Canderous and Revan

[JediMasterRevan]

Did anyone else notice that in Kotor if you were a female, Canderous would always refer to you as "him?" Why do you think this is? Was it planned to be that way or was it an error of some sort? Just wondering.

[Tyrell]

I don't know, I never played with a female character.

[Chi`ara]

I'm thinking this was a faux pas of artistic freedom on behalf of the voice actor, who didn't 'get' that where the script (and screen dialogue if you pay attention) said 'Revan,' 'his' or 'him' were not appropriate substitutes given that Revan's gender was supposed to be secret and interchangeable until the revelation.

 

*swipes run-on sentence award on her way out*

[Lohengrin]

I'm thinking this was a faux pas of artistic freedom on behalf of the voice actor, who didn't 'get' that where the script (and screen dialogue if you pay attention) said 'Revan,' 'his' or 'him' were not appropriate substitutes given that Revan's gender was supposed to be secret and interchangeable until the revelation.

 

*swipes run-on sentence award on her way out*

I thought so to until I replayed it recently. The coversation where the voice actor starts refering to "he" where the text says Revan, actually ends with the sentence "Not even Mandalore could stand against him." So it is perfectly understanable that the actor took some liberties earlier in the conversation, since the end of the text calls Revan "him"

[Sarkile]

The Mandalorians didn't know Revan's gender and probably just assumed it was male.

[Gorth]

[flamebait]Which selfrespecting mandalorian warrior would want to admit being beaten by a girl... [/flamebait]

 

Later he turned all soft and squishy, lost all self respect and became a Revan (genderless) groupie B)

 

I liked the guy, one of the more interesting npcs, and an awesome melee fighter to boot.

 

Wouldn't mind seeing more of him in Kotor2

[tripleRRR]

Canderous owned in KotOR, after awhile he was the best melee fighter except for my Guardian character.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Chi`ara]

The coversation where the voice actor starts refering to "he" where the text says Revan, actually ends with the sentence "Not even Mandalore could stand against him." So it is perfectly understanable that the actor took some liberties earlier in the conversation, since the end of the text calls Revan "him"

Ooooooh...

 

"There weren't many of us left after that last battle. Mandalore himself was killed at the hands of the Jedi Revan. The best of us could not defeat him!"

 

So it does. This I did not know until now. That kinda sucks, so I guess the standard Mandalorian excuse/flamebait above probably works best, unless on the off chance that last 'him' was supposed to Mandalore, but I sincerely doubt it was.

[Bless]

I also always figured the "him" was in referece to Revan's "lack" of sex. Right? Because in English (and French and . . . pretty much everything else), a group of men and women is referred to as male. So it's usually safest to say that anyone, especially a military opponent, is male just because that's the general term used. It didn't matter what Revan was: he/she/it was far off, an opponent, and so it was just "him".

 

Psst . . . Canderous rules!

[Maria Caliban]

Blessed Sith:

" I also always figured the "him" was in referece to Revan's "lack" of sex. Right? Because in English (and French and . . . pretty much everything else), a group of men and women is referred to as male. So it's usually safest to say that anyone, especially a military opponent, is male just because that's the general term used. It didn't matter what Revan was: he/she/it was far off, an opponent, and so it was just "him"."

 

Not quite. In Latinate languages nouns have gender. For instance, 'table' in Spanish is 'la mesa' (f) while 'car' is 'el coche' (m) and you can't have genderless groups or objects. Las chicas is a group of girls, while los chicos can be a group of boys or a group of boys and girls.

 

English, while it borrows heavily from Latinate languages, is Germanic, therefore, nouns are genderless. In Old English, the genderless human was a 'man', a male human a 'werman', and a female human was a 'wyfman'. In modern English, you can use the term 'men' to describe a group composed of men and women. Just not in all circumstances.

 

This entire conversation is moot, however, as we are dealing with the Mandilorian language and culture, not English and Western society.

[sniggy]

simple: revan was a male back then. not only did they wipe his memory, but also changed his gender.

[Maria Caliban]

Speaking of which, why didn't I lose light side points when Bastila and Reven kissed? Passion is passion.

[EnderAndrew]

There is a grey Jedi too. Avoiding passion at all costs seems an extreme view, a precautionary measure to avoid the DS, but not entirely necessary in many's eyes. I think that was part of the message of KOTOR. You could love, and have that love be a strength, not a hinderance in followng your beliefs.

[Bless]

Uhh, I thought that's what my post said, Maria.

 

Male and female together is male. It's not a big jump for you to think the leader of the opposition, when you never see their face, is male as well. And I don't remember the game being in Mandalorian . . .

Aren't "Latinate" languages "Romance" languages?

 

And it wasn't any effing stand for women's rights or s***, sheesh, I was just stating what I thought could explain the use of "him" when it's a "her".

 

The fact that in English if it's more than two people or if it's unknown, it's safest and more correct to say male.

 

And last time I took German, german has THREE genders for nouns. Male, female and neuter.

[Ferret]

I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that people weren't too clear on the specifics of Revan, including his/her gender. S/he was just some mysterious Jedi. You'd think that as the main adversary of the Mandalorians that Canderous might have known, but it depends how secretive Revan really was.

 

-Ferret

[Catscratch]

Nice grammar going :D Maybe the producers had already gone thru this problem and they finally decided to call revan as "him" or maybe it's just a mistake.

[Maria Caliban]

Sorry for not responding to this earlier.

 

Blessed Sith:

" Uhh, I thought that's what my post said, Maria."[/i]

 

No, our posts reflect two very different viewpoints.

 

"Male and female together is male."

Again, not quite.

 

"It's not a big jump for you to think the leader of the opposition, when you never see their face, is male as well. And I don't remember the game being in Mandalorian . . ."

 

No, it's not a big jump for *you*. I have no delusions about women being more kind, caring, and loving than men. If a leader takes pains to conceal their face and gender then I'm not going to assume they're male.

 

But, as I said before, it doesn't matter what you or I assume. What matters is what Canderous assumes as he is the one speaking. Canderous is a Mandalorian so Mandalorian culture would influence his response. I don't know how prevalent female leaders are in his culture, do you?

 

" Aren't "Latinate" languages "Romance" languages?"

 

Yes, 'Latinate' means derived from or imitative of Latin while 'Romance' is the term for all languages derived from Latin. They are synonymous.

 

" And it wasn't any effing stand for women's rights or s***, sheesh,

[hrungnir]

If the text in the game said 'Revan' and the voice actor said 'him', that's cause it was changed in the text database, but someone screwed up and gave the sound recording guys the old line, which the actor read. That's the same reason why there are Yellow lightsabers instead of Gold ones. Lines where Canderous says 'him' about a female character... are a bug that a pass was done to remove.

 

 

The safest and most correct way to refer to someone is the way that the person you're trying to characterize would refer to them. If that's someone using formal English, okay. If it's street slang, then that's okay as well. Aside from that, it's whatever will sound most natural to your audience.

[Taran'atar]

I don't remember Canderous ever referring to "you" using the male pronoun. He refers to Revan, before the Leviathan, as a "he" but not the player character. Remember that Revan wore that big cloak and face mask. The mask also probably had something that distorted his/her voice. If those were the only images the Mandalorians had of Revan, how would they have known Revans gender? Canderous just assumed that Revan was a guy and didn't know any better.

[Drakron]

Canderous was supposed to be the gay romance but was taken out, that is why that line says "him" ... same thing happens with the lesbian furry that says a line to male characters were it sould only say it to female characters.

[Child of Flame]

[flamebait]Which selfrespecting mandalorian warrior would want to admit being beaten by a girl... [/flamebait]

Damn straight! I mean, Mandalorians don't seem to be to big on the Women's Lib movement.

[Child of Flame]

simple: revan was a male back then. not only did they wipe his memory, but also changed his gender.

Damn, they sure did come a long way with TS surgeries.

[Catscratch]

Did Canderous get shocked after Revan's identity revealed as a female ? No ?

Then, not mentioning that is just a prove of it's a misreading or a fault of the voice actor.