Cubiq

[Description of the issue] Loading a save game will considerably weaken the enemy. [DETAILED list of steps to reproduce the issue AND what to look for] Start a new game from scratch and selecting the Hard difficulty, choosing any class. Save the game, it doesn't matter if you use normal saving or quick save. Attack the first enemy you see and the game will work as intended. Now load the save game (normal load or quickload) and all enemies in the area will become extremely weak, both in dealing damage and receiving damage. Here is a video before loading: Here is a video after loading a save game: [Other remarks / Comments] If you attack the enemy they will also receive a lot more damage from all party members. Your party members will also barely receive any damage after loading. If feels like the game difficulty has jumped to Easy, however the difficulty slider has not changed, it is still set on Hard. Switching it around does not fix the problem. Closing the game and starting it again doesn't help, once you save, that save is corrupted for ever. I will keep this thread updated when i have more time with more testing, like starting the game on different difficulties, trying it in different areas, with different character background stories. etc.

I know, i'm the one who found them, posted the videos and reported them. Yet from all i've seen i'm not convinced that just fixing those bugs will help in the long run, if you expect the enemy AI to be at least a little bit smarter.

First of all I'll point out that i support Sensuki's suggestion on allowing attack wait time to recharge while moving, as i don't think you can abuse the system with it, so that solves kiting. I already pointed out, things are not equal. The enemy has greater numbers, affliction melee attacks, greater defenses, faster running speed, not to mention other mechanics like able to heal to full health in combat. (yes it already happened to me) Not really, spells barely do any damage. And you actually need to put some tactics in to it to work. Currently the enemy simply runs at the first thing they see, so you can already make use of the spells most of the time as they clump up, yet this don't unbalance the combat. Once the AI becomes smart enough to target members at the back, they will spread out more and at that point area attack spells will become completely useless. So what's better? Keeping the AI dumb, so you can actually use some of the spells? Or adding a mechanic where you can compensate for the enemy becoming smarter. No you can't, the buffs aren't going to save you from the bonus disengagement attacks get and the reduced deflection the barbarian gets, try it if you don't believe me. (see image below) The cone knockdown is pointless because the whole reason for you to reposition is so you can clump them up in the first place, where you would then be able to use aoe attacks, like cone knockdown. The sprint gives you -20 deflection Let's say that there's a talent that puts this penalty deflection to 0 Now you need to give him some armor and a shield so that they will actually be able to receive some damage. (trust me you need it) So what you ended up is with a gimped fighter that doesn't have defender mode. Here's the result on Hard difficulty: http://i.imgur.com/C69E3N3.jpg This is a Barbarian with the BB fighter's armor and shield, versus a couple of beetles that Sensuki has been complaining are too easy. I don't have Sprint activated so there is no deflection penalty and i have 15 in intellect, which gives +5 deflection. (i can upload a video if you don't believe it) Getting stopped by a disengagement attack isn't that big of a deal. The damage is. Edit: i think i just found a bug where the difficulty of the game sets to easy once you use quickload. The slider on the difficulty doesn't actually move however after you reload you start doing x2 damage and the enemy is only doing 0.5-2 damage to you even on disengagement attacks. Maybe this is why people have been complaining why the game feels too easy. I'll need to do some more testing.

well okey the barbarian was just a side mention, obviously some of the other abilities would need to be tweaked if they gave it to the barbarian as well. As for why use sprint versus a 50% speed reduction modal ability? Well to get to the enemy faster. I don't think things are really balanced at the moment. For instance the Priest has a level 1 spell that wraps your character in a bubble, and basically protects him from nearly all physical harm (except bleed effects, which lose a lot of power since the fighter can regenerate during combat) Casting this spell on your tank every fight will currently allow him to basically never get damaged. Yet the spell needs to be there so that it can be used to protect your weaker party members if they get in a jam.

The mechanic is there to help you hold the line with a single character and it's currently not even doing that, it's not there just for a restriction on classes. And as i said, people have been complaining of the fighter being too plain. So now you have something else to do with it. And it's not like it's going to make any other mechanic obsolete. You will still be required to use escape abilities by other party members. The enemy also doesn't seem to have the stamina mechanic and can heal itself fully, so arguing what it can do to you and what you can do to it is pointless. Currently the enemy is so dumb it will simply attack the first thing it sees. That's the only reason the engagement mechanic works atm. It completely falls apart once enemies start attacking from different directions. Oh god i would like it removed, but i just don't think it will happen, so here i am making suggestions

Sprint is mainly intended to use as a offensive ability to reach the enemy at the back very fast. If you're going to use it as a an escape ability, or anything in the above i mentioned you are going to eat a lot of damage with that reduced deflection, especially if you have 2-3 enemies on you.

I feel that being nailed to the ground as soon as your characters Engage each other takes away a lot of depth from combat, making you rely too much on initial positioning before combat and too little during combat. This is why i would like it if they gave the fighter (and maybe the barbarian) a modal ability, that would reduce your movement speed by maybe 50% but would allow you to move freely across the battlefield without suffering any disengagement attacks. (perhaps include it in the defender mode) I think the animation could be taken from the stealth mechanic, with a little tweaking, so that while they are moving they would be walking backwards and not forwards, (as in carefully backing up, not allowing anyone to get a free shot at them). -First reason, I feel this would be good because you could then try to reposition your enemies, to be more susceptible to certain spell attacks like the wizard's Necrotic Lance, where it hits everything in a straight line. Currently if 2 enemies position in front and at the back of your fighter, then the only way can hit both of them, is if you also hit your fighter in between. Also you could position them so that they would now be standing next to each other so they could be hit by a fireball. -Also the second reason is because currently there is very little you can do if your fighter gets trapped by engaging 1 enemy and another manages to slip through (by either bad positioning, or they just have a successful concentration check) -And thirdly, this will perhaps make fighter more interesting as it will allow them to have something to do, beside knock people down and eat damage. Edit: It sadly just occurred to me that this could cause problems with kiting as enemies do not recharge their attack timers while moving, allowing you to keep movin and never getting hit, so perhaps adding Sensuki's suggestion on allowing the attack to recharge while moving would also be a good idea. Unless someone has a better idea one of fixing this.

I just checked the v278 beta and it's the same there. There is no safe zone, you get hit immediately. But like i mentioned before, i don't think having a safe zone will actually allow you to move at all most of the time. Because 80% of the battle one of your characters will be engaged by a minimum of 2 people. So that means even if all enemies have a safe zone, you will only be able to move where they overlapping, or you will get hit by at least 1 disengagement attack. The ONLY way i think this mechanic would be of use, is if they do the following: When you try to move away from your opponent they will stand still for a short time, so that if you go too far, they will hit you with a disengagement attack. However if you move only to the edge of the disengagement zone and wait a second there, then the enemy will move close to you again. Then you can move to the edge of the zone again, and after a second the enemy will move toward you again, to close the gap. This way you can keep moving bit by bit across the battlefield. However for this to work the disengagement zone would have to be unreasonably large, and if you count in game lag, you would probably end up with characters hitting disengagement attacks 5 meters away, so that might cause problems for the "sticky" mechanic. Also it falls apart when you are engaged by 3 enemies, as you can only move to the edge of maximum 2 at a time, the way geometry works.

If you increase the stamina, then the damage of spells would also need to increase.

I agree that they should perhaps look for other alternatives to the engagement mechanic over just nailing everyone to the ground as soon as they get engaged, however i feel that it's too late in development for that. One can only hope it's not. Maybe they can just make disengagement hits less punishing? I think i remember getting hit once by a 64 damage disengagement crit, which just makes you think: "Let's not try to move during combat ever again"

We'll I'll admit it's a double edge argument on the release time. If they push out an unstable build that keeps crashing then they will lose a week of feedback. It's a shame i can't test combat, but if they feel that the build isn't stable then i think they shouldn't release it.

I won't be testing combat anymore untill the next update, so i can see what is actally a bug, what isn't, and what direction do they even plan to go down. Nothing i posted in the bug report forum got a confirmation on wheter or not that is intended.

I think i was reading about a similar error on the internet just a day ago. Try logging out of your Steam account and logging back in. (the one installed on your PC) From what i read, i think the game can't recognise that you are logged in. If that doesn't work, try reinstalling the game. If that doesn't work try reinstalling Steam.

I'll stop highjacking this thread with this last post I just need to point out i made a mistake when i wrote this: In this scenario no one will suffer disengagement attacks. For you to do a disengagement attack on the enemy you need to stand still. So if your fighter was standing still and the 3 goblins ran past him he would hit them (or at least he should be able to if it wasn't so bugged), with the current mechanic. If 1 goblin was standing still and the other 2 ran past the fighter and the fighter was also running past them them, then only the single goblin that was standing still will hit your fighter. The mechanics are currently so screwed up, i have no idea what was even intended with this anymore. When the bugs get fixed, you probably will not be able to pass each other in this scenario, without an engagement, even if everyone is moving. I found out that you NEED to have a mechanic where you can engage someone while you are moving so that you can actually catch up to someone that is fleeing. (The "sticky" mechanic) As shown in the example here: What they probably need to do, is just not allow disengagement attacks while moving.

I'll just leave this video here. EDIT: I screwed up on the video coding, if the quality is crap, follow the link to the youtube website, to watch it there. I just realized that the engagement should be allowed while moving, as this is a mechanic that allows you to catch up to a fleeing enemy. (me in this case) What should not be allowed though is doing a disengagement attack while moving. EDIT: I forgot to put it in the title. This whole thread shows the videos from the version 301

I do not know whether or not this is intended [Description of the issue] Once your character is engaged with the enemy, he will not be allowed to move in any direction, as he will get immediately hit by a disengagement attack. There is no safe zone for your character to move, once engaged. [DETAILED list of steps to reproduce the issue AND what to look for] This can be tested on any enemy in the game. [Expected behaviour] There should be a engagement circle around your opponent, where your character can move around safely without getting hit by a disengagement attack.

[Description of the issue] -Sometimes when you begin combat with a Stone Beetle they not realize they are within attack distance, so they keep trying to teleport to the enemy. -Buggy animation [DETAILED list of steps to reproduce the issue AND what to look for] -Sadly it's hard to reproduce -Whether or not it will be bugged is rather random. Sometimes they realize they are within attack distance, sometimes they do not. After the video ends, i left it like that for another 30 seconds and then the beetle finally realized, on their own, they are actually withing attack distance, and started attacking my character. [Expected behavior] Teleporting should stop, once within attack range. Animation should also happen when burrowing, and there should be clipping with the terrain, so that it looks better, when coming out of the ground. [Files]

Ooookey... I did some more testing and found out that once you get engaged, you can't move safely at all. If you move even a millimeter you will get hit by a disengagement attack, no matter if you are trying to move closer or further away. It's like this vs all enemies. Sensuki says that it wasn't like this in the previous beta version, so maybe it's a bug.

I'm not sure. Normally no as the AI is pretty stupid and you have a preemptive strike vs 99% of the fights so you just position your wizard at the back. However if someone was playing a front line wizard with armor, then maybe it's possible.

I don't know the distance between where i target the spell and where it lands is pretty huge. First i thought it was some kind of mechanic where it detonates as soon as someone gets it's path. But it doesn't seem to be. Then i thought maybe i accidentally targeted an enemy character instead of the ground and so the spell location moved as the enemy moved, so i became extra careful of even that, yet it still sometimes lands right in the middle of everyone fighting, hitting both my party members and enemies alike.

Ok i also got a question, does a miss have anything to do with why my fireball sometimes hits my allies even though i was careful with the cast location?

Also i think it would make the world alive if some of the encounters had just a few lines of text, that defines their personality. For example in the Dyrford crossing map, there's a something similar to a dryad near the right edge of the screen, with those 2 hulking swamp elementals. I don't really know what he/she is doing there, but if they simply say something like: "How dare you desecrate my grove with your presence. I had thought the villagers learned better than to approach my sanctuary again. It seems i need to remind them again how frightening my wrath can be!" Then you learned that you entered a grove by accident and that the villagers had a history with her at some point in time. Instead of being just red circle for you to wack at. Same goes for those weird elf like humanoid that are standing near the entrance to the ruins in Stormwall Gorge Maybe give them a few lines of arrogant banter before they attack? It's not much but you would at least have a small understanding of what kind of opponents you just faced, etc. Same goes for those feral druids. What are they even doing there?

If i remember correctly Bg1 had a lot of random characters in the wilderness, that you could just talk to and wouldn't actually lead in to any quests. Perhaps giving the game less encounters and just adding a friendly NPC in the middle of the forest, that can tell you a bit about the area, or the monsters, or even where he is headed. would allow to make the areas feel not so empty yet not so full of encounters.

That's actually a good question, i'll have to try that when i have the time, however it's curretly so bugged i don't know if the results will be correct. Yes, i don't know about polearms, but the fighter's defender mode will increase the engagement circle (danger zone) of the fighter, allowing him to engage enemies from further away. However i don't know how this affects the distance of the disengagement attack. Will this allow the enemy to have more freedom in moving around the fighter or not? It's hard to test because the enemy barely moves around and the bugs cause the disengagement attack to lag and land something like 5 meters away if the enemy is moving away. You can see it in the first video i posted, where my figher makes the animation of getting hit, which was cause by the boar many meters away. (I'll point out again that that's bugged, it should have been the boar that got hit not my fighter.) Yes now that i think about it a Shift+Left_mouse_click for safe moving wouldn't be so bad, if it worked the other way around. If they made it so that if you click normally you would move normally, however if you shift+click, your character would only try to move within the opponent's engagement circle (danger zone). This is actually something i would be happy with, since it's fast and doesn't delay normal moving mechanics. (How well this will work is a different question though, because of possible bugged pathing AI)

Ok before we go to in to whole "what makes sense and what doesn't" i'll just point out that i know it doesn't make sense. I don't actually even like the mechanic, so you have to take it up with Josh on that one. I'm just trying to explain, on what Josh was trying to do with this mechanic, since it's so buggy you can't actually tell just from the videos. In this scenario no one will suffer disengagement attacks. For you to do a disengagement attack on the enemy you need to stand still. So if your fighter was standing still and the 3 goblins ran past him he would hit them (or at least he should be able to if it wasn't so bugged), with the current mechanic. If 1 goblin was standing still and the other 2 ran past the fighter and the fighter was also running past them them, then only the single goblin that was standing still will hit your fighter. I'm not exactly sure what you mean? I'll just point out again that the videos i posted before are showing a lot of bugs, so you shouldn't take them as an example of what was actually intended with the engage mechanic. If Steve and the goblin will be fighting, they will both be engaging each other. The reason is because both are standing still. Here's a different situation: Your fighter is fighting 4 goblins, and has a defensive mode ability active, which allows him to engage 3 enemies; then the 4 goblins can engage the fighter, however the fighter can engage only 3 goblins. (the engagement doesn't happen both ways, it's a 1 way mechanic, so 1 character can engage the other character, but the other won't necessarily engage the first one if the conditions aren't met, like standing still, or able to engage more enemies, etc.) So this means if any of the 3 goblins that the fighter has engaged, try to leave the engagement circle of the fighter, then they will get hit by a disengagement attack. HOWEVER, the 4th goblin, who the fighter has not engage (since he can only engage maximum of 3 enemies) tries to leave, then he will be able to get away without getting hit, even though he is also attacking the fighter. But if the fighter tries to run away, he will get hit by all 4 goblins. As for the knockdown mechanic, it works like this: If 1 of the goblins knocks down the fighter, then all 4 goblins can run away without getting hit, while he is on the ground. Yes, sadly "very carefully", this is Joshe's plan atm. (i know, it's ****) But you don't even have to worry about that, because, if you are engaged with more than 1 opponent (which is most of the time) then you can't move at all, because trying to circle around 1 character, will cause you to get a disengagement hit from the other. It's a mess 1 way or another. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Well it is sort of a "stick" system. I'm not sure how it works vs multiple opponents, as i haven't tested it yet, however versus a single opponent it works like this: If you try to leave the disengagement circle, you will get hit by a disengagement attack. This attack does a check versus your Concentration, to see if this will cause you to perform a "stagger" animation, which will temporarily force you to stand in still. If you fail the check, then the pursuer has enough time to move after you and engage you again, which will cause your character to completely stop again. Now you have to order your character to try to disengage again, get hit by a disengagement hit again and hope that the concentration check will win this time, for you to get away. You will keep getting re-engaged until you make a successful concentration check, if you don't use any escape abilities. This is what i mean when i said your disengagement can fail. Escape abilities like the Barbarian's Sprint, can ignore the "stagger" check; however you still get hit. If i understand correctly, you would like to give everyone a disengagement button that would work like the Barbarian's Sprint, which can ignore the concentration check, when moving away? @Hormalakh My solution is to scrap the whole engagement mechanic, since it's clearly going to be massively buggy. But i'm sure no one wants to talk about that. The NWN series had the same thing, with exactly the same problems. Sometimes when you try to run around your opponent, you would get hit instantly by 2-4 attacks of opportunity, because the position checking was buggy, and your pathing AI would screw it up. I was against the idea the first time Josh mentioned, however no one really listened, so i'm not even going to bother with that argument anymore. It's fine if you post your suggestions, i'm just telling you what i think would cause problems, based on my personal experience with the beta.