 08:10 AM.


#78
gloomseeker

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Fallout 2 had some pretty good voice acting in French (I remember because I had the misfortune of being stuck with a localised version before getting my hands on a UK version of the game). Sure the narrator wasn't Ron Perlman but he did a fine job and the French Myron was actually pretty good as well.


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#79
Flouride

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KOTOR2 was AMAZING with french voice. I remember that.

 

So, it is possible to have a perfect quality. Actors was brilliant.

 

But a shame : Obsidian have never credited names of theses brilliant guys in the outro of the game.

 

 

It's not just up to Obsidian. LucasArts as the publisher has the final say on such matters.

Naturally it's possible, Kotor 2 had way less words in it than Deadfire. They obviously had a bigger budget for it as well, since it's LucasArts behind the game.







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