UpgrayeDD

"Should critical hits cause additional effects like blind, stun, knockout..etc?" That sentance isn't asking if critical hits and misses should be in the game. Please reread the OP because this was never about whether or not they should be in the game period The person making the post already takes it as a given weither that crits will be in the game. And rightly so as criticals are in more than 95% RPGs. The thread is not about having crits its about adding the extra effects. This thread and the people post were always talking about adding those effects. And I certainly was never advocating the removal of criticals. In fact I indeed like criticals and think the way they are in most games work well. But "this" threads suggestions to empower them are in my opinion not good ones and would only serve to hurt and not improve the gameplay.

In what world would needed to head back through a dungeon to town to repair your broken weapons and then travel back to the place you were before be fun? Thats like saying everytime in the game you got beat up you should need to have a doctor see it before you can weild a sword. Would it add some form of realism? sure. would it add to the flow and atmosphere of the game? sorry but again I'd have to say no. and if I'm not gonig to waste my time going back to town I'll waste my time reloading. so if wasting time was the goal of allowing this them * clap clap clap* let do equiptment breaks. I wasn't responding to your specific rhetorical question involving 1% crit chance being too low. You're suggesting, in the gist of everything you've said, that having status effects on criticals would be horrific, because it's already bad enough that criticals exist in the first place. If a chance for the enemy to get some boost is inherently bad, no matter what the percentage chance, or any of the other mathematical balancing factors, then why does it matter if it's a stun or extra damage? I've acknowledged the potential cons of the mechanic (all dependent upon how it's balanced and implemented), and I (and several others) are simply trying to point out perfectly valid potential pros of the mechanic. I never said "If you do things just like all other games have but add status effects to crits with absolutely no other balancing, it's totally the perfect system with no flaws." again your missing the point of what I'm saying. I like having crits and automiss as things in the game. I think they are fine as is. Always missing an opponent or criting them is powerful enough as is. They don't need boosts to help them out. And play do gime a list of the pros because I never once saw them. I merely saw people saying this is how it should be done. I see you trying to fix something thats not broke. and in your attempt to fix things that aren't broken you end up breaking something which then needs to be fixed. IE if we do these things to crits and automiss then we need to nerf how often they happen. One of you biggest beefs with me seems to be that "you have no way of knowing". well I don't know for certain I am only speaking from experience. Well I've played games with weapons and armor breaking and I've played games with crowd control effects. And I know what its like to lose control of a character for a long period of time. And the devs are likely going to give all if not most of those effects as class abilities in some form or fashion. Adding on a random chance of them occuring on top of those class abilities creates the opprotunity for them to overlap and chain. so not only in order to make this work would they need to nerf critical hit and miss chances but they'd need to balance all of those other abilities around them as well. You talk about how great it would be to hit a guy and have this effects happen to opponents but its more then likely that most enemies wont survive many hits from your characters anyways. In fact they just got crit and if they aren't already dead then they are liekly at its door. When they happen to your opponents they will liekly be short lived or unnoticed. Any enemy that will live long enough for you to notice will likely be immune to certain status effects anyways(again speaking from playing experience in which this is prevalent in most rpgs/games. boss immunites are pretty rampant). So in essense that for the most part would mean that these effects will be noticed most of the time as happening to your character. You talk about me pointing out how it wont but please point out the positives and tell me how these changes will add to the game and make it better. explain to me the awesome situations and circumstances that would make the game better. I would love to see the good things in the idea.

I've played several games where weapons and armor can break. Never once did I think it added to the game in a positive way. The only game where I didn't consider weapon and armor breaks completely obnoxious was Fallout: New Vegas and only because you can usual fix them on the spot. Most games that include them are mmo's that need a way to punish failure in a world where you can autores and as a money sink. The earliest game I played that had them was lands of lore. Everytime certain enemies attack they was a chance that you're armor would outright be destroyed. The only thing that experience taught me was to save often in those areas. If they add durablity into the game I don't think I'd care that much but if every monster is sundering my equiptment that just gets old real fast. I wasn't asking what the point was to the chance to crit or automiss. I'm asking what would be the point of empowering them and then making them so rare they never occur. Lets make crits and automiss more devastating(and yes loss of control of your character is a big deal in combat) but make them happen less often. I guess I just don't see the point then. I'm am simply stating my opinions and views on the matter just as you are. Just because they don't fall into "I'm on board" catagory doesn't mean I can't post in this thread. I'm simply highlighting what I see as the flaws in the idea. The biggest factor I consider with most of the changes that people suggest on these forums are1. Is this going to make the game more fun? 2. How difficult would it be to impliemn said idea? Now I don't really see a huge problem with number 2 because it would be a mechanic in the game. But I do have to say the Idea of random armor breaks and crowd control sound like a bad idea period. I'm sure most of the worst ideas that have come into games had a group of people sitting there saying the same things you guys are saying now. "wouldn't it be cool if" I've dealt with random equiptment breaks and its just not fun it IS annoying. It doesn't keep me wanting to play more. It doesn't make think "that was awesome" If you asking why I'm posting this it's to get people to think.

I was never suggesting that all the effects happened all at once. I was stating that anyone of those effects would be bad enough on its own when tirggered. weapon and armor breaks are purely a poor mechanic. It's something that when 95%+ of the player have it happens would just trigger a reload because of what a pain in the ass it would be. And considering they plan an unforgiving mode in "ironman" the spikyness of the other effects on combat could easily turn a situation that should of been tough fight into "wtf just happened?" scenario. and "well you knew the risk when you decided to play ironman" doesnt really cut it when you add random crowd control spikes into the game. Making crits happen one percent of the time in order to put these effects in my opinion would also be a bad choice. Why? Becausde people simple like to crit. Most games that have crit mechanics and ways to improve crits have most of the player base wanting them. Why are you guys even making a thread about crits? Because crits are fun. You like it when you see a spike in damage in which you stick it to the other guy. But they are already powerful and popular in a way that they don't need help to have people wanting them more. I'll agree that 1 percent would greatly reduce the risk of said effects happening to the point where they will become moot. But then what was the point of having them anyways?

the biggest problem I see is that most of the suggestions for the effects to go with the criticals are pretty heinous. your basically saying that everysingle enemy on the feild would have the potential to Break your weapon or armor, cause loss of controls of your character (fear/stun/almost want to classify drop weapon here but not quite), the only reasonable ones of the listed effects are the stat damage and the movement loss. The causing injury that wont heal in combat is a given from what the devs say about health vs stamina. Don't forget that enemies and pcs will likely already have tools to cause these things to happen on their own. Giving an automatic chance on every attack is simply not needed.

Combat is going to play a fairly large part of the game. Assuming critical hits and misses happen 5% of the time thats pretty fricken often. If you and your enemy attack each other strike for strike theres going to be a 9.75% chance with every exchange that you are going to crit miss or be crit. 9.75% chance of stun, weapon drop, fear, blind movement loss, weapon/armor, state damage is going to happen to your character. I'm pretty sure most people voting for this didn't really think it through just how often said things will happen. this feature wouldn't add a cent of tactics. A crit is random and piling on a bonus effect on top of damage isnt needed. Crit are already popular in most every game if not outright over power. what this will do is add a worse spike effect then what they had before. Adding a random chance of a huge combat bonus or penalty doesn't add to tactics it takes away from it.

The gods were watching... I want to see a guy pull out a cellphone to record someone and say that now

I really have to say this is one of the worse ideas I've seen so far. As the character you are going to get attacked and attack far more then any other npc out there. In all likelyhood they will die in 4-5 hits tops so their period of being stunned/blind/dissarmed will be short lived. I can see this feature becoming nothing more then a stupid annoyance. Something like "Oh the boss jsut crit me! Not only did it hit like a truck now I'm stunned for x seconds". The fact is you'll hardly notice what the affect will have on enemies and it will happen everyother fight to you. I don't care if there are certain unique weapons doing these effects, but on everyweapon will just be annoying. Do you really wwant to put somethnig annoying into every fight?

also its pretty sad that you did that zin

So basically you're whining because it has no main quest relevance to the main quest? thats what like 85%+ of the game? If you want straight line progression only having to do the the main quest go play diablo 3. You're mad because you didnt gain rep for helping a small religous sect dedicated to secretly keep a demigod imprisoned? really? "Dude. I'm a pretty big deal from BG 1, and also, I just travelled to the bottom of the famed Watcher's Keep and killed whatever was lurking down there with my bare hands. Stop messing around. You're just being silly now." So does the general populus know about watchers keep? And you're not even in the same country and you think strangers on the street should recognize you? they don't have phones that can make video feed of people or pictures. I'd think it would be more stupid if he had known anything remotely related to watchers keep "But no, nothing was different. All you get is xp and loot." aren't those things different? you say nothing is different and then say something is different. what did Kangaxx or Firkraag have to do with the main quest? Did anyone ever mention them to you when you first met someone? I just don't get you complaint here. you gain rep for quests when it affects either well known people or communities in general. Seriously think before you complain

It's nostolgiac and what many at Obsidian "know how to do". I still enjoy playing Baldur's Gate 2, and it's not like any of the 3d style of these games (KOTOR, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights) have actually particularly benefited. Ok, I enjoyed some of it in KOTOR. But really it should be good enough. to be honest I think a lot of games(including the ones listed) would have been much better off had they just done what PE is trying to do now

lol. after watching this it makes the idea of punching dolphins all the more appealing

Just as you could make the agreemeant that its harder to hit in melee with low light it would also be harder to defend in melee as well. As far as ranged goes it depends on wether or not the target or attacker has light srouces near them. Not really for or against this idea. You'll think is is an awesome idea until the time comes when theres a large area of swamp. And I can see it now the cries of "I would never change my mind about this I love this idea". In any video anything that limits and slows down mobilty just comes off as annoying. It wont add to the fun of the game. Will it add a little bit of realism? Sure. But will it make the game more fun? No I can think of a lot of times in game where a slow down affect of the environment just makes me sigh at the pace. I can remember those places in games and not in a fun way. However I can't think of a time where I thought to myself "Oh I really wish they made my character go at half pace right now!" Those don't exist for me. I'm fine with this, but the ladder would likely be difficult to impliment. This honestly sounds like it would be more devolpment time then it would be worth. The fire affects sound cool and all but its so inconsequential that it husts. And considering that spells like those are fire damage on not physical damage collapsing walls doesnt sound too likely. And if the walls collapse the whole building comes down and kills your party? Line of sight for a fireballs damage path isn't a bad idea but baldurs gate already did this so that seems like a non-issue. They already said no grappling. I really can't see this going into the game.

if you could please would you mind post the source stating that full stamina loss results in knockout. My understanding was that it was an easily renewable health buffer before you took harder to heal damage.

I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of missing quests because the npc will be wandering around. And the only your character would know that is if they watched them for 24 hours straight. Now who's not roleplaying realistically? I don't think she was suggesting NPC's just wander aimlessly. But that it's perhaps, slightly unimmersive that an 8-year-old child is just standing on the outskirts of town at 2AM because he's still waiting on you to find the flute he dropped by the river and bring it back to him. I think it would be pretty interesting if they simply had the NPCs sleep at their dwelling (unless there was some specific reason for them to be up and in a certain place) in the middle of the night, but perhaps you could still "turn in" a quest at their humble abode. I personally don't think I would mind being briefly woken up to be told that the remains and personal effects of my long lost brother who disappeared without a trace 3 months ago had been found, or that my 1,000-silver debt to the corrupt tavernkeeper was no longer an issue. Of course, things that went beyond delivering an item or some information to someone would sometimes still require a certain time of day. Lets assume they do this and the other suggestion of making night's longer during the winter. I dont want to see a situation where i say to myself "crap its 5:30pm. better do nothing for the next 14 hours of game time". that sounds like a poorly thoughtout mechanic that serves no real purpose or value. Might as well require our heroes to have bathroom breaks.

Unless you actually had confirmation from the designers then you don't know that some of those walking times had included the time needed for rest. And if a walknig period states 24 even if you rested for 8 or even 10 of those hours fatigue would be a natural side affect from such a long trek. not to mention the magical light sources could turn traveling at night into easy as day. I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of missing quests because the npc will be wandering around. And the only your character would know that is if they watched them for 24 hours straight. Now who's not roleplaying realistically? I think your day and night Idea is pretty good. it shouldn't take up much time to set that up. However I have to say a big no to the seasonal change idea. Not because it wouldn't be a nice touch but because it would just eat up too much resources for not a lot of gain. I'd rather have the animators have time to develop 14 new areas than see snow and leaves changing colors.

In PE2 they could try to include nun-lethal damage

Have you ever been playing an rpg and thought to yourself one of the following "Do I really have to kill this guy?" "I'd love to beat the $^ out of them!" "Crap I lost rep!" "My companions are a bunch of pansies..." "Thats an expensive looking watch you're wearing..." "This guy just called me an ass-hat. No one calls me an ass-hat!" I personally think that none-lethal damage would make a nice addition to the game. You could make it so that their Unconsious body is lootable like a corpse. What better way to deal with the man who insulted your clan then to beat him senseless and send him home in his nickers. There are a lot of times in rpgs that it would make more sense to knock a guy out instead of running him through. It would also give the devs more ways to differentiate weapons. For example a quarterstaff would be able to deal noneleathal damage much more efficiently then a rapier or heavy pick. Implementation doesn't seem like it would be that hard since they likely already have animations for unconsious or knocked-down foes. Once they figure out how they want each weapon to be affected by a none-lethal toggle somewhere on the UI they'd be done. Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?

I really dont want to be the one to burst your bubble but here goes. Ever hear of the underdark?