Unleash the hot takes on the ending of POE2

[PatrioticChief]

I am really interested in hearing other peoples thoughts but here are a few of mine:

 

1. Narratively I felt PoE1 had the better ending for several reasons. 

 

2.  Eothas actions were momentous for the world, they did not feel momentous for you. Defeating Thaos had significant personal ramifications for your character. Yes, your actions had significant ramifications for the Dyrwood but the opportunity to speak with Iovara and confront Thaos was of a deeply personal nature. The only personal investment in Eothas was regaining your soul and that was achieved much earlier. Sure, you're Herald, and presumably have to do as it demands or you die, but considering you end up doing absolutely nothing to stop Eothas anyways it doesn't seem to mean very much. 

 

3. There did not seem to be any deep contemplative period. In Sun and Shadow you were given two large opportunities to role play and ponder the nature of your character with Iovara and Thaos. Eothas final conversation provides little depth of interaction outside of one line of conversation to change, or repeat, your calculus from your discussion with the Gods thrice previously. The game consistently hints at the true nature of the resurrected Eothas but at the end you just kill a dragon, chat for a line or two, and then the game ends. It felt like the game had some great ideas but it really gives you few options to explore them deeper. 

 

4. The ending choices are poorly relayed. Now, I don't remotely mind having the impact of the decisions not be what you expect. But I at least want to know if my one line of dialogue to Eothas is going to cause him to use his body as a haven for lost souls so that they don't wallow in the In-Between. When I returned the souls to the Hallowborn children I did not know exactly what would happen but damnit if I didn't know that is what I was doing. I understand Berath says "choose your words wisely" but how am I supposed to know that one line of dialogue is so momentous? It's basically the first line of dialogue you get, forgive me for thinking there would be more of a conversation. 

 

5. I thought the casual massacre of whatever factions leadership you had not done in yet was very tacky. Like I have killed an adra dragon, am I really supposed to be afraid of a couple of rifleman and their general at this point? Just seemed like a convenient way to eliminate some characters. 

 

6. The final act was superior to POE1 at least in terms of game play. Seizing a pirate ghost ship, helping my fleet win the battle, and fighting a massive morphing dragon was a lot more fun than just grinding through Sun and Shadow. 

 

7. I like how you can choose to defy Eothas and he just obliterates you. Love that you have that freedom even if you have to reload and do something else to finish the game. 

 

8. I thought the game did an excellent job of setting the stage for a quality sequel. 

 

9. I love how they portray how massive Eothas is. 

 

10. I cannot decide if I hate that the player is stripped of all agency or I love it. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[marimo]

It felt more like a midpoint than an ending. It would probably look better if there were a third game but ideally each installment in a series should have its own narrative arc that comes to a satisfying ending, in addition to laying groundwork for a new installment. Deadfire sets up tantalizing pieces for future moves but the chasing Eothas storyline doesn't really have enough to it to feel satisfying. The faction questlines are good but feel fairly disconnected from the ending itself. 

 

The stories aren't that similar but the feeling at the end of this game for me was like the feeling at the end of DA:I where you'd clearly defeated the main antagonist and resolved the things you were supposed to, but it felt unsatisfying. Then the Trespasser DLC came out and I felt like that was the ending I didn't know I was missing until I played it. I can't really explain why I felt that way, either, but I know a lot of other people did too. When I finished Deadfire there was the same feeling of missing some piece that isn't there. I'd probably have to do some serious thinking to figure out why, but well, I'm not a writer, so I leave it to others. 

[Ildun]

To be honest, my mindset now is deeply influenced by Mass Effect series when it come to sequel which continue the story.

 

So far, I am not satisfy because most of the previous decision does not have much influence to this sequel and its ending( I know, please don't talk about ME3 ending ). Hel, I just end one Hollowborn crisis, now I have to stand and watch another bigger scale Hollowborn crisis!

[Selky]

I thought the main plot was absolutely terrible aside from the Rymyrgand ending, all of the conversations were so uninteresting that it made me want to mash 1 and get it over with. Whoever wrote it was too busy writing purple prose about golden cords and bells to write something that was actually interesting.

 

Eothas breaking the Wheel should've happened near the start of the game. Let the rest of the game be about the ensuing chaos in the Deadfire and how the factions respond to it. Chasing a statue for the entire game was stupid.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Selky

[Ildun]

I thought the main plot was absolutely terrible aside from the Rymyrgand ending, all of the conversations were so uninteresting that it made me want to mash 1 and get it over with. Whoever wrote it was too busy writing purple prose about golden cords and bells to write something that was actually interesting.

 

And if Eothas absolutely had to break the Wheel, then it should've happened near the start of the game. Let the rest of the game be about the ensuing chaos in the Deadfire and how the factions respond to it. Chasing a statue for the entire game was moronic.

If there is a Eothas fanatic cult act as main antagonist throughout main quest, who responsible for manipulating factions conflict, then it maybe better.

[Wormerine]

10. I cannot decide if I hate that the player is stripped of all agency or I love it.

 

Dislike on my part. The revelation of Gods nature is a big deal. How to approach that knowledge is a very interesting dilemma for the second game. Yet direction and action is made by the 3rd party. It also rings false to me - really, after all this time, now god decided to completely **** everything up. And why? I can’t think of other reason rather than - the player knows, we have to move forward, if we give him a choice we will end up with multiple completely different universes by the end of the game. The way they did it, we have pretty much a set world for the 3rd game. However, everything done in Deadfire feels hollow. It doesn’t matter which faction takes over. It doesn’t matter that you chase Eothas. Your journey didn’t influence anyone - not you, not your companions.

[Yria]

Completely agree with OP's points 2 and 3. I liked the story a bit more than I expected from the spoilers, but it just felt too grand and not personal enough. Sure, Eothas destroyed Caed Nua, killed our entire household (still waiting for the answer how Vela survived it though) and stole a piece of our soul, but we don't even get to talk about it or about how it makes us feel for most of the time, so at times I had to remind myself that I'm chasing the statue not only because Berath told me to, but also because I need my soul back. I think I only had Adaryc and some VTC representative of all people express their sympathies regarding Caed Nua, which allowed me to say something in response, and that was it. 

[PatrioticChief]

It felt more like a midpoint than an ending. It would probably look better if there were a third game but ideally each installment in a series should have its own narrative arc that comes to a satisfying ending, in addition to laying groundwork for a new installment. Deadfire sets up tantalizing pieces for future moves but the chasing Eothas storyline doesn't really have enough to it to feel satisfying. The faction questlines are good but feel fairly disconnected from the ending itself. 

 

The stories aren't that similar but the feeling at the end of this game for me was like the feeling at the end of DA:I where you'd clearly defeated the main antagonist and resolved the things you were supposed to, but it felt unsatisfying. Then the Trespasser DLC came out and I felt like that was the ending I didn't know I was missing until I played it. I can't really explain why I felt that way, either, but I know a lot of other people did too. When I finished Deadfire there was the same feeling of missing some piece that isn't there. I'd probably have to do some serious thinking to figure out why, but well, I'm not a writer, so I leave it to others. 

 

I cannot like this post enough. That is exactly how I felt about the ending of DAI and the ending of Trespasser. Trespasser was honestly the only ending I've ever really loved out of a Bioware game. And that's not to throw shade at some of their other endings which were definitely decent (ME:1/KOTOR1) or good (ME:2). But they never had the same umph for me. 

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

I found it disturbing how little everyone else cared for a living god walking around and destroying the soul reincarnation machine. I must have missed the memo PROFITS/TERRITORIES >>> ESSENCE OF BEING, which was apparently the main motivator for every faction. I really missed a more philosiphical/scholarly faction that is actually interested in researching the gods and the effects of Eothas destroying the wheel. You would expect the world would be shaken up after such an event and petty politics playing a minor role, not so in Eora. 

Most of the game would have worked without Eothas and the main story line, which made the main story line feel underwhelming. The ending had pretty much no impact on me and was not very satisfying since it concluded almost nothing. What was the point for you main character ? Why go through the ordeal ? To get your soul back ? Which negative effects were there due to losing a part of your soul ? None ? Any ? All these points were never directly addressed or resolved, or did i miss them ?

The premise was promising and the factions and colonial setting worked really well but the gods and souls part felt rather unpolished and ill-conceived.

[Yria]

Which negative effects were there due to losing a part of your soul ? None ? Any ? All these points were never directly addressed or resolved, or did i miss them ?

 

It is stated early in the game that as long as Eothas has your soul you can't stray to far from him as it would kill you. 

[PatrioticChief]

 

Which negative effects were there due to losing a part of your soul ? None ? Any ? All these points were never directly addressed or resolved, or did i miss them ?

 

It is stated early in the game that as long as Eothas has your soul you can't stray to far from him as it would kill you. 

 

 

Yet you can traverse the far flung edges of the deadfire without consequence. At least in tresspasser your character was constantly keeling over in agony to remind you of the threat. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Slotharingia]

I actually like games where the player's actions are ultimately pointless, but I think the much maligned DA2 did it better. In Deadfire, the whole main plot centers around following this huge dude around, which if you actually play the game, you aren't doing. You're faffing around the Deadfire for up to 1 and a half years, while he basically waits for you feeding off souls to sustain himself. The other gods come across as impotent. So while I do really like the game and bugs etc aside, The main plot is its greatest weakness imo. Even when you get to pick something to request from Eothas, it just feels like a rehash of the POE1 ending and I didn't feel I had the remotest clue what would be the best option.

[Taevyr]

To me it seemed like they put most of their time in building up the different factions and their respective beliefs, characters and questlines, and then suddenly realized they'd forgotten to add to the actual main quest. The way the factions influence the region, their beliefs and goals, moral greys and the way they play off one another is brilliant. However, there is little to none of that present in the main quest, which is a shame considering the known existence of factions and fractures among the gods, and neither is there a real personal goal for the watcher aside from "gotta get my soul back because Berath told me so".

 

Of course, one of the clear themes in Deadfire is that the Watcher isn't this omnipotent figure who can always make the best choices and influence everything on his own. But it still stings that the main quest amounts to "follow this divine statue around then influence his decision in a small way with 2-3 lines of vague ending dialogue".

[PatrioticChief]

To me it seemed like they put most of their time in building up the different factions and their respective beliefs, characters and questlines, and then suddenly realized they'd forgotten to add to the actual main quest. The way the factions influence the region, their beliefs and goals, moral greys and the way they play off one another is brilliant. However, there is little to none of that present in the main quest, which is a shame considering the known existence of factions and fractures among the gods, and neither is there a real personal goal for the watcher aside from "gotta get my soul back because Berath told me so".

 

Of course, one of the clear themes in Deadfire is that the Watcher isn't this omnipotent figure who can always make the best choices and influence everything on his own. But it still stings that the main quest amounts to "follow this divine statue around then influence his decision in a small way with 2-3 lines of vague ending dialogue".

 

Yep. There is a way to strip players of agency that feels narratively satisfying. Just don't think they pulled it off here. 

 

I will commend the art team though. From a visual perspective I do think they did a great job of portraying Eothas as an unstoppable force of nature. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Skazz]

I actually like games where the player's actions are ultimately pointless

 

I don't. I get enough of that in real life.

 

Driving a sharp, bleak crucifix in the nuts may be enjoyable if it's a movie and you're watching something by someone like Lars von Trier. In a game that prizes itself on the multitude of ways to take on and/or invest yourself in the world before you, saying that it was ultimately all for naught is the last thing I usually want to hear.

 

But that's just me.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Skazz

[Slotharingia]

 

I actually like games where the player's actions are ultimately pointless

 

I don't. I get enough of that in real life.

 

Driving a sharp, bleak crucifix in the nuts may be enjoyable if it's a movie and you're watching something by someone like Lars von Trier. In a game that prizes itself on the multitude of ways to take on and/or invest yourself in the world before you, saying that it was ultimately all for naught is the last thing I usually want to hear.

 

But that's just me.

 

Yeah well like I said it depends upon the game. If it's built up to make narrative sense I like it, if it just feels meh, it's just meh.

[Skazz]

^ Sure, I can agree on that.

[Taevyr]

 

To me it seemed like they put most of their time in building up the different factions and their respective beliefs, characters and questlines, and then suddenly realized they'd forgotten to add to the actual main quest. The way the factions influence the region, their beliefs and goals, moral greys and the way they play off one another is brilliant. However, there is little to none of that present in the main quest, which is a shame considering the known existence of factions and fractures among the gods, and neither is there a real personal goal for the watcher aside from "gotta get my soul back because Berath told me so".

 

Of course, one of the clear themes in Deadfire is that the Watcher isn't this omnipotent figure who can always make the best choices and influence everything on his own. But it still stings that the main quest amounts to "follow this divine statue around then influence his decision in a small way with 2-3 lines of vague ending dialogue".

 

Yep. There is a way to strip players of agency that feels narratively satisfying. Just don't think they pulled it off here. 

 

I will commend the art team though. From a visual perspective I do think they did a great job of portraying Eothas as an unstoppable force of nature. 

 

Showcasing Eothas as this unstoppable force was definitely done well, and one part of the main quest i really loved, both in art and narratively, was the vulcanic eruption and Ondra's tidal wave following your conversation with him at Ashen maw: that actually felt like a conflict between gods, in which all the Watcher could do was watch and hope Eothas manages to keep him/her alive.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Taevyr

[drchocapic]

My main issue with the critical path is that I pretty much could have stayed in Port Maje, sipping piña coladas all day, and the end result would have been the same.

 

Aside from a couple conversations with the gods where you get put back in your place any time you try to interject, there isn't too much of substance to actually achieve during the main plotline.

[PatrioticChief]

 

 

To me it seemed like they put most of their time in building up the different factions and their respective beliefs, characters and questlines, and then suddenly realized they'd forgotten to add to the actual main quest. The way the factions influence the region, their beliefs and goals, moral greys and the way they play off one another is brilliant. However, there is little to none of that present in the main quest, which is a shame considering the known existence of factions and fractures among the gods, and neither is there a real personal goal for the watcher aside from "gotta get my soul back because Berath told me so".

 

Of course, one of the clear themes in Deadfire is that the Watcher isn't this omnipotent figure who can always make the best choices and influence everything on his own. But it still stings that the main quest amounts to "follow this divine statue around then influence his decision in a small way with 2-3 lines of vague ending dialogue".

 

Yep. There is a way to strip players of agency that feels narratively satisfying. Just don't think they pulled it off here. 

 

I will commend the art team though. From a visual perspective I do think they did a great job of portraying Eothas as an unstoppable force of nature. 

 

Showcasing Eothas as this unstoppable force was definitely done well, and one part of the main quest i really loved, both in art and narratively, was the vulcanic eruption and Ondra's tidal wave following your conversation with him at Ashen maw: that actually felt like a conflict between gods, in which all the Watcher could do was watch and hope Eothas manages to keep him/her alive.

 

 

I agree completely. Arguably the best part of the critical path.