Kymriana

eez tru So I'm doomed. Do it the way the generations before you did it: Take comfort in the fact that one day your children will have children... heeheehee Honestly one of my favorite old-school Bill Cosby skits was aaaaaaaall about that... Revenge. (Sort of like how I laughed myself silly when I went to a high school reunion and saw almost every guy that was married with kids now had all had GIRLS. Sweet sweet revenge!)

Look, if you're going to start reading something into a perfectly innocent story about a group of sailors hunting for sperm on the high seas I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

My stance offers them the CHANCE to listen if they are open to it. Some are. Some aren't. But my stance also provides information and facilitates discussion amoung OTHER people who are there, join, or have been watching. There is a degree of 'power tripping' and 'moral high-ground superiority' involved when you go 'they are presenting a stupid idea and should be called stupid, told to leave, belittled, personally attacked, and so on'... It is an assumption of power that no one, except yourself, have granted you. It is not up to you to dictate what people can discuss and why. You can offer your opinion on their opinion, but the ONLY deciding voice in any of this is, in the end, Obsidian. And the point of having a forum and asking for opinions is so that they can see all of them, see the discussions, and weigh them as they see fit. You are free to be a bomb-thrower if you want. But if doesn't help your cause in the eyes of observes except for other bomb-throwers.

Jasede, you will never have or facilitate a good exchange of ideas or get someone to be open-minded about changing their ideas or opinions if you attack them, are rude, or back them into a corner. You know what happens when you do that? You get ignored, they close down and refuse to listen, and no one gets anywhere in any semblance of a conversation. Being nasty, rude, belittling, and attacking people doesn't help your cause, it just makes you look like a jerk to the person you're going after and others who are reading it. It puts a negative light on what you say to anyone who comes in and sees the conversation, which doesn't help your cause either. I'm not the 'bully police' but I am pointing out logical facts and how the human creature reacts when faced with attacks or calm dialogue. I do not, at any point, see the need to belittle or be rude to someone to make my point. I do not derive any kind of pleasure from putting other people down or being rude/mean to someone that I strongly disagree with. It doesn't get me anywhere, I know they won't listen to me if I do that, and if I'm petty enough to take pleasure in it... I'm the one with a problem then. "Shaking babies is good!" "Well, actually, shaking babies is actually pretty dangerous. Here's why... it can cause internal damage, concussions, bleeding, and lead to the death of the baby." "Shaking babies is good!" "What? You're an evil jerk! WTF is wrong with you!" One makes a point and explains why the stated opinion is not really a good idea. One just attacks the person without offering any kind of advice on why that opinion might not be such a good idea. While it is up to the first person to listen or not, they are more LIKELY to respond to the first than the second. And the first also provides information to anyone else that sees or enters into the conversation.

Oh SQUEAK! I got my title. Thank you very much. :D (I'm missing on the list, though.... and that list is SCARY long... and by SCARY I mean AWESOME.)

I'll just copy-paste this here... since it appears to be relevant... "The real PROBLEM comes when someone out and out attacks them and is demeaning/rude... because all that happens then is people getting their backs up from feeling belittled and snarling back about it. How is that even remotely conducive to anything except being a trollish jerk to someone who likes something the other person doesn't? Everyone likes different things... and those people are GOING to come to this forum. Being nasty to people because they don't want their 'ilk' on 'their old-school forums' isn't going to drive them off... but it IS going to cause nasty divisions and fighting. I'm ALL for a dialogue of what people would prefer in the game. And that means people being respectful to each other, even if they don't agree or like what the other person wants. I don't agree when someone goes 'the massive dungeon should have no exits and only hardcoooooooore people should be able to do is, RAWR!' but I see why they might want it and just respectfully go 'I'd like it if they had a means to escape every 4-5 levels if you can find it/unlock it, perhaps, and had to fight some to get back down after' as a different idea without going 'that's STUPID and you're a jerk for wanting to do that when not everyone likes something like that'. I guess I just wish people with differing opinions would be less hostile to each other and less 'we don't want you in our clubhouse' to each other. Ya know? Maybe I'm just getting too old. " The key is people knowing how to respectfully and maturely agree to disagree and how to debate without attacking or getting personal with someone with a differing opinion. That's all. The 'anonymity' of the web has removed a LOT of the civilized veneer that debating people in the past had, in my opinion. Which is a pity because it is a lot harder to share ideas when people are forced to be defensive or feel attacked all the time. Yeah, I really am getting too old. /sigh

You don't know much about dragon ladies, do you? They don't really submit to anyone... XD A marshmallow-were.... that's... huh. I'm going to go clean my keurig as my brain tries to wrap itself around that one... o_0

I sure am a fan of white chocolate... craving now... tyvm! Why, you are MOST welcome! And now I'm going to have to go make a cup, too. As for the mainstream comment... I now almost feel like I got called a hipster sweet-fiend. This disturbs me. GREATLY.

Oh dear. Um Ah I said I liked sweets. It was a general statement! I would always happily add marshmallows to my delicious hot cocoa. I swear!

I'm a sweet-fiend and the white chocolate hot cocoa is soooooooooo good. <3

There needs to be more lawful evil in general. /sage nod

Well, the problem I see with this is that you are doubting that the Obsidian writers can actually handle developing a relationship, be that romantic or otherwise, as anything but awkward cardboard cut-outs. Given that I DO think and expect that they can do so when not constrained by a Triple A Tyrant Over-Company forcing deadlines and un-necessary milestones on them, I wouldn't mind the option to pursue a well-written romance among other well-written relationship options. As the player, my choices(or dialogue/action flags) dictate who I am to the party. How the party of pre-created characters react to that thread should be unique and understandable. Should that include romantic attraction if the flags hit match up to the NPC involved? I think so. It should also flag another NPC with deeply held beliefs in the opposite direction to consider slitting my throat at night or storming off from the party, vowing to never work with/trust someone again.

Snerf, I think they were just making an extreme argument to try to illustrate how you sound to anyone who wants even some romance in their title. However, I'm going to go out on a limb and try to explain why some want a level of romance between characters... (though my argument is for in-depth relationships of all types including 'brothers in arms, sword-brothers/sisters, rivals, and lovers(even if it isn't physical, because this isn't a cinematic game and who cares if the text on the screen goes 'and they shared a bedroll'?).) Lets look at Firefly: Wash and Zoe are married. How they interact with each other tells us a lot about their personalities and character and drives a part of the story. ("Captain, I need you to take the helm. I need this man to tear all my clothes off." "Work, work, work...") Their relationship is not the be-all-end-all of the story. Mal and Inara have that unspoken THING hovering off to the side. Always there. Always tension. They are not lovers, but the hint at romance flavours their characters. Mal and Jayne... they are not rivals, not brothers in arms, they're just business partners. Relationships between party members matter because they DO flavour the story. Would people like the chance for a romance/rivalry/sword-brother(sister) to evolve as people travel together facing death and danger along the way? Why YES, I think a whole LOT of people do. Does this mean that most of them want a Japanese Dating Sim or a clumsy attempt at it that has become popular in other studios? Nope. Some do, maybe. But not everyone. Those that want some depth in relationships are not just wanting to bump uglies... they want to watch characters evolve in how they treat each other... and they want it to be in believable ways, which can and does include romance or rivalry. This, at least, is my take. It's all I really want. Do I want the chance for a character I create to find their soul-mate? Sure. Do I want a sword-brother who I know I can trust no matter what happens to always have my back? HECK yes. Both of those things matter. (And yes, I want a rival... because I feel a good rival can drive and draw the hero to new and better heights when done well.) I don't think anything that I've said I wanted would 'take away' from the game at all. But that's just my take. /shrug

I have a keurig... I just use it for tea and hot cocoa... Teehee

Ieo, hun, if I can ignore someone getting in my face about politics(who knows very well where I sit on it and is very openly trying to rile me up) and smile calmly before going 'Actually, I think this. :D' I know that you can handle a girl who likes the things you said. You were so very polite and well spoken in our conversation on time back on the 'thread that was' page 11. But honestly, I'm keen to know what everyone would like to see in the game. I just wish they'd be less hostile to what anyone else wants in the process of sharing opinions about it.

Haha, the thing is, Ieo, it really isn't a big deal for her to say that's what she wants. Because she is just saying it. We all KNOW that isn't what the writers at Obsidian do, have done, or are even remotely thinking of going. Shaking your head at the screen and then going 'Yeah, I don't really like that idea... I'd rather it be X Y Z instead' nets a better result than 'u r such a biotard, go play sims and get offa our forums'. She isn't going to go anywhere if she doesn't want to and being nasty to her isn't going to net anything except making her defensive or aggressive back and/or annoying a poor Mod who might have to come in and see what the trouble is about. It's just agreeing to massively disagree without being nasty to one another is all... ya know? :\

Drink some coffee, gurl! I hate coffee.... XD But I will go wander off for some tea before I have to take the dog in to the groomers and run my errands. I just had to put my 'plea for reasonable dialogue' into the romance thread again. Because I'm somewhat masochistic like that and keep going back in there.

They exist because there are people on the other side going "We want romances and melodrama! and it should be teh most improtant thing in any game!" and like me, many think that romances have never been very well done. Also quite many are wary that if Obsidian would go "Sure, there will be romances", it would bring that certain crowd who just obsesses about romances and would want basicly all companions be romanceable etc. I think that some people are so used to romances and personal issues being so prominient in Bioware's games that they can't think any other way of doing RPGs, or any other stuff put instead. The thing is... even if that is what they want, it's just them. The writers here have a track-record of how they write and, without a big name publisher forcing anything on them, are going to do what they want. Saying 'we would like romance' gives them an indication that whatever avenue they choose to go in that field has been requested. Just because people who enjoy a more 'robust' romance option say they want them isn't going to do diddly to the writers who were given the ability to do a game the way THEY want thanks to the kickstarter. So, really, those who come in sighing over more 'robust' options are just making noise and not really harming anyone. The real PROBLEM comes when someone out and out attacks them and is demeaning/rude... because all that happens then is people getting their backs up from feeling belittled and snarling back about it. How is that even remotely conducive to anything except being a trollish jerk to someone who likes something the other person doesn't? Everyone likes different things... and those people are GOING to come to this forum. Being nasty to people because they don't want their 'ilk' on 'their old-school forums' isn't going to drive them off... but it IS going to cause nasty divisions and fighting. I'm ALL for a dialogue of what people would prefer in the game. And that means people being respectful to each other, even if they don't agree or like what the other person wants. I don't agree when someone goes 'the massive dungeon should have no exits and only hardcoooooooore people should be able to do is, RAWR!' but I see why they might want it and just respectfully go 'I'd like it if they had a means to escape every 4-5 levels if you can find it/unlock it, perhaps, and had to fight some to get back down after' as a different idea without going 'that's STUPID and you're a jerk for wanting to do that when not everyone likes something like that'. I guess I just wish people with differing opinions would be less hostile to each other and less 'we don't want you in our clubhouse' to each other. Ya know? Maybe I'm just getting too old.

Official? Bwha? Oh. Okay. /tries not to fall asleep on keyboard Kymriana, Dragon Lady of the Obsidian Order

You know, Jarpie, the problem at this point really isn't those of us who want a nice happy medium.... it's the people who come in and throw the 'anyone who wants romance are bio-tards and I don't want to see it in my game' bombs. If everyone agreed that some well-written medium was a reasonable thing and acknowledged that it was in the hands of the writers regardless, this thread would be a lot nicer. But eh... I guess some just find it more fun to throw bombs.

/wakes up, staggers in, sees decision about new members and happily staggers off to finish waking up Oh good. ^^

I'm throwing my hat in with a 'oh gosh, me too' comment on this. I still pull the Morrowind music up from time to time to fall asleep to... It's just fantastic. (Though I will fully admit that I'm also a complete and utter SUCKER for male choral chant/dramatic music and as such sit in my darkened room petting my Skyrim soundtrack hissing 'my precious' from time to time. You know, just to be honest.) One reason why I doubled my donation near the end, even though I'm jobless and have no money(hooray instant noodles!) was to have the sound track the second it was available Hmmmmm... sound track.... preciousssssss....

Aw, thank you, syn. :3

I knoooooooooow... I'm in the middle of a 'no-job-bored-at-home' Firefly watching because the GM for our bi-weekly DnD game decided that those who want to can come to his place and play a Firefly game on the off-weekends. I'm soooooooooooo happy about it! >:}

And sistergoldring I am sorry Please forgive me, and I will let you take a bite off me