[gamefront.de on kotor2]

They're prestige classes. That show tell anyone who has played pnp Dnd, or NWN exactly how they work.

It doesn't tell us how they work because we have no idea what these classes are. They could make your character totally different to what you started with.

 

And, how can the new classes be the oppiste of the old ones when the old classes were open to both good and evil characters?

The new classes are Sith (as well as Jedi), so I think K2 is going to distinguish between the two more than KotOR did. The old classes might start you neutral, then you choose a prestige class later depending on whether you're light or dark, and what Jedi class you are.

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

So you choose them later rather than picking one when you complete your training?

I'm not sure how it works exactly. But from the sound of it, the new classes - like Sith Lord, Jedi Master, are only available at high level. You apparently begin KotOR2 as a Jedi, so I imagine your class is chosen when you select your character, and prestige classes only when you meet certain criteria -- say, good/evil.. guardian/consular, etc.

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

The new Jedi and Sith are prestige classes, only available at high level.

[KOTOR 2 screenshot and KOTOR details]

^^I guess that's confirmation then^^

 

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

Why is it such a great leap of thinking that an evil "spy" (as you could call the Sentinel) is an assasin?

"Jedi Sentinel: This Jedi ferrets out deceit and injustice, bringing it to light".

 

That isn't my description of a sentinel, it comes straight from the manual.

 

It's too early to tell whether the Sith classes are unique, or just evil Jedi with the same abilities. It seems pointless to make Sith if they are just corrupted Jedi. They might as well reuse guardian/consular/sentinel.

The fact that there's entirely new classes for Sith suggests that they are more than dark Jedi. That's what I'm hoping anyway. It would be boring if you were a Sith in name only.

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

Sith Assassin= Jedi Sentinel

Hmm, are those classes really alike?

 

Jedi Sentinel: "This Jedi ferrets out deceit and injustice, bringing it to light".

 

Sounds like the exact opposite of an assassin.

 

As for Sith Lord & Marauder -- they do seem like evil versions of Consular and Guardian, but I imagine their feats, powers and stats will be totally different from regular Jedi. It's impossible to know for sure until we have more info.

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

The new classes looks like they are just "evil" versions of the old classes:

Perhaps, but it shows that evil characters are being taken seriously rather than simply choosing a Jedi class, then becoming "dark" with a few moral choices and taking dark force powers. You could never truly be a Sith in KotOR, except near the end.

 

In K2, it sounds like you'll be able to join the Sith and choose your class, much like when you become a Jedi on Dantooine. If those classes are unique and not just evil copies of KotOR-Jedi I think most people will be happy.

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

Plays 5 years after first game,you are an outcast Jedi returning back home,the Republic is about to collapse.

Well, that is a surprise. I didn't believe the talk of 1000 years later - a sequel isn't really a sequel unless it has some link to the original, but I never expected it to continue the first story. Yeah, I'm surprised, but kinda happy if true.

 

I wonder if the "Republic is about to collapse" is due to the actions of Revan? I mean, wouldn't that ruin the lightside ending? Maybe it was all just a devious trick by Revan, to kill Malak and make the republic think he's a hero, and then simply turn on them when their guard is down.

[KOTOR 2 screenshot and KOTOR details]

I hope that Revan being in KotOR2 is some kind of crap, what isn't true.

I used to think that way, but with the immense popularity of Revan it's common sense to have the character appear in the sequel. You don't need a portrait or voice. Revan didn't speak in KotOR either, so just put him in the robes and mask again..

[KOTOR 2 screenshot and KOTOR details]

The only character to return to your cast is T3-M4

 

While HK-47 will not return

Disappointing! But maybe T3 can be a useful character this time. A sequel should improve what was weak in the original, not simply take the best elements and rehash them.

[gamefront.de on kotor2]

So, you play a Jedi again. And not only that, you even start as one... That is going to piss people off who don't want to be a Jedi. It's not a surprise though. Assuming all this info is accurate of course. The new classes sound cool, especially Sith Lord, Sith Marauder & Sith Assassin!

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

Another great example of combat avoidance is the Sand People. This quest, which is necessary to complete Tatooine, allows a peaceful solution. Even though I play darkside I always talk to these guys, otherwise I'd be helping Czerka corporation eradicate them, and I don't like Czerka. You even sneak your way to their enclave by wearing Sand People robes. Combat is hardly mandatory with options like these. I think most situations give you at least a shot at diplomacy. The only problem is that your enemies don't want to talk.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

an option to remove the mandatory dull combat, for non combat oriented character would be a good idea.

Is the combat really dull? I'm trying to think of a situation where it is and I can't. It's exactly what I'd expect Star Wars combat to be like - cinematic. The only enemies that force you into battle are those that you'd expect to, either because they're hostile to begin with or simply can't be reasoned with, like Malak and the Sith.

 

There are many occasions in KotOR when a non-violent solution is possible. You can avoid (or create) so many fights by talking that you can almost play a diplomatic character. Take the family feud on Dantooine, you can solve all their problems and send them merrily on their way, or you can be evil (like me) and get them to kill each other.

 

In fact, I'm surprised at just how many chances you have to talk. Naturally, the results of your diplomacy might have unwanted side-effects, for example; the 2 Rakata settlements on the Unknown World. Siding with one group forces you to kill the other. A peaceful solution would've been nice but it's reasonable to expect a belligerent tribe not wanting to talk.

 

You can double cross the Sith, betray people you've made a deal with, or even turn one darkside NPC back to the light.. all by talking. Combat is not quite as mandatory as you make it sound.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

Koriban was amzing. Taris was very vanila though it was the only place that let you play the character class you chose at the start , so it has that in its favour.

Yeah, that's true, but most people level up after Taris to gain more Jedi levels. They must not like their class...

In fact, that might be a good thing for the sequel - don't allow people to store their levels. I do it myself and feel like I'm cheating.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

Why you insist on asking me this after i initially said i believed this wasn't about pleasing hardcore fans also remains a mystery.

I don't insist on asking you anything. You started this whole discussion with your reply to my original post. I was just making a general comment.

 

Thats their decision. I don't know where it would take them. But i honestly doubt they'd stop trying to improve their games, regardless of platform.

Yeah, but what if you don't like those improvements?

 

Tri's point was that certain things could be improved, and he gave the example of Taris as a good example of there being hope for Bioware to improve their gameplay in certain instances.

You know, I guess this is where people are different. I thought Taris was boring as hell. Korriban was a much better example of what I liked. Horses for courses.

 

Even if i did thought it was stale, explain to me how that would make me hardcore - and something other than simply disagreeing with the masses, as you imply, please.

Well, it wouldn't make you hardcore but it would mean that you're in the minority, and that's almost the same thing when it comes to influencing Bioware. The "masses" continue to buy games that they like. If Bioware produces a clunker they'll stop buying. Simple as that.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

Hasn't Baldur's Gate sold the most copies over any other game they have made? That happens to be the only Bioware game I like too. Oh well...

I like Baldur's Gate too, but I love KotOR. In fact, other than Bioware's few attempts at an action game I've enjoyed almost every game they've made.

 

I think BG was a huge success because of the dearth of high quality RPGs. It's a great game but BG2 was better.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

I think this is hardly about pleasing hardcore gamers; after all, they have improved their game design over the years, and their games are still financial successes, despite what 'hardcore' gamers tell them. Its only in their interest to improve and fine tune their game design; there's only so much a company can present in the form of stale gameplay or stagnant design choices over and over and over until it bites them hard.

Ok, that is what you said.

They (Bioware) have improved their game design over the years, but what if that is taking them further away from hardcore gamers? Maybe that's the reason for their financial success, not targeting the hardcore. Improvements are all fine and dandy but in what direction would they go? What if they prefer the console route - lots of action plus cinematics and cut-scenes? The "stale" gameplay you speak of is anything but stale to the people who enjoy it, or "stagnant design" when they bought KotOR by the truckload. If you think it is, maybe you're one of those "hardcore" gamers?

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

err, do I have to reply to all that above? Me thinks you're taking this just a bit too seriously.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

As i answer this, i have to question if its possible to fudge up the interpretation of what i said even more.

I replied to what you said; so sorry that you didn't like the answers.

My point was that Bioware are making games that are popular. That's all there is to it really. They don't need to make changes for a vocal minority.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

Its only in their interest to improve and fine tune their game design; there's only so much a company can present in the form of stale gameplay or stagnant design choices over and over and over until it bites them hard.

Yes, and what if Bioware's "game design" takes them further away from the hardcore minority? You can't argue with success. KotOR was anything but stale. I'm a jaded RPG gamer and KotOR was like a breath of fresh air.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

If you would like to make the comparison with KotOR, what I really want to get rid of is all of the mundane mandatory combat that add nothing to the game but boredom.

The mandatory combat is there for a reason - to increase your level, of course. You always gain far more experience for killing than diplomacy, and let's not forget the booty. Most games have "phat lewt" and KotOR is no exception.

What makes you think that everyone found the "mundane mandatory combat" to be boring? I didn't. I enjoyed it for the spectacle alone. A game that actually felt like Star Wars. KotOR's incredible success speaks for itself.

Obsidian should improve a few things but no major changes.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

Obsidian would be unwise to change KotOR too much. The game has achieved its popularity because of what it is - an enjoyable Star War RPG. You don't need to be an RPG veteran to play this game. It could be better but not at the expense of what makes it KotOR. The combat will be pretty similar - cinematic battles which capture the Star Wars feel... and I'd expect a lot of fighting, not much in the way of pacifism.

 

I believe Taris, with a couple of modifications, really showed hope for Bioware.

Well, does Bioware really need "hope" when they're selling millions of copies? I think they'd rather continue their current strategy than trying to please a small minority of hardcore gamers. Sorry, but sales figures are what counts. Bioware made a game that sold well, they must be doing something right.

[What I want to see in KOTOR II]

Why does Yoda walk around as though he's a cripple, but then fight like Sonic the Hedgehog on steroids? Is this to lull his opponents into a false sense of security? Nah, George thought it would look "cool", that's all.

He took a risk with the Yoda scene and did better than I expected but the entire concept is stupid. This is where Lucas should have exercised restraint. Just because CGI makes it possible doesn't mean you throw common sense out the window.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

I'm not sure about that one.. One of the things I enjoy most about the JRPG's are those three stage end boss battles.

I'll make an exception for Japanese RPGs. They are unique.

I love end battles. Really, I do! However, some games totally negate your powers and I can't stand that.

 

One of my favorite Jap RPGs is Seiken Densetsu 3 (SOM2). You always have a chance against every boss no matter how powerful they are. None of your own powers are rendered useless, you simply have to use tactics against your opponent.

 

When your only way of winning is pre-determined tactics it's more like blind luck. Big 'M' of HotU has stumped quite a few people. Certain builds are useless against this guy (unless you know his name!), but that's hardly fair when you've played through the entire game just to be humiliated by the end guy.

[Thoughts on Mandatory Combat]

The RPG "end boss" should be toned down also.

 

Enemies shouldn't be immune to your most powerful attacks. It's a cheap tactic. After playing through the game you deserve a reward. I'm sick of playing games where you spend ages improving your skills but the end boss is immune to them. That's no fun. If you have a spell or power which kills, then let the end guy save or die. I would find that rewarding. HotU gives you that chance, apparently.

 

In KotOR I crushed Malak easily but I had to use energy shields and health packs and I'd rather beat him using my skills alone. Luke didn't fire up a shield against Vader, now did he?

Malak is also a cowardly cheat - he runs away every time you give him a beating to replenish his energy. And he was immune to most force powers. Pathetic! I'm sure you can have a rewarding fight without the enemy 'cheating'.

 

btw, I think a "pacifist" build would be no fun at all, especially in a Star Wars RPG. If you talk your way out of every fight what kind of challenge would there be? RPGs avoid this by having NPCs attack regardless of what you do and I agree with that. Persuasion is an option to avoid conflict, nothing more.