Kordanor

I understand what you mean. And this means that some dex increases with fast weapons will not show the full speed increase, as 3% of 20 frames are not always enough to speed it up by one frame. Which also means by dual wield that in some cases, that this difference will be doubled. But as we don't know how the system rounds up/down and it's almost impossible to test, I don't think there is too much use of going into that detail.

Guess I have to correct my previous post. As the speed boost is probably no deduction. That way with a 100% boost, you had an infinitely high attack speed. So just ignore what I wrote before. It's more likely that it's calculated: So to correct my previous posting - one cycle with 2H weapons would be: AttackSpeed / (1+DexSpeed) + RecoverSpeed*(1+ ArmorPenalty) / (1+ DexSpeed) AttackSpeed = 30 Frames -> 1s RecoverySpeed = 54 Frames ->1.8s With the example of 15 Dex and 20% armor it's 1/1.15 + 1.8*1.2 / 1.15 = 0,87 + 1,88 = 2.75 With 10 Dex and 20% however it's 1/1+1.8*1.2/1 =1+2,16 =3,16 And this would actually mean it only takes 0,87% of the time. Which is the same result as before, but the formula doesnt go into infinity. ^^ But correct me if I am wrong. My last math classes are more then a decade in the past.

Cool, thanks! So to correct my previous posting - one cycle with 2H weapons would be: AttackSpeed * (1-DexSpeed) + RecoverSpeed * (1- DexSpeed + ArmorPenalty) AttackSpeed = 30 Frames -> 1s RecoverySpeed = 54 Frames ->1.8s With the example of 15 Dex and 20% armor it's 1*0.85 + 1.8 * (1 - 0.15 + 0.2) = 0.85 + 1.89 = 2.74 With 10 Dex and 20% however it's 1*1+1.8*(1+0.2) =1+2,16 =3.16 So it's only taking 87% of the time. Which isn't too bad. (Edit: Multiple math corrections as I always forgot to include something) Also adding the top DPS (by Base Damge) Numbers with 2 fast weapons: 2*AttackSpeed * (1-DexSpeed) + 2*RecoverSpeed * (1- DexSpeed + ArmorPenalty) AttackSpeed = 20 Frames -> 0.67s RecoverySpeed = 24 Frames ->0.8s With the example of 15 Dex and 20% armor it's 1.33*0.85 + 1.6 * (1 - 0.15 + 0.2) = 1.13 + 1.68 = 2.81 With 10 Dex and 20% however it's 1.33*1+1.6*(1+0.2) =1.33+1.92 =3.25 And that's 86% of the normal time.

well just a very simplistic example for weapon damage: 1 attack per second 10 base damage + 20% dmg through some talent + 10% through enchantment = 13 dps 1 attack per second 10 base damage + 20% dmg through some talent + 10% through enchantment + 20% through might = 15 dps 1 attack per second +20% speed bonus (so effectively 1.2 attacks per second ) 10 base damage + 20% dmg through some talent + 10% through enchantment = 15.6 dps Since damage multipliers are additive in poe, the more you stack, the more you end up profiting from an increased attack rate. Of course this is just theorycraft, but it's just something to keep in mind in regards to recovery bonus scaling. Basically any damage multiplier you have will scale with reduced recovery times, which is not the case with might. Not trying to say Dex is better or even as good as might, I don't know the game anywhere well enough to make any kind of judgement like that, but it's just important to keep in mind that the math and impact of a damage bonus and a recovery bonus are quite different. But if dex only affects attack/casting speed and not recovery time, then the bonus it gives is really only half of it says. So you'll need a lot of additional effects and damage bonuses to make it worthwhile. Sensuki mentioned in one of his videos that they intended to change that. But I don't know if they did or still intend to do.

Other question regarding the Godlikes: Are the other death godlike male Head Choices as ugly as the standard one? ^^

Can you give an example of something which profits from dex, but not from might? Except of a spell which just slows for example, as this of course does not include anything which could be affected by might.

Actually no. With might you get even more than what is displayed. With Dex you get less of what is displayed. ^^ Because if you do 50 dmg vs 10 DT you do 40 dmg net. If you get a 10% dmg bonus by might, you would actually do 55 dmg vs 10 DT = 45 net dmg, which is a total increase of >11% ^^

And does Speed actually influence the recover time? Or only the animation time?

Apparently it works like this: You have an attack speed for each weapon. Let's say it's 2 seconds. Then you have a cooldown speed which has the same value. Both of these values are now modified by different values, like Speed from Dexterity, or Delay by Armor. In addition 2 handed weapons seem to come with an additional 2h delay penalty (according to sensuikis post over here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71165-action-speed-vs-attack-speed-and-dex-how-does-it-all-work/?p=1585611 ) Now the Formular is Basically: Speed for one cycle = (Base Attack speed)*(1 - Speed Bonus by Dex) + (Base Attack Speed)*(1+Armor Malus) + (Additional 2h penalty) Now I have no idea at what speed a 2h weapon comes. But let's just assume it's 1 second. Let's also assume you got 15 dex (5 more than 10, which makes for a speed boost of 15%) and you are wearing a light armor with 20% penalty. So one cycle would be: 1*0.85+1*1.2+1 = 3,05 seconds. The total advantage of your dex bonus was 0,15 seconds. Pertty much a net 5% speed boost. If you took 5 points of might instead, that would be 15% of damge. In addition you don't face the Armor Threshhold that often (hit an enemy with 10 DR with 12 dmg twice, you do 4 dmg total. Hit the same enemy with 24 dmg once you do 14 dmg total) So overall, Dexterity will hardly make any sense with 2h weapon. And hardly any sense if you wear amor. So if at all you would want to take Dexterity on naked ranged classes.

Does your barb use 2h or 2 X 1h weapons? And how AoE focused do you plan making him? From what I understood, it doesnt make sense to increase dex if you are using a 2h weapon as the additional 2h recovering time penalty is not influenced by dex.

Thats actually pretty good news to me, gives additional freedom. And switching from combat gear to "conversation gear" isn't necessarily that anti-RP either.

Can you actually push attributes via enchantments or magical items? And with doing so "savescum" your way through dialogues? So let's say you save, go into a dialoge where you need 14 int, but you only have 12. Then you reload, equipt items which bring you +2 int and then do the dialogue again? Is there actually a way to change any of your attributes after you created your character? it seems like Level ups do not give you any attribute points. But are there any other ways? Like these barrels in Might and Magic? (though they were rather silly)

But did I understand it correctly that with Guns both Shooting and Reloading count as action which profit from Dexterity?

While in this thread there is a lot of talk regarding attributes, what about skills? I mean Stealth and Athletics seem to have no use in dialogues. I guess they are used in these scripted adventure parts insted. But in these cases you can chose the character, so you can put that on a different character. The remaining skills are Lore, Mechanics and Survival. Now it's probably best to increase Mechanics on the same character who is doing stealth, so you don't need to scout around with 2 characters. This leaves Lore and maybe Survival for good skills for the main character to be used in dialogues. So I guess for diplomatic reasons it's best to take a int based character (that's about all classes dependent on build) and one with lore bonus. (Fighters and Druids have a bonus in Lore AND Survival)

@voss I am not sure we are talking about the same game here. New Vegas had tons of possibilities to make decisions and to influence the story. It has a character system extremely similar to the one of Fallout 1 or 2 or many other RPGs. It has more companions than PoE will have. And more than 200 NPCs.

Steam lists the following languages: Languages: Interface Full audio Subtitles English French Italian German Spanish Russian Polish

Um.... New Vegas is an open world FPS with very limited RPG elements. It is a completely different genre. Not really. It has tons of RPG elements, in fact more than most other so called RPGs have. Just that you can play it from a first person perspective does not make it a shooter. You also don't need to aim in New Vegas due to the VATS which will give you better results than normal aiming.

32-bit Operating Systems should have been forbidden anyways.

Worst ending ever. I don't remember the ending. In any case you could take over your crew to EotB 2 :D

I can only point towards the US Release of Fallout New Vegas. @Sensuki: Thanks! If you have too much time at your hand - could you check how long it actually takes to load one of these regions? I think the worst Loading Times I experienced in recent games was in MMX where I had to wait like 15-30 secs within a dungeon and 45-60 secs for the open world (+15 secs to just open the save/load window which was kinda broken).

My biggest worries are actually about the loading time. They were already horrible in the PAX presentations. And I doubt that they used an old PC with HDD there. But I only got a Phenom II X3, GFX 260 and an old HDD. Loading times could be a world of pain...

I liked RPGs the moment I first played any. I think the very first ones were Eye of the Beholder Realms of Arkania 1 Dark Sun Dark Sun I always saw as the predecessor of the infinity engine games as it was D&D, had the same perspective and more freedom in dialogues than the other games I played at that point. However Dark Sun always had one big advantage to me: It was turn based. While I liked Baldurs Gate to some degree and I finished it I got bored about 2/3 the way through and overall it felt kinda disappointing. Planescape Torment I liked a lot. But because I wasn't a big fan of Baldurs Gate 1 I didn't actually check out other Infinity games, or just very shortly. I think I played Icewind Dale for less than an hour (never owned it) and I dropped playing NWN2 after maybe 10 or 20 hours due to the characters system, bad AI and RTwP System which I all didn't like. Bought the enhanced edition of BG2 but dropped it after 90 minutes because of the combat system + unsharp graphics (I love Spiderweb games, so I am not a graphics w**re). So I guess with that background I have quite a hard stand in these forums and Pillars of Eternity needs to work a little harder to convince me compared to most others.

Thanks for your answers so far! What about the very last part I wrote? Is it actually useful to bring all values to 10? Even the ones not actually needed for the class? Or is it fine to just keep them at like 3? Especially on Path of the Damned? About Dex: In the comments of the video Enverxis points out that the problem is also that Damage reduction is an absolute number and not a relative one. So if you hit once with 20 dmg vs 10 armor you do 10 dmg as 10 is absorbed. If you hit with 12 dmg vs 10 armor twice, your net damage is still just 4.

I am wondering which attributes are actually useful for which class. While for some attributes it seems pretty obvious, other attributes either seem to be gimped now according to videos or have very limited usability. So what I will do now is to list the attributes and the description from the Wiki and ask my questions about them. (Haven't played the Beta) Might ±3% Damage ±3% Healing ±2 Fortitude Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense. This one is probably the most obvious one. I don't see any class not massively profiting fromt hat one. Maybe there are classis which have mainly spells like buffs which don't scale with attributes? But I am not aware of that. Constitution ±3% Endurance ±3% Health ±2 Fortitude Constitution is a combination of the character's overall health and stamina. Although it is not used much in interactions, it is sometimes checked to withstand pain or endure a physically taxing ordeal. In combat, it affects maximum Health and Endurance and contributes to the Fortitude defense. In this case it's just the question: Who is getting hurt the most? Probably a matter of how you play the class. But those characters you keep in the back don't need constitution I guess. Dexterity ±3% Action Speed ±2 Reflex Dexterity is an abstraction of a character's hand-eye coordination, balance, and overall grace. In interactions, it can be used for sleight-of-hand and fast reactions. In combat, it affects the character's Action Speed with all attacks, spells, and abilities and contributes to the Reflexes defense. According to You don't even get one extra attack by speed with 9 dex of difference within 38 seconds. So I don't see a point in taking this skill for any class. Perception ±3 Interrupt ±1 Deflection ±2 Reflex Perception represents a character's senses as well as their instinctive ability to pick up on details. In interactions, it can be used to catch someone in a lie, to make an observant comment about their appearance, or to notice something happening in the background. In combat, it grants a bonus to Accuracy with all attacks, contributes to the Reflexes defense, and increases the Range of all non-melee spells, abilities, and attacks. Another skill where I don't see any use for any class. Maybe if you make a pure "interruption" based build. But I am pretty sure that such a build wouldn't be really useful. So who should take this attribute? Intellect ±6% Area of Effect ± 5% Duration ± 1 Will Intellect represents a character's logic and reasoning capabilities. In interactions, it can be useful for deduction, sudden realizations, and problem-solving. In combat, it contributes to the Deflection and Will defenses and influences the sizes of Areas of Effect. Intellect seems to be one of the more useful skills again. Probably mages or specific builds which focus on AoE effects. Enverxis used it for his , so does it have an effect on Blunderbusses in general? Can you name a couple of classes which have viable AoE options? Of course it also increases duration, so it might also be interesting for classes which are based heavily on buffs/debuffs. Resolve ±3 Concentration ±1 Deflection ± 2 Will Resolve reflects a character's internal drive, determination, and the emotional intensity they can project to others. It can be useful for mental intimidation, leadership, and convincing performances. In combat, it helps characters maintain Concentration, increases the durations of spells and abilities, and contributes to the Will defense. Probably the Attribute where I have the least imagination what it is good for. It says in the text that it increases the durations of spells and abilities but doesn't say so in the bonus section. In addition Intellect is already doing that apparently (or is that an error in the wiki?) Now what is concentration good for? I guess the casters need to stay in the back anyways and ideally don't get interrupted all the time anyways. Or is there one class which has so long spells in general that it's worth to take this spell to avoid the possibility to get interrupted there? In addition according to the wiki 10 is the base value, and higher/lower values will actually start modifying your character. Is the effect for each additional point somewhat exponentional or rather linear? I mean does putting 9 instead of 10 points into Resolve for example hurt as much as putting 8 instead of 9 into it? As far as I understand the saving throw system the first 5 points difference in a defense value actually "convert" a 5% miss chance into a 5% crit chance (150% of dmg instead of 0%). And the next 45 points would convert a glancing blow to a critical blow (150% instead of 50%). So as long as you are already so low that you don't get the 5% miss chance, it doesn't really matter anymore if you are 10 points or 15 points below. Each additional point will hurt the same way. And if you are playing on Path of the Damned difficulty, which includes that enemies have 50% higher attributes you will be beyond that point anyways. Or do I miss something?

Oh, darn, missed that one. So I guess you can close this thread @ mods. ^^