Cantousent

I agree with this, and even more to the point, the followers probably believe the deity is good. The deity probably presents himself as good. If he saw the DnD alignment system, he'd probably say, "By Jove, I'm Lawful Good!" ...But in a world without an absolute and immediately discernable alignment, his assertion or belief won't make him good. In fact, the concept of good and evil will undoubtedly exist in the game world just as they exist as ideas throughout the history of humanity. The absence of alignment doesn't destroy the concept of good and evil. It just makes them debatable.

Well, there's a difference between an absolute, discernable, and universal alignment system and the tenets of faith. A deity will still have a code and require the adherrants to abide by the code. In that way, the diety requires that follows 'align' with his faith, but that's still not a universal 'alignment.' It's a personal rather than absolute alignment. DnD really screwed up the we grognards use the word, 'alignment.' EDIT: I don't know why I try to tidy up my sloppy assed posts, but I guess I can't help myself.

I would like to point out that I can get behind atheists (or folks wanting to play atheists) in the game, but it does make it a bit snarky when my real life faith is disparaged in the process. Any educated person of faith, and I humbly submit that I am such a one, can make anti-religious, anti-theist, and atheist arguments. After all, folks of faith hear them all the time. Belief and our relationship with the world is quite difficult to quantify, but I do believe a convincing and compelling character can be made. However, will the design team find it useful to do so? If the request is for a player character atheist priest, that's a lot of specific dialogue. Aw, what the hell, snarky can be good as long as we don't flame for several pages.

I don't think having atheist or anti-theist characters is totally bad, but they would have to have some feasible game-world explanation so we don't roll our eyes. I can think of atheist arguments within the setting, but whether they'd flesh out to be reasonable on further thought I don't know. I'm certainly not an atheist and I doubt if I make one, so no skin off my back either way.

EDIT: @Ieo Yeah, I can understand the idea behind multi-classing, but I think allowing wide lattitude in how you develop each class is a more delicate way to address the issue. I remember someone kept an updated blog kind of thread going for a multi-class character to solo BG1. I think multi-classing for folks who don't want to be stuck keeping a party together is good, but making it so that each character has ways to overcoming weaknesses is better. ...But I don't hate multi-classing per se. I just think it would be tough to get it to work right and if they have to choose between a couple more classes and designing multi-classes, I want new classes. On the other hand, I'll enjoy whatever they put together.

Boo to multi-classing, no offense intended, Ieo. :Cant's wry grin icon:

Hot damn! Wizards and Priests as distinct classes. I completely agree with the idea of four core classes with blends coming into the mix in different way. I notice, however, that there are no paladins. hehe :Cant's gleeful dance at the absence of paladins icon:

"So far what I have been seeing is that any opinion, that looks like something that might not please some minority, gets locked and reprimanded immediately." I'm not calling you out on this, but it just seems untrue on its face. Even threads which eventually get locked tend to go on for pages of flames before-hand. I haven't always agreed with the mods around here, and I've been politely reprimanded by Fionavar, but I think the mods have been *particularly* understanding in the Project Eternity fora. You have freedom of speech, so answer obnoxious or ill-reasoned speech with something better. No matter how many people shout you down, an informed and well considered comment will still find some cache here. Some of the devs might even see your response and it may be that you carry the day without even knowing it. Finally, keep in mind the kickstarter hasn't even completed, let alone the long long road to bringing the product to market. The devs can't come clean about everything when they don't know what everything will be yet. EDIT: aside from fixing a typo, I figure this is as good a place for me to point out the fact that the Project Eternity banner at the top of the forum doesn't show properly and is cut in half. I PMed a mod earlier, and I'm sure they already know and other folks have posted, but I actually find it distracting now that I know it's there.

I want the sound track to be long, of course, but it's more important to get the music right. I'm hoping for some longer pieces and then a spread of smaller pieces that LC mentions. In fact, some pieces might be quite short, although that's not necessarily true. Even pieces associated with specific actions, such as combat, or specific NPCs, such as Deionarra's theme, can be quite long. BTW Red: Nice to see you've gone all sherrif on us again. Do I get special dispensation for drunken brawling and being a ne'er do well? :Cant's wolfish grin icon:

I'm really looking forward to this game. I'm not going to play the demo. I'll just keep my ear to the ground, listen to what you folks say, and maybe read reviews (with a grain of salt, of course). I'm more likely to take the advise here than the so-called 'professional' reviews, but I'll take a gander at both to inform my decision, but I'm pretty sure that I'll be buying this on or soon after release.

I can understand folks advocating for and against things in the game based on personal taste, but is anyone so insane as to believe that the game won't have music because he *personally* doesn't like music in games? Frankly, I'm sure a lot of us don't always play the attending score for every particular game. Hell, even a game where I love the music, like New Vegas, it got to the point where I would sometimes mute the soundtrack and play other music in the background. In other games, World of Warcraft for instance, I always thought the music wasn't to my liking and immediately muted it in favor of my own. In still other games, such as Planescape: Torment, I've kept listening to some of the music even when I wasn't playing the game. I'm not much of a message board cowboy these days and I sure as hell don't want to call out anyone over the music, but apart from my tastes or the apparent interest on the part of many people in the community, Obsidian isn't going to produce a game without a soundtrack. I'd like to reiterate my desire for Classical guitar. I know it might not be possible, but how many actual instruments will you guys use? Are we talking synthetic all the way? I can think of a lot of interesting instruments that would be cool. lol I was at a jazz club in LA recently and the pianist for the trio played part of a song on the mandolin.

Kind of like the composer thread, I'd like to hear Justin create a theme and develop it throughout the breadth of the game. There are so many moments in a CPRG, from dramatic to comedic, that the composer will have plenty of room to maneuver. I don't think he should be confined, however. Mostly, it's just difficult, especially for a complete music noob like me, to put into words exactly what I expect out of the score. I could give examples, but those always seem to fall short in expressing the sorts of things I want from what I hear. I want a beautiful, vibrant world with music that brings out my longing for a fresh world to explore. I want exciting battles with inspiring music. I want a dangerous chase with music that highlights the suspense but also somehow manages to convey the note of despair I feel even as I run for my life because it turned out my most valued companion was a traitor and I was forced to kill her in order to escape. How the hell do you explain to someone what that music sounds like?

I agree with Ov about using a variety of instruments. Spanish guitar, for example, and maybe even a full orchestra. I don't know what kind of expense you'd be talking, but that would appeal to me. It would be ridiculous to expect you guys to have provided a complete score complete with a fully orchestrated soundtrack at this point. We have to listen critically to the samples keeping in mind where we are in the process. This update bodes well for the music in the game.

I'm not too swift, but I just heard the trailer music for the first time. lol Feel free to mock me. I deserve it. Still, I really appreciated that update. I'm stoked now!

You know, I've gotten lazy and disorganized over the years. I joined the kickstarter sight unseen and I follow the updates and whatnot, but I didn't even realize that there was a video. I guess because it was there when I first went to the kickstarter and I'd already decided to pledge before I saw the page in the first place. I had this notion in the back of my mind that there was a video, but I thought it was just a sales pitch talking about project goals and funding. So, the music has been there for a while and now I hear it fresh and... I'm glad. I'm glad I got to hear the music away from the hype of the original video, heard for its own sake and outside the excitement of the initial 24 hours of the kickstarter. Stronger vocals than I expected, but I like them. The first two files were good and I enjoyed them. The last file, though, was what I liked best. I suspect that it's the most... I dunno... 'commercial?' of the three, but I found a certain quality to it that reminded me of some of the great gaming moments in the past. It aspires to and approaches some of the Planescape moments, and I mean every word of that as a compliment. Since games don't come with a smell (at least good ones don't) sound will probably be the biggest memory trigger. If the score can draw something out of the listener, then it can actually smooth over some of the trickier areas of design. This is true also of television in shows where the writing can be quite good, but solid music can make the scene great. I've gone on a bit much, I guess, but I'm so damned happy to get some of the music and I'll be wearing it out while I wait for more. As exciting as some of the concept art can be, the music is even better. After all, we can't look at the artwork while we work on other stuff, but we can listen to the music while we do just about anything else. Thanks guys!

Ah, many thanks, C2B. I just don't read the updates as carefully as I should, I see. :Cant's sheepish grin icon:

I've been avoiding reading much in this forum now that the project is advancing for fear of spoiling something in the game, so I apologize in advance if this question has been asked and answered, but here goes: Feargus responded to a question about music and samples of the Project Eternity score last week by saying that you were going to give an update this week. He specifically mentioned your name, Justin. I looked at the update page on the Kickstarter but no dice. Is one coming? I listened to the music that you linked and I thought it was good, but there wasn't really a central theme. I enjoyed the music and you had good snippets of various projects, which was great, but the only ones that developed a theme in any substantial way were the Mecanika samples, but those were all really short. I think most games that become 'classics' have great music and I'd like to get some sort of word on how you're going to approach it. I think it will be just as important to the finished product as art-work and graphics. We have some great concept art already in the updates, but hardly anything about the music that I can easily find. I'm not a music expert. I don't have anything other than my personal tastes and a lifetime of listening to guide me, but I am excited about the music and I'd like to know more.

I've stumbled along two different dlc transition areas (for lack of a better phrase). I didn't even try the one right near the start area that has a bunch of messages to 'the Courier.' I think I clicked on the door and there was a message I *think* concerning the Lonesome Road dlc. The other area was the Mojave drive-in. I clicked on the satellite, but I was too low leveled to use it. I'm finished with Nipton and I actually found something I hadn't seen in over 200 hours of gameplay last night. I'm going to explore a little tonight and see if I can uncover some other things I either missed or have been put into the game with subsequent dlc/patches. Funy times, though. @Humanoid: Aw, you wouldn't steal from Doc Mitchell would you? :Cant's huge grin icon: Actually, I've always fliched everything of value from the Doc's house, and my first run I fliched every blessed thing I could carry. Money wasn't really a huge deal in the original game, but the dlc seems to ease early game money conservation a real non-issue. I doubt I ever steal from ol' Doc ever again.

dumn idea. not enough locals/

It's hard to think of stuff that would be useful, but I agree about the music. If you have the budget for an orchestra, that would be great.

I think I might end up using TOR as a way to tide my time between other games. I got into Project Eternity and that got me onto New Vegas again, so I had to start another game.

I canceled my subscription. I actually think it's a great game. I kind of wish I'd jumped over from WoW before I'd gotten so disgusted by the MMORPG thing. There's a lot of new and interesting stuff in TOR, but it is, after all is said and done, still an MMG. Not for me. ...But the good thing about these games is that I can buy a game card from time to time and my characters and what not will probably still be there.

Dew eet! You hear Boone's call. I took Boone often, but I also liked the unarmed specialist girl. The ghoul is pretty good, too. Come to think of it, I liked all the npcs. I've played with all of them.

I haven't gotten to any of the dlc yet. I'm pretty much done with Primm in terms of the town, but I seem to recall somehow being able to get quests to take care of the powder gangers. I think I might have messed up by fixing the sherrif robot before I talked to the NCR troops, though. I don't care about the quests, but I'll still go clean out the gangers even if I can't figure out how to trigger the quest line. Slow and stead this run. At least I now have ED to haul crap around for me.

Ah, I could never kill the Lottery Winner, that glorious bastard!