Gromnir

am a bit too close to this, so am gonna keep brief for the nonce. the parade of horribles described by the state o' oklahoma is not to be ignored. however, is not as if we are talking 'bout giving 47% of oklahoma back to native peoples-- like it or not, lands were sold in past and no fed court is gonna overturn sales or add to compensation already granted, even if compensation were unfair. am honest not certain how taxes gets handled, particular past taxes paid by natives to oklahoma for a long time. in theory, all that money were taken illegal. taxes may be easiest issue however as am expecting the tribes work out deals with oklahoma. perhaps counterintuitive, money is easiest legal issue with which to contend. is gonna be literal hundreds and perhaps thousands o' habeas corpus actions with which to contend. more numerous, and more concerning, is all the state adoptions and custody battle cases which had previous been determined, is now, arguable, meaningless. there were a similar case many years past... well, similar in terms o' implications for native peoples. oregon v. smith. a native prisoner wanted a sweat tent constructed in the prison so he might maintain hos religious observances. scalia, and the majority, effective caved to practical considerations as 'posed to strict adherence to first amendment jurisprudence and fed treaty law. woulda' caused chaos in many prisons and so Court made a decision based on real world practicalities as posed to precedent. disappointing, but understandable. very disappointing from our pov. gorsuch ignored practical and followed law. good for him. is a win for justice, but... if it weren't for all the adoption and custody cases, we could easily live with the consequences, but there is a whole lotta kids who is gonna now be pawns in revisited legal battles. adoption and custody battles is the most contentious, emotional and heart wrenching proceedings you will ever experience. murder and death penalty cases don't compare to the kinda emotion one needs endure with custody and adoption cases. will be interesting to revisit this in a year or two, and am hopeful solutions is achieved for most o' the anticipated horribles, but the tribes and Congress ain't gonna be able to make deals which bind parents involved in custody battles. parental rights is fundamental rights and Congress may only legislate so much when fundamental rights is in play. ok, so brief for Gromnir if not actual brief. HA! Good Fun!

no. as passed, were indeed criminal. were potential three years in prison for such. 2018 amendment (remember those) made the complicity o' poland aspect defamation and you don't consider amendments as part o' the act anyways, so... you don't even know your own country's laws. prime minister stated how even with amendment, people deserved to be in jail for suggesting polish complicity, but 'cause poland needs exist in an "international context," pressures from US, israel and rest o' europe would be considered and the amendment were added. fail. btw, defamation tort requires a showing o' damages. with rare exceptions, torts is NOT 'bout punishment but is 'bout making a person whole. again, a person needs be made whole. poland is an exception with making it possible for a nation to bring such a claim, for obvious reasons. in the US v. skarpy, the imagined defamation claim, the US would need show actual damages. how? in vol v. skarpy, where vol, a person (sorta) is accusing skarpy o' spurious lies 'bout vol's complicity in the holocaust, vol must show how such lies damaged him... actual damage which could conceivable be repaired by money. lost job. lost clients in business. curiously, loss o' consortium if married and vol's wife/husband leaves because o' the lies, which we always thought were kinda funny but it is a thing. such practicalities is one reason why nations like the US don't create legislation to bring defamation claims. would be tough to make any kinda damage claim w/o also writing into the statute specific damage awards... which means is no longer actual defamation. oh, and is also not a US thing because US notions o' free speech makes such claims kinda repugnant. can't defame or libel the US. period. so to review, again, no. were criminal to suggest poland were complicit in holocaust along with holocaust denial, and the US don't do this kinda nonsense, 'cause is stoopid, wong and violates free speech notions. is nothing in there 'bout Gromnir arguing how the US methods is better than... kanada's? this started with vol, so your tortured argument is becoming more difficult to untangle. am a textualists, but any kinda read o' the above has us seeing your, "what i meant," as bs. "What I meant was: arguing that your country methods are better than methods in other country while the results are not in favor of your country is not very convincing." we didn't actual do what you claim were the point o' your admonition, and recognizing how your correction took multiple posts to find its way into your posts, am calling bs. consider the gaslighting a fail. regardless, given poland's complete free speech fail, regardless and because o' 2018 amendment, as well as now multiple posts by skarp defending, any future discussion o' free speech by skarp must necessarily elicit a condemnation o' hypocrisy. congrats. you started with a two-line defense o' vol which were wholly ignorant and somehow backed yourself into a corner on free speech where you is defending poland's criminalization o' holocaust denialism and defamation o poland complicity. well played? HA! Good Fun!

accusations o' polish complicity and responsibility is presumed false, so no juice there... and you do realize what an amendment does, yes? when we speak o' the US Constitution, it includes all the amendments, 'cause, y'know, it functional rewrites and/or adds parts to the Constitution. an amendment is incorporated into the original by law. is the freaking point o' amendments. also, no, the US cannot bring a defamation claim 'gainst a person if they speak untruths about US responsibility/complicity for the holocaust. governments, pretty much everywhere in the free world, is unable to bring defamation or libel claims unless they grant themselves statutory authority to do so... and the US does not. you are describing personal torts. stress on person. governments don't count as persons. and again, poland presumes falsehood and CRIMINALIZES. defamation is a tort. duh. civil v. criminal. is a big difference 'tween criminal and civil. *sigh* your clarification is, as usual, bs. our bs receptivity factor is low, so ain't buying. is clear what you wrote and how you responded when we first chided. am suspecting you now realize how idiotic were your initial position after attempting to defend it. clarification woulda' precluded a defense as it were defending something you now claim you didn't actual say/mean. oh, and is clear Gromnir is not advocating the position o' the US, 'cause the US keeps ignoring those experts who advocate such stuff as mask mandates, so your comment is even more obvious bs. you are so punching above your weight. you made a blunder and repeated a volism. learn from the mistake as others have failed to do. HA! Good Fun!

a fun bit o obscure political calendar trivia which could become important in january. new senate is sworn in january 3, 2021. new Presidential term begins january 20(?), 2021. might have exact date a bit wrong, but is a minor detail and we didn't bother to double-check. a new senate could convict trump, preventing him from ever holding future office, even if biden gets elected. HA! Good Fun!

am not believing a nation which believes in free speech criminalizes such, but poland went a bit further, yes? is criminal to publicly claim that poland had any responsibility for or complicity in the holocaust. "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) so yeah, poland gets a fail on the free speech report card. if we use your reasoning regarding the indelible stain o' national origin, am forced to conclude this dialogue is not only moot but a horrible admission o' your own hypocrisy. HA! Good Fun!

you are also repeating vol's idiotic arguments, so congrats. now we got enough for the nursery rhyme... though is doubtful bloody mary blinds and castrates as rhyme suggests. 'pretty sure those guys, the three blind mice, were burned at the stake, but even for Gromnir has been a long time since we studied such. the act on the institute of national remembrance. ring a bell? nobody from a nation who passes such a law could have any valid input on free speech, yes? no. 'course not. this kinda stuff should be axiomatic. inexplicable, volisms is spreading like a virus, and we would agree that 'gainst vol, masks is no defense. HA! Good Fun!

so again, masks is not useless in US and uk.... and italy, france and belgium. let's just say, "much of europe?" add much o' central america and south america. african countries is well known for their populace having faith in announcements made by government, so no doubt "followed the rules" is already doomed. wanna quibble over asia? HA. okie dokie. throw you a bone. won't say most o' asia if it makes you feel better, but that is a tough call considering example o' india. trump may not know where india is, but am betting zor does. nevertheless, even if we carve out asia as somehow having used masks but never needed, you still got much o' the planet's population benefiting from masks precise 'cause o' how humans actual behave as 'posed to how zor would like. being utter ridiculous and refusing to admit it... like vol. HA! Good Fun!

good thing 'bout living in an area with near perpetual drought conditions is we usual have an excuse for letting the everyday autos get a bit dusty w/o facing social stigma or personal guilt. am recognizing our mercenary self-interest and utter hypocrisy in using drought to avoid car washings, particular as we would never allow the grand national or lesabre to be anything other than gloriously shiny. is transparent rationalization on our part to distinguish 'tween the good autos and the workhorses when it comes to task o' car washing. once august comes around, chances are we got daily brush and forest fires resulting in greasy ash befouling our vehicles... ... in our defense, with current temperatures near or beyond 100F daily, and a driveway with a whole lotta western exposure, we needs wash vehicles extreme early in the day. water and soap pretty much dries instantaneous past 'bout 9:00 am. morning is when we do our bike rides and dog walking, and we cannot walk dogs too early 'cause o' skunks and snakes and other critters which is also plentiful during the immediate pre and post dawn hours. is perhaps the only thing we got in common with those who has served. ... have also had what amounts to all night guard duty and am intimate aware o' how inexplicable difficult it is to stay awake when the world is dark and quiet and you must do naught but stand and be aware for hour after hour after hour. well that were off-tangent. anyways, no Gromnir car washing but good for hurl even if greta would likely chastise him for doing so. HA! Good Fun!

personal theory unsupported by anything: am thinking is an acquired taste thing. in the past we drank diet soda, and while it weren't fabulous, it were ok... and there were a spectrum w/i the diet soda world which ranged from undrinkable to much better. now that we don't drink diet soda, all diet sodas taste a bit like our imagination says the greyish not blood stuff which oozes from days old road kill would taste. once you steel yourself and punish your taste buds for some unspecific number o' days and months, drink coffee and you may be able to distinguish good and bad coffee. however, nuanced evaluation is only possible if you are a coffee drinker. once freed from the punishing burden o' daily coffee addiction, your body returns to baseline and once again recognizes that all coffee is in fact repellant. in general am not able to appreciate the ephemeral acquired taste. the notion we should consume more o' something we do not like in the hopes we will eventual be able to recognize its merits is an elusive concept. however, and in spirit o' full disclosure, am recalling we active disliked mushrooms as a child. things has changed. HA! Good Fun!

*chuckle* yeah it is, and isn't actual debatable, but knock yourself out anyways. go ahead and argue singular anecdotal is persuasive. "don't go out if you're coughing or sneezing" okie dokie. with large numbers o' folks already infected, high transmissibility, and previous unknown percentage o' asymptomatic people transmitting, awareness o' rules you mentions no longer guarantees safety. the actual experts make clear how best options is social distancing. is why you don't need a mask when you shelter at home. duh. mask is only for when you go out someplace and ideal social distancing may prove impossible. real world means social distancing is not always possible and initial flubs on testing and contact tracing means that in many places, unlike nz, there is infected people everywhere, unknown, who is not coughing and sneezing. but yeah, you go ahead and use singular and anecdotal and champion the guy who uses meme as support. HA! Good Fun!

complete rando grab via google, which is something we ordinarily criticize, so apologies if is wild inaccurate. Caffeine Chart am not a coffee drinker. tried once in college. tasted like water run through a rusty pipe multiple times, and we were told what we were tasting were the "good stuff." had similar thoughts as hurl-- if only way to make something so vile palatable were to add copious amounts o' dairy and sugar, then we were not seeing value. am in 50s now and we have never had a morning cup o' coffee. that said, if you need your morning fix o' caffeine, you will need drink a considerable quantity o' mountain dew or simillar to get same caffeine. the candy substitutes are amusing, but we loathe coffee flavored candy and ice cream, so... HA! Good Fun! ps is more than a few mornings on our long drive to work we would, quite literal, wake up. honest had no recollection o' any events o' the morning previous to some moment in the automobile when person behind us honked horn or some other sound jarred us into sensibility. perhaps we shoulda' at least considered adding coffee to our morning ritual.

use singular anecdotal to extrapolate generalized rule regarding effectiveness o' mask wearing is stoopid, regardless o' what is your country o' origin. the experts are not all over the place regarding the effectiveness o' masks where is significant asymptomatic community spread. asymptomatic spread o' covid-19, a novel virus, were not understood well back even in february and early march, so take quotes from experts at such times is pointless. there is general consensus that masks does help reduce spread o' virus when you got significant numbers o' asymptomatic people who you failed to tests and contact trace. will always be a few expert outliers... which is why hydroxy advocates is able to persist. where experts is all over the place is how much additional danger you is in by wearing various kinda masks. a warm and damp cloth held against your nostrils and mouth is unlikely to be offering protection from virus and quite possible increases your personal risk. folks also have a difficult time with adjusting masks, and touching your damp and warm mask with hands which may have come in contact with covid-19 is, one assumes, bad. how much is risk increased by wearing such masks? dunno. is obvious a difficult thing to study. masks are not useless 'cause vol can point to people in ______ who have avoided covid-19 w/o resorting to masks. Gromnir has never gone through chemotherapy and we has nevertheless avoided a cancer diagnosis. ergo, chemo is ineffective and pointless for treating cancer. dumb, for obvious reasons. if you live in a place where, for example, insufficient testing and inadequate contact tracing led to significant asymptomatic community spread, then general mask wearing mandates make sense and is useful. experts agree. such places includes large parts o' asia, europe, central america, south america and north america. 'course thanks to vol wacky transitive property schtick, as an american our observations regarding covid-19 is a presumptive fail. well, ok then. HA! Good Fun!

is no way to respond to vol w/o sounding like a 100n. wacky. defending vol wacky? also wacky. HA! Good Fun!

the comments is wacky for any place, including kanada, which has experienced community spread. masks, particular cloth masks, as a means o' preventing the wearer from contracting covid-19 is useless and perhaps worse than useless. we tried to point out how masks don't protect the wearer to our +80-year-old aunt in socal and am knowing she didn't get it. vol comments is generalized 'bout usefulness o' masks and they complete miss point. 'ccording to vol, because is no mandate to wear masks where he lives, and virus has not spread, is proof masks is useless in US and elsewhere. uses a freaking meme as support for his position. wacky. if vol were to opine 'bout mask mandates in a place where the virus has negligible footprint and thus asymptomatic community spread is a non-concern, then he would have a point and not be wacky, but such is not the case. misrepresenting vol? why on earth would you do so? HA! Good Fun!

good call. brian herbert likely deserves the modern crown... figurative. previous Presidential political families such as grant and adams and taylor predate the kennedys and john adams, in particular, were not shy in promoting his theories 'bout the benefits o' inherited occupations. the thing is, john quincy actual were capable and arguable the smartest evar US President, but other family members weren't so noteworthy. christopher tolkien were probable a role model for brian herbert, though christopher edited posthumous works o' his father rather than trying to create anything new... am not sure if that makes christopher more or less admirable? however, jaden smith has just gotten started in his career and he has already produced an impressive volume o' schlock-- is only in his early 20s. jaden smith still claims to be an actor and musician in spite of all evidence to contrary. HA! Good Fun! ps is a whole lotta college and pro football coaches who, in spite o' the ultra competitive nature o' the biz, only have their jobs 'cause o' daddy. weird.

Graham says he will call Mueller to testify before Senate panel about Russia probe am admitting we don't see why in july o' 2020 graham has changed his mind-- we could make guesses, but would be pure conjecture. what does the senator believes he and the gop will gain from this and what is different today than the previous +11 months? curious. HA! Good Fun!

the vast majority o' folks attending college is kids, least from our pov. congrats btw on spreading your curious faith to a new generation, or not. think you convinced at least three? HA! Good Fun!

*sigh* it wasn't an example. still missing point. you even has recognized it were not an example but rather a hypothetical. an example is a specific instance which models general rule. you did not share and example but rather created a hypothetical so extreme it made any kinda analogy to a general rule utter meaningless. going in circles and repeating. can repost your hypothetical, but wouldn't help. HA! Good Fun!

which is our freaking point. if you use a hypothetical to expose some kinda truth it can't be so implausible and extreme as to invalidate. you may not see the problem 'cause you do frequent indulge in ghoulishly implausible hypotheticals as justification for something you believe in. they are gonna take away our guns and freedom because __________ is just the first step onto the slippery slope towards inevitable chaos. be better than vol. HA! Good Fun!

name three jewish kids you personal know who has come home from college and expressed holocaust denialism to their grandparents who suffered through the holocaust. HA! Good Fun!

it is a hypothetical comparison and we cannot think o' any living examples, but we don't doubt there has been a couple. again, the example is extreme. you purposeful made extreme so as to make a point. the extremity makes the example o' negligible value... might as well use examples o' brutal mating practices o' unicorns to make some kinda point 'bout domestic violence. HA! Good Fun!

@Amentep told ya. HA! Good Fun!

likely genesis Two Texas police officers fatally shot while responding to a domestic disturbance if you are confused by vol description v. what is reported in the link, see our previous posts regarding vol transitive property quirks. HA! Good Fun!

oh, that's part o' it. a friday stone commute distracts his base from the 137k dead with hospitalizations and positivity rates climbing. Three Weeks After Trump's Tulsa Rally, Oklahoma Reports Record High COVID-19 Numbers so yeah, trump wants a distraction... but why stone and not any other fabricated distraction? HA! Good Fun! ps (added) as proof trump is incapable o' learning, use stone and flynn and other such stuff as distractions is utter pointless with covid which is not gonna just go away. the economic and human devastation brought about US ineptitude in handling the pandemic is not like ivanka's private email blunders. even if we are talking 'bout stone on monday and tuesday, by end of next week, US death total will be right 'round 140k and that is what most +60-year-old fox viewers with comorbidities will be worried 'bout.

stop. just... stop. you gotta realize this kinda argument has zero substance and yet is the only reason we can see for your willingness to overlook how stone were convicted o' multiple counts o' lying to federal investigators (who woulda' thought that would be a crime?) impeding a Congressional inquiry ( well, the last few years has shown us it is ok if the President obstructs Congress, and stone were pretty much working for trump. therefore...) and threatening witnesses with death... honest we can't find a sarcastic way to spin that one. you? worse than a drug dealer? well, fed drug crimes have pretty steep sentences with minimum five years for most offenses. kid gets caught in an airport with 50 grams o' meth he acquired in europe and were gonna sell to his frat buddies who all chipped in so he could make purchase. stone worse than frat dude drug dealer? 'cause frat dude is likely looking at minimum 10 years 'cause o' high volume. stone were getting off relative ez by comparison, you know with his freaking death threats o' witnesses and all. maybe fed ain't your thing. common law? worse than arson? heck, nobody got hurt and were just an old abandoned building which burned. sexual assault? kiddie porn? toxic waste dumping? tell us how witness tampering ain't considered a real crime in sa, particular when tampering includes believable threats o' serious physical violence and/or death? start making a list and let bruce judge which crimes is real and which ain't? no thanks. so stop. oh, and am not particular upset with trump. after three years we expect corruption and mendacity from the President. am upset with bruce and those like you. each new implausible trumpism is marginalized or ignored. somehow each new violation o' law and public trust is no big deal to bruce. others seem to believe this kinda thing happens with every other President but somehow the deep state were out to get trump so only difference is we know 'bout trump... and at least he stands for good American values, right? is not trump who has us wasting energy 'cause am knowing he is a lost cause. is bruce who disappoints.