[Spoilers] End game slides - actions/reactions, logic issues?

[Anarath]

Hi everyone,

 

there are already a few topics with rants and concerns about the main plot and its not my intention to come up with redundant stuff. So, I hope it isn't.

In this case I want to just go straight for one particular thing that started bothering me after I saw a video on Youtube.

 

The guy in the video did a speed run of PoE2 in about 20 minutes. Pretty nice usage of mechanics and somewhat fun to watch him exploit the game that way.

But what struck me were the end game slides.

 

A little explanation what he did (not):

 

He went straight for the main quest (obviously).

Did not a single side quest.

Did none of the faction quests.

Just straight following Eothas.

And also bypass every possible fight (even the protector of Ukaizo … duh)

 

So in the end his slides told a pretty obvious story of the Deadfire being as torn as it was before he arrived. Well, actually a bit more since Ukaizo was now open for tourism again and people fought over the best place in the sun.

 

At this point you might ask „Whats your point/problem with that?“.

 

After spending 115 hours into the game. Searching for every quest, every secret, every stone to flip over and trying my best to make the factions start to work together, or at least trying to change things for the better, I found myself in nearly the exact same situation as the guy who did none of this.

Beware! Exaggerating heavily now: Basically a 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' feeling. Indi could’ve just stood at home and nothing would’ve changed – the Ark would’ve been found, opened and sealed away afterwards. (Still a good movie ^^)

 

To be more clear: I did everything except the final quest for any of the factions. And in the end I had nearly the same outcome than the guy doing exactly nothing in the Deadfire.

Well, ok. Small things did change but I was doing so much more and trying to find ways to make peace between the factions (which seemed of not being intended by the devs anyway).

 

Just 3 strange minor things as examples:

- For some mysterious reason the RDC followed me to Ukaizo, being totally pissed – no-one else, which left me in disbelief. Even more so while I had Maia with me and she said nothing when they attacked us and died. No mentioning of that in the slides as well.

- Not even a word of the fact I captured the Floating Hangman, but never brought it back to the Principi. (Screw you, Aeldys! )

- And Neketaka was said to be in chaos. Though the Gullet got food from the Queen, the black market allows for some 'wealth' down there too, the Watershapers got stored energy for generations to come – no enslaved drake though, the Wahaki renewed their oath and be there in times of crisis, slavery is gone from the Deadfire, the Dawnstars still helping out and now you tell me Neketaka is in chaos? Politically maybe, but aside from the fighting over Ukaizo the people on Neketaka should be okay-ish.

 

 

Obviously I got carried away by the 22 intelligence of my wizard and thought I would be smart too. What an epic misjudgment of my abilities.

 

The core of my intentions; and maybe a good way to laugh about my silly actions: The whole idea of ending a quest line for any of the factions seemed very wrong considering all the problems it might cause. The imbalance in power and what it might mean to the Deadfire and its people. There were possibilities and threats which I pondered for hours. Ya, I’m THAT sort of guy. Quiet annoying when you want to play and have to stop constantly for an eternity (pun intended) to think about your actions.

 

My final thought was that they need to work together to build a stable Deadfire (a sturdy roof needs multiple pillars to stay on. Puns flying like Serafen’s bullets.). And if the factions don’t want to work together by themselves I make them ... by force. So I set up everything. Last thing to do was to have a final talk to any of the representatives to choose a side. Which I denied to do. From everything they've said and done they all were just opportunistic dickheads (imo). But there were 2 possible solutions that might make it work for everyone.

 

1. What if I choose to have them go after me – together? They had some idea of where Ukaizo lies but needed me to get there and (maybe) stop Eothas. So if I deny to work with any of them, my conclusion was that they might see me as threat to their interests and to the Deadfire – a loose cannon Watcher going solo stealing the secrets of Ukaizo and whispering whatever he wants into Eothas’ ear; they were so paranoid already anyway, maybe they would see me as more dangerous than their neighbors. Collectively do so. And chase me. And we would all have a meet & greet at Ukaizo beach where I would make them wonder about the fact they actually just did work together for a greater good.

 

2. If that wouldn’t work I had a Plan B set up. Having a representative of every faction being on my team when I get to Ukaizo. Tekehu, Serafen, Maia and Pallegina were at my side when I landed on the Island and met with my bro Eothas. No better way of making a statement than this. The Watcher working with a team of people that includes one of each of the Deadfires factions. Cooperation brought us to Ukaizo and back, stopping the storms and at least giving the Kith an advantage (blessing from Eothas) when trying to go for the next big thing: Repairing the wheel.

 

Ya well, needless to say that didn’t happen. None of it mattered the slightest. I felt dumb.

 

 

And now you’re going to ask why did I expect anything to change if I’m not going for the final faction quests in the first place?

Because I DID change a whole lot of things in the Deadfire.

I DID work for the factions all the way up to the great finale.

And I DID try to make it work for everyone during the course of the story.

 

But the last mission to Ukaizo was the only thing that mattered to make a real change in the end …

And just doing as the guy in the speed run (+ just doing side quests while ignoring the factions) would’ve brought me to the same end. With far less headaches on the way, I say.

 

To be honest this felt like a big let down and made no sense to me.

 

 

So, thats my lil' story. What are you guys thinking about this?

Am I wrong in my thinking or do you feel like me in this regard?

[E.RedMark]

So did I . I mean , I did do all their quest...hoping they put their bickering aside and join me in the end . You know..to stop a disaster from happening?

 

And like you , I end up with rauata showing up and Maia never said anything . 

 

But then , you see that the Gods themself are acting like the factions leaders , not getting along either . Double facepalm !

 

Two things here : 

 

1- dialogues are bugged like hell . So I advice to wait till patch fix them and see if we get anything new from that . 

 

2- Story was built so the real stuff will happen in POE3 . 

 

So while it feel like a let down , let's remember that all the factions weren't perfect . They all had their flaws one way or another . Maybe they weren't mean to join force...maybe it's impossible . Maybe it's written that way for a reason we cannot see . Maybe it just lazy writing 

 

Alas....it is what it is . The Journey though is still fun 

[yoyolll]

I'm not sure why you have to choose only one ally at the end.  I managed to satisfy Huana, VTC, and Principi, and I made a save so I could see the final quest for each of them.  None of them seemed to oppose each other, but picking one locks you out of the other.  I understand why you have to choose between VTC and RDC, but why is it not possible to ally with Huana, Principi, and either VTC or RDC?

 

And yes, the ending slides were pretty disappointing.  The ending overall left a pretty bad taste in my mouth after an otherwise great game.  I tried a few different things with my last save and it barely changed the slides at all.  I'm waiting for them to get added to the wiki so I can see all the possibilities, but I suspect there will be far fewer options than Pillars 1 had.

[Zeitzbach]

I really don't expect Deadfire to settle down with a happy ending. If anything, the whole 4-way battle is like a super glorified version of the Defiance Bay faction battle. There's just no way for them to settle down and like each other.

 

Meanwhile, the companions has TONS of slide though. All the side quests and so on are really to build up companions especially the faction-based people. It's great to see that the character I do care the most are greatly affected by the journey. It felt good seeing MAia complain that RDF are being dumb going for Ukaizo and making her question if her loyalty is being used to really serve the people or just the top brass.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Anarath]

I really don't expect Deadfire to settle down with a happy ending. If anything, the whole 4-way battle is like a super glorified version of the Defiance Bay faction battle. There's just no way for them to settle down and like each other.

 

Meanwhile, the companions has TONS of slide though. All the side quests and so on are really to build up companions especially the faction-based people. It's great to see that the character I do care the most are greatly affected by the journey. It felt good seeing MAia complain that RDF are being dumb going for Ukaizo and making her question if her loyalty is being used to really serve the people or just the top brass.

 

 

Well, I understand what you are saying and I had a similar thought.

 

But then again in games like this we play the hero. The hero makes a difference, changes the world to the better (or worse if this is an option). With stopping Thaos we felt to make it better.

And now we have the Deadfire. The main plot is not winnable for us, since we can't stop Eothas anyway. So, we rely on the stuff we might can change: People. The outcome for the population of the Deadfire.

 

Of course we have the means to do so - somewhat - by doing the related quests. By 'somewhat' I mean how it prefers one side over the others. Ok, thats a pretty realistic thing I guess. We can't please everyone. But we might at least spark a small light at the end of the tunnel if we go for a more unconventional solution. Like the 2 I proposed. Its not like I wished the Deadfire to be at harmony. That would be nonsense., illogical

 

But I hoped for a different ending than I got – considering doing nothing at all (see speed run) ended the same way. Thats sorta frustrating.

 

So, my thoughts were more like the people in charge in the Deadfire might have seen whats possible if they work together (to try to stop me or look at the achievements of my representative group) but still have the interests of their factions in the way. As soon as the dust settles they would go over to follow their faction goals again. But maybe for the people having witnessed what happened it would've changed them to be more ... diplomatic. Less brutal fights, more negotiating. Just a glimpse of hope to have things settled in a good way one day.

 

If one slide just had said something like this, allowing for this middle way to be played out, I'd been pleased enough.

 

You think this is too improbable?

Edited May 19, 2018 by Anarath

[hippofant]

Honestly, that doesn't sound very Obsidian-like at all. When has Obsidian ever let us have a everybody-happily-ever-after ending in any game?

[krogothwolf]

I just did the same thing, every quest but the faction ones.

 

Didn't want to side with the pirates. And companions leaving during the faction ones annoyed me so was like, screw it gonna do this on my own.

 

Then the narrative was all doom and gloomy. Need a quest to force them to work together or something it seems. Like the two rival house ones.

 

My biggest disappointment is the romance part in the ending. 

 

I did Xoti and in the end its like, oh she's a devouted girlfriend but hey you both go your separate ways, completely separate ways.

 

She goes back to being part of the dawnstars and stays behind, and you head back to "home" which is destroyed and everyone is dead. 

 

Why are you going home and not staying with the person you romanced in the game or vise versa and they come with you? Feels like a let down there as well.

 

dunno if the same thing happens with the other romances or not but its really an odd choice for it.

[morhilane]

I just did the same thing, every quest but the faction ones.

 

Didn't want to side with the pirates. And companions leaving during the faction ones annoyed me so was like, screw it gonna do this on my own.

 

Then the narrative was all doom and gloomy. Need a quest to force them to work together or something it seems. Like the two rival house ones.

 

My biggest disappointment is the romance part in the ending. 

 

I did Xoti and in the end its like, oh she's a devouted girlfriend but hey you both go your separate ways, completely separate ways.

 

She goes back to being part of the dawnstars and stays behind, and you head back to "home" which is destroyed and everyone is dead. 

 

Why are you going home and not staying with the person you romanced in the game or vise versa and they come with you? Feels like a let down there as well.

 

The "don't join anyone" ending is just what was going to happen if you didn't show up in the Deadfire. The VTC just wants to exploit the place, RDC just want to conquer it, the pirate just want to pirate and the Huana wants everyone under their thumbs.  There is also a factor of second strongest faction in the game that affect the ending (i.e. the faction that shows up after you at Ukaizo).

 

Xoti ended up as the Dawnstars High Priestess in my playthrough, I'm the Lord of Caed Nua. That's either a very long distance relationship or we dump each others because we have duties elsewhere half across the planet.

 

The only one that stays with you are Aloth, because he as nothing else to do and Maia, but only if she returns to the Navy which means she's very busy and don't see you that often (if she quits she dumps you).

[Frog Man]

I just did the same thing, every quest but the faction ones.

 

Didn't want to side with the pirates. And companions leaving during the faction ones annoyed me so was like, screw it gonna do this on my own.

 

Then the narrative was all doom and gloomy. Need a quest to force them to work together or something it seems. Like the two rival house ones.

 

My biggest disappointment is the romance part in the ending.

 

I did Xoti and in the end its like, oh she's a devouted girlfriend but hey you both go your separate ways, completely separate ways.

 

She goes back to being part of the dawnstars and stays behind, and you head back to "home" which is destroyed and everyone is dead.

 

Why are you going home and not staying with the person you romanced in the game or vise versa and they come with you? Feels like a let down there as well.

 

dunno if the same thing happens with the other romances or not but its really an odd choice for it.

I doubt they want our watcher TOO tied up with any characters that they aren’t sure they will bring back for POE3. Eder is a lock to return of course

[krogothwolf]

 

I just did the same thing, every quest but the faction ones.

 

Didn't want to side with the pirates. And companions leaving during the faction ones annoyed me so was like, screw it gonna do this on my own.

 

Then the narrative was all doom and gloomy. Need a quest to force them to work together or something it seems. Like the two rival house ones.

 

My biggest disappointment is the romance part in the ending.

 

I did Xoti and in the end its like, oh she's a devouted girlfriend but hey you both go your separate ways, completely separate ways.

 

She goes back to being part of the dawnstars and stays behind, and you head back to "home" which is destroyed and everyone is dead.

 

Why are you going home and not staying with the person you romanced in the game or vise versa and they come with you? Feels like a let down there as well.

 

dunno if the same thing happens with the other romances or not but its really an odd choice for it.

I doubt they want our watcher TOO tied up with any characters that they aren’t sure they will bring back for POE3. Eder is a lock to return of course

 

Except the ending for Eder implies he's going to be staying with his "son" so unless they're bringing that guy in or killing him off I don't know if Eder is a lock.

 

But your point is on the nose. I wasn't even thinking POE 3 lol, just the ending of this one.

[Anarath]

I just did the same thing, every quest but the faction ones.

 

I'm a bit confused. Because I never stated to have not done the faction quests – it was more a thing about doing everything except the final quest for each of the factions and still have no impact on the outcome just like someone who did no faction related quests at all.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Anarath