Gromnir

as obsidian is located in california, they is already very familiar with this kinda thing hmmmm. doesn't seem particularly kewl, but we went to Cal, so perhaps we is prejudiced. HA! Good Fun!

there were considerable nerd rage regarding the implausible plate armour for women. such armour were "ridiculous," "sexist," and "demeaning." so, considering fact that the current scale male is no more plausible, am not seeing how community reaction is so different... other than conditioning. the same arguments being presented to allow scale, such as the desire to makes female avatars discernible at the given sizes of the actual in-game models, were no less true for the plate. no, the scale is not cut odd so that there is a hole in the bosom. we can't see exposed thigh or bellybutton. that weren't the case with the plate neither. now, we get that some folks genuine dont understand how armour works... or perhaps how b00bs work. read a description or see a picture o' scale at some wiki site and suddenly newly created experts is concluding that swollen scale Is plausible. *shrug* am not sure how to fix this issue. the fact that folks dont see a problem with scale that fits same as cheerleader sweaters is amusing on a certain level. am suspecting that part o' the problem is conditioning. relative to the way in which fantasy female armours is typically presented in art and games, somehow the scale doesn't strike folks as egregious... but plate were. regardless, plate were nixed, but obsidian turns around and does the Exact Same Thing with scale. *shrug* personally, we don't mind if women in heavy armours looks indistinguishable from men. put women in space suits or hazmat garb, or even the typical fireman's coat, and chances are you can't tell man from woman til somebody starts walking... and even then you gotta look with a discerning eye. to Gromnir there is nothing shocking or strange 'bout women being relative indistinguishable from men when wearing particular garb. in point o' fact, that is what we expect. it seems that other folks has been conditioned by games to expect the opposite. am s'posing there is nothing wrong with such conditioning and the seeming pervasiveness of such conditioning. what we don't get is how such conditioning is selective... and seeming mind-numbing. folks who see nothing wrong with plate and scale? fine. is not our preference, but this is a fantasy game and there is all kinda ridiculousness. to draw line of reason arbitrarily at sweater bunny armours would be silly. the thing is, we don't see how line can be drawn so easily Between plate and scale. it doesn't make any sense. HA! Good Fun!

And @Gromnir, Also, that whole "I bet female gamers don't want to have their characters distinguished from male characters, and that armor design is offensive" line of thinking is awfully double-edged. To avoid gender discrimination in games is not to make sure the female form is never distinguished from the male form. Plenty of females want perfectly female characters. What, should they be offended by their own bodies if they don't go around dressing like men all day? I hardly think so. Scale armor that subtly says "this torso has more frontal mass than this other torso" with like a 15% difference is hardly some kind of sexification of the female form. It's not forcibly accentuating the female form, it's simply not doing the opposite, either. first, it is as if you don't even bother reading Gromnir posts, then get offended and claim we is insulting. please note that we addressed the issue regarding female gamers. we already stated that we fully expect that female gamers wouldn't wanna look like male counterparts, so is you trying to be an arse by throwing in, "I bet female gamers don't want to have their characters distinguished from male characters, and that armor design is offensive"? That is rude. put in quotes as if we said it too. we weren't treating you as an imbecile before, but we may needs to think of you far less kindly in light of recent posts... which brings us back to imbecile statements such as, "Scale armor that subtly says "this torso has more frontal mass than this other torso."" gonna really go with that? such nonsense is what started us down the line o' being increasingly dismissive o' your contributions to this thread. there ain't nothing subtle in the depicted b00b scale. again, the USC cheerleader sweaters is actually more subtle. am also not sure where you got 15%. some random number pulled out of thin air? teknoman2's iron bra suggestion, loaded with cast iron bocce balls, could probable produce your "15%" swell, but it ain't subtle. it may seem subtle to you based on comparisons to other fantasy games. perhaps the scale o' the depiction makes more subtle... maybe. nevertheless, it ain't the least bit subtle. regardless, attribute arguments to Gromnir that we didn't make and is actual contrary to what we said will fail to get us to be treating you with greater respect. put in quotes? *snort* not too subtle for you? HA! Good Fun!

disagree. the debates post release will include seeming minutiae with as much, and possibly greater, frequency. there will be no group-think following release that functionally discourages tangential issues into oblivion. history has shown that the reverse is true. this community will, at least temporarily, swell after release-- people who has never posted here will suddenly appear and they will be happy, angry, curious, confused, satisfied and disappointed. not only will old debates suddenly gain new life, but complete unexpected issues will sudden become the topic du jour. *shrug* regardless, b00b plate was a big enough issue that developers changed female plate. b00b scale is a fail, if it is a fail, for the exact same reasons as plate. the excuses currently being offered for scale applied equal to plate. this should not be a complex issue worth debating, but it is, and it will continue to be an issue in future games... and it will be an issue post release. HA! Good Fun!

it is amusing when folks don't even realize they is indulging in hyperbole. the poe scale armour, which is 'posedley made of strong and heavy metal capable o' stopping enemy weapons, is no less form-fitting than the above uniforms. if the complaint 'bout b00b plate were that it were ridiculous & implausible, then the scale should fail for same/similar reasons IF people is being honest. due to the... uh... scale o' the image, am thinking it is perhaps ez to ignore how fulsome the armour is. then again, perhaps your expectations has been tainted after years o' extreme violations o' physics and good taste... lineage 2 and aribeth from nwn has ruined you? *shrug* am not suggesting that the poe scale armour is gratuitous or is appealing to the prurient interest of players, but the armour IS functional ridiculous and it is ridiculous to accommodate a female figure. is insulting that we would give scale a pass where plate were subject of derision. now, we gots no doubt that many female gamers is likely to be in favor o' poe b00b armour. after all, we suspect that the average woman gamer don't wanna looks indistinguishable from male counterparts. nevertheless, if we is gonna complain 'bout full-coverage b00b plate, then pretending that the poe scale is significant less offensive is impossible. HA! Good Fun!

the 11 o' clock number from Guys & Dolls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7kzsZreG0o what? you folks don't like musicals? HA! Good Fun!

due to some nerve damage, Gromnir has extreme limited use of his left hand. this is why we avoids capitalization in most posts. as such we were very much concerned that without the auto-targeting feature available in games such as swtor, we would be unable to play wildstar. our fears were largely unnecessary as combat, as 'posed to the rest o' the game, is relative intuitive and streamlined. there is movement controls that require some familiarization, but wildstar limits players to using a max 8 abilities at any given time. the intention behind this being the rather naive hope that more plausible/viable builds will be available for each class. from a practical pov, we foresee no real change from any game wherein a Best build is discovered and exploited by most players... the only difference with wildstar is that in every Raid a small number o' folks will be asked to embrace non-optimal support builds to helps better buff everybody around them. in any event, we played the open beta weekend with a rather vanilla dps warrior. we only played it to level 17, but it played similar enough to our dps guardian/juggernaut characters from swtor. we joined a single 5-man group instance. according to the rankings displayed at the end, we were second best dps and 1st best survivability in spite o' the fact that we were literally disabled, had no idea what we were doing, and were the lowest level character in the group. if there is another free weekend before launch in june, we would recommend. alternative: if we does subscribe (unlikely at this point) we will pm you to get you a free week invite. subscribers get 3 guest passes. HA! Good Fun!

Chesty lasses need damage mitigation, too. Don't be hatin'... To be fair, the armor doesn't have "boobs," really, but just a slightly different general torso shape. It's hardly much different from a Roman-style breastplate with big pecs sculpted into it, worn by a dude with a rather girthsome chest region. Out of all the various degrees/methods of sexualization of armor, I have to say that the merest hint that a woman's bosom dwells beneath a solid layer of metal armor is hardly bringing all the boys to the yard. sorry, but you is nuts on this. put chainmail or scale on a woman, regardless o' the size o' her bosom, and the b00bs would disappear. flattened out to absolute nothingness. in cases of extreme endoument, we suppose you would gets a rather formless uniform bulge appearing somewhere mid-torso. we ain't talking 'bout a sculpted cuirass (which for obvious reasons would not have b00bs either.) we ain't talking 'bout costume armour. the scale depicted fits like a usc cheerleader's sweater. seriously. am knowing that some folks will argue anything. some folks will defend the resident developer no matter what. even so, you not have to be any kinda medieval/renaissance armour expert to see that the scale depicted is implausible... and is implausible to makes b00bs visible. am not knowing why only Gromnir finds such stuff to be mildly distasteful and a bit insulting. go figure. HA! Good Fun!

You feel the scale looks sexualized or do you object from a realism pov? I can see it now that you point it out but it didn't jump out at me on first glance. well, it clear ain't realistic, so the question is why were it not made realistic? doesn't that bring us back to sexualized? sure, it ain't no chainmail bikini, but the b00bs is added. we ain't anal about realism. on the contrary, we thinks slavish devotion to realism in a crpg with combat is moronic. we would never use realism as an excuse to implement feature X in favor of feature Y. that being said, am not seeing what makes b00b armour the default. developer gives b00bs unless people complain? that is kinda insulting. 'course the fact that only Gromnir mentioned suggests that the developers were right to assume b00bs is the choice until objected to. HA! Good Fun!

Boobplate. They showed concept art, outrage ensued, soon after a new version appeared. A direct result of backer feedback. You should be able to find the thread easily. we get boobscale though, so all is right with the world... at least as long as we get boobchain too. HA! Good Fun!

what an odd dichotomy? had never considered toliken illustrators to be a specific genre. similarly, lumping erol otus and tony diterlizzi together with larry elmore and jeff easley would seem to be a bit o' an over-generalization. HA! Good Fun!

it is nice to know that fantasy scale not only offers protection, but it lifts and supports for the fashion conscious female warrior who knows how to really use her weapons. *insert eye-roll here* well, maybe the next game does away with such. HA! Good Fun!

Spoiler much? new bsg were 2004. you figure on waiting another decade before watching? rosebud were brand name of Kane's sled. apollo creed beats rocky at the end of the movie. jr weren't actually shot-- it were all a dream sequence. the chick who kinda looked like a guy in the crying game were actually a guy. we would spoil christmas/easter/tooth-fairy for you, but sometimes you give impression of being 'round 8 years old, so we will forebear and lets you continue to enjoy your childlike ignorance. HA! Good Fun! It was actually a really cool series ruined by plot curveballs that made no sense at all. BSG that is. one thing we prefers 'bout many bbc tv shows is that they is having a set duration. producers/writers can plan out a coherent story arc from start to finish. am suspecting that one reason why 24 has been so popular is 'cause each season is an insular and discreet story arc that we presume (we has never actually watched 24,) satisfactorily answers all plot questions raised during the limited run of episodes. bsg, and other such shows, seems to inevitably collapse under their own weight. their were no plan, so the dangling plot threads continue to fray and become an increasingly tangled mess. sit coms, and older episodic shows, could plausibly last forever as there were no singular story one needed to be conscious regarding. even so, such shows invariably get repetitive or dull. regardless, one wishes that American tv shows would embrace the model o' a set run o' a specific # of episodes. that way bsg plot nonsense wouldn't be so typical. HA! Good Fun!

is perhaps ironic then that we know less 'bout poe than we did regarding any o' the ie developments from black isle. as black isle ie games were d&d, and having followed bg, we knew much about core gameplay and setting. we knew vancian magic would be employed. we knew thac0. we knew, or had access to, much o' the lore o' the settings o' games being developed. as obsidian does not have a license holder to contend with, they is free to do as they will. such freedom, and a certain odd taciturn quality regarding core gameplay features, has left us more in the dark than other similar developments from obsidian. am not suggesting that lack of certitude is bad. on the contrary, we thinks freedom for the developer is good. even so, we woulda' expected more transparency this far into development. HA! Good Fun!

bg3, or the "black hound" game, is one that many folks who followed black isle developments would wish to see get made. such a thing is impossible, but for folks who followed the bg3 development while it lasted, your comment will find only sterile and barren soil. HA! Good Fun!

one issue we does have with abrams is that he is more than willing to complete ignore internal logic. there were so many freaking errors in abrams first star trek that even Gromnir, who is not one to quibble over minutiae, were disturbed. heck, abrams tv shows such as alias and lost are perfect examples o' how the director will throw Crap into a script to achieve effect and ignore any kinda plausibility or rationality. also, we will note that for all you folks who has some interest in maintaining canon, abrams is kinda the anti-canon director. gene roddenberry would roll over in grave if he saw what star trek has become. roddenberry were very much against having focus of star trek be 'bout combat and fighting. he would also, given his rather intentional efforts to embrace multiculturalism, wonder why Khan Noonien Singh became a pasty-faced englishmen. we don't mind abrams as choice of director for star wars. star wars space fairy tale is actually a far more appropriate setting for abrams than were star trek, but dont be surprised that if by film 3 in the new series you got all kinda inconsistencies and unanswerable questions. HA! Good Fun!

we were extreme active on the boards of earlier obsidian/black isle games. the obsidian developers made a conscious effort to listen to fans and consider advice, but that quality has diminished and so has our participation. some number o' months ago we saw a poster suggest that as the poe classes were having less defined roles, such classes were less distinctive. why have classes at all if you is just gonna make them customizable to a point o' near interchangeability? at that time we had even less o' an idea o' the specific abilities o' classes than we do now. a developer responded with a curt voloesque response of, "you are wrong." ... we were not completely surprised by such a response, but we did suggest that a bit more of an explanation were warranted. the developer responded again that it were the poster, gifted1 if we recall correct, who were needing to provide more information before the developer would deign reply. it were kinda an illustrative exchange. gifted1 weren't being rude, and he didn't have more information to provide... and even if he did have access to more info, surely the developer had much accurate and current info, yes? nope, the developer in question were not looking to clarify the issue. developer goal were to show that the poster were wrong and little else. that were the last such example o' developer indifference we saw... not the first. we has posted very little since that time. the developers o' poe is choosing to do their way, which is fine. is no reason they need genuine listen to fans at this point. once the beta rolls around, we hope they at least consider player feedback, but at this point player input might not be useful if the developers have a clear idea of what they want to do and how to do it. that being said, we has witnessed the degree to which obsidian developers is embracing player feedback and it don't genuine support your position. it genuine don't matter if we is positive or negative. obsidian IS providing updates on their progress and they is giving numerous little info drops 'bout what kinda game poe will eventually be. such feedback is appreciated, but it is far less reactive than previous obsidian developments. regardless, our point above that success or fail of poe is all on obsidian is undeniable-- am taking a page out o' obsidian book and aiming for right rather than helpful. HA! Good Fun!

am not gonna go through the ridiculous reply/quote nonsense, so we will not actual respond to lion's share of your post. call it a pet peeve. it may seem like we is being a jerk, but if we use reply/quote as you did, and you follow in the same format, we will very quickly reach a point in which neither of us is actually responding to anything o' significance. it is an asinine way to respond to a post. that being said, fo:nv were fundamentally unbalanced with many weapons/skills/abilities/etc being clear superior or inferior. there is no need for a "compared to." also, the fo:nv conclusion were disappointing to any game we believes had a good or even adequate conclusion? am not seeing how you need clarification. *shrug* as for motb, that were one o' those games from obsidian that some small number of fans adore, and we just don't see it. in the george zeits thread we discussed motb shortcomings briefly... would be repeating self to do so in this thread. regardless, pointing out individual games you like from obsidian is a rather pointless observation as Gromnir already said that we also like obsidian games. we did note that obsidian has a way of self-destructing or making developments more difficult... to a comical degree. kotor2 actual had some fabulous writing. we would argue that obsidian's best written game to date were the first 2/3 of kotor2. the thing is, how does a developer fail to get it in writing when the publisher offers more time to expand the scope of the game? the torn engine blunder is another mistake we can't even fathom as it strains credulity. obsidian mistakes would be funny, if they weren't sad. HA! Good Fun!

FO:NV is superb by any standard. MotB is the least flawed NWN series game. South Park: The Stick of Truth is brilliant at what it attempts. That's three they hit out of the park, which is better than you can say for most studios as far as I'm concerned. seeing as how nwn2 and storm of zehir were obsidian games, your compliment of motb is a back-handed one at best. additionally, we got a substantial list o' serious criticisms of motb that we could share in a more appropriate fora. fo:nv were buggy, unbalanced and had the typical disappointing conclusion that is also a rather infamous trademark of obsidian/black isle games (iwd being an odd exception.) we had no urge to play the south park title from obsidian, so we cannot comment other than to observe that south park were near universal criticized even by folks who liked it as a bugfest... and, "brilliant at what it attempts" is more than a little suspicious, don't you think? *shrug* ​as we said, we like obsidian games, but that is as much in spite of what they does as anything. HA! Good Fun!

will poe have good combat? who can say? for us, poe is a put-up or shut-up development. is a LONG list o' excuses why obsidian/black isle failed to do X or couldn't do Y over the years. torn dies after considerable development time 'cause the engine black isle/interplay licensed didn't meet expectations? seriously? fo3 development got delayed over and over and over 'cause interplay needed immediate cash and iwd were seen as a quick fix. how many years? heart of winter? *shudder* endemic bugginess o' all black isle/obsidian titles were fault o' working on somebody else's engine, or not having enough time from publisher. kotor 2 were kinda a mess in parts (particularly at the end) 'cause Lucas rushed... or rather, obsidian didn't get it in writing that they were to get more time. etc. we like obsidian games, but from an outsider's pov, their efforts look a bit like the following is funny, and sad. the real mystery is that obsidian has been as successful as they is in spite o' them seeming to trip over their own feet at every possible opportunity. well, guess what? there ain't nobody to blame this time. poe is all on obsidian. if it turns out well, obsidian deserves all kinda credit. if it sucks... *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

dps, dots, aggro, cd, gcd, etc. is all terms that we first saw in reference to da:o, and all were foreign to us. developers and fans were using such shorthand with increasing frequency and eventually we were forced to self-educate so we could decipher such mumbo-jumbo. HA! Good Fun!

is having to do with the fundamental change in squad-based tactical combat in RPGs. xcom is not an rpg. stupid mmoRPG nomenclature has not permeated in a similar fashion. conversely, if you believe enoch, there is less motivation for an xcom developer to try an woo young mmorpg fans by using mmorpg staples. HA! Good Fun!

the problem with kotor 2 release were that somebody at obsidian forgot rule 1 in business negotiations: get it in writing. HA! Good Fun!

aside: we find "toon" to be silly... though kinda appropriate to upcoming wildstar game. personally, and while the term is not exclusive to mmo, we find the ubiquitous use o' "rape" to be the least appealing bit o' mmo shorthand. Gromnir does not spend much time with 20-somethings, so perhaps use o' "rape" by the current kewl generation is akin to excessive use o' "brilliant" in harry potter movies. hypothetical: college kids is watching a basketball game and somebody gets dunked 'pon. is the reflex reaction to yell that the dunkee got "raped"? we hope not. nevertheless, it seems that the absence o' the aforementioned offensive term would effectively stop innumerable mmo chat discussions and queries. ... all of which is not good fun.

swtor were our first genuine mmo experience, so perhaps we is looking at things different. when development o' da:o were progressing, we saw folks asking 'bout tank abilities and wondering which class would have the best dps. am admitting we found such discussions less than illuminating as we did not play mmos. had to learn new vocab. nevertheless, the nomenclature had a tendency to drive the discussion. inherent in a discussion o' tanks were the ability to taunt. the developers responded in the language o' the posters. rpg nomenclature were/is no longer pnp nomenclature. heck, look at josh discussions o' pillars o' eternity a bit further down on this messageboard. he is using mmo nomenclature, and as poe is 'posed to be a throwback to ie/bg/iwd roots, am doubting that the younger twitch crowd is for whom obsidian is trying to create appeal. and josh ain't a rare kinda abberation. listen to a group o' p&p gamers and They also use mmo nomenclature. it were an insidious thing-- the overthrow o' more sophisticated p&p tactics. as we is in a da thread, we believe that the tank/dps/heal distinctions were off-putting to many o' the younger fans you identify. rpg and tank/dps/heals were already the norm when da"o were being developed. action/twitch were the somewhat insulting label for the young crowd. da2, in particular, seemed like a much more focused attempt to appeal to the younger crowd... folks who liked action games wherein they could press up-down-y-y and get a sooper-dooper kill strike. in any event, more than making new games appeal to the folks familiar with mmos, and create broader appeal with mmo fans, we thinks developers realized that simplistic mmo mechanics were far easier to implement than other tactical improvements. and HA! Good Fun! ps read the pathfinder boards. paizo is trying to develop some kinda mp game, but pathfinder success were in part 'cause its rejection o' d&d 4th edition's slide towards mmo sensibilities. the thing is, you cannot read pathfinder board w/o knowing mmo nomenclature, is insidious and pervasive.