Ninjamestari

Typical, people cannot see past the hat A shame though, she was my favorite.

I don't see how those two things are mutually exclusive. If you decide that the unique pre-crafted item isn't worth picking up, you'll end up without it. Also, magic bags. The unique items are more valuable if you are facing the limitations of a limited inventory/carry capacity. When it comes to unique pre-designed items, less is more, to a certain degree. If there are too many unique items, then the unique items lose their novelty. You know, special not being special anymore. I think there are two camps in this regard; people who want a proper inventory management and people like Morty who don't want inventory at all. The sad reality I think is that there is no real compromise between the two, anything less than real inventory management won't sit well with those who want it as a part of their experience, and any inventory hassle is too much for the people who don't, which is why I'd say the design team should pick one option and stick with it. Either eliminate inventory almost completely like in ME2, or have a proper limited carry capacity inventory tetris. Either of those choices would be better than what was in PoE in my opinion; either commit to inventory being a core part of the game experience, or don't do it at all. No one really likes a compromise, they just say they do because they hate controversy.

I see Eb, I see Verse, why no Sirin?

I think carry weight does add a ton of depth to the game AND to the identity of your characters. You'll end up cursing the weak members of your party and praising the strong every time you begin to figure out which pieces of loot get left to rot on the ground. If you want a deep roleplaying experience, then convenience for the sake of convenience really is the wrong way to go. Also, every product has to stand for something, not just be a "pick your own experience" - mess that stands for nothing. I think PoE should stand for the long and glorious tradition of computer roleplaying that culminated in the IE games, not just get a similar paint job.

- Yes, I have explained why D&D stats are the gold standard, repeatedly, and I even made the distinction that I was talking about the concepts, not the mechanical implementation to make things more clear. I find it highly pretentious of you to ignore that fact while blaming me of ignoring your non-existing counter-points. So let's try again. The D&D stats cover all the fundamental aspects of a character and they are deeply rooted in reality and thus are highly intuitive. Also, in this context, D&D IS the very inspiration for PoE stats, so it's a natural comparison. -Dumping abilities is incredibly easy to fix, it takes work and planning, but it definitely isn't difficult, as I think I've explained already. All you need to do is to have the fundamental aspects of your character tied to the abilities, and script situations where those are taken into account. If your CHA is low enough, you don't gain access to most dialogue or quests, if your INT is low enough, your character can't even speak properly and doesn't even get any skill points, if your CON is low enough, enemies only have to sneeze at you in order to kill you because of your low HP, if your STR is low enough, you can't even carry your equipment as even a hat goes beyond your carry limit, if your WIS is low enough, everything confuses you, low DEX and you stumble and fall around all the time. All it takes is a little creative scripting and smart spell/ability design, it definitely isn't difficult. Work intensive, yes, but entirely doable. All you need to do is script elements as blueprints and then use them in the design of the maps and encounters. - PoE uses PoE stats, dumping a wizard's RES to 3 is routine. Also, why are you acting like martial characters who are too weak to lift their own swords would be a good thing? Nothing is more retarded than the low STR warrior with a melee weapon, even though it is the dream of some of the more pathetic individuals of nerd-kind. Somehow I get the feeling that you want a system where your choices don't have consequences and you can be anything at any time, regardless of how you've built your character. You may as well have a game that doesn't have a stat system at all. - it's not that willpower and perception "should" go hand in hand, they just usually do, mainly because being perceptive requires focus and the willpower to maintain that focus. It's one of those fundamental reality things that should be obvious to anyone who is alive and has ever done anything in the real world. -Yes, D&D attributes *are* a lot closer to reality than PoE attributes. At this point I'm not sure if you're just attempting to troll or if you really just lack any sense of reality. Also PoE fiction suffers from the disconnection between its stats and reality, as like I've explained before, PoE world functions physically like our reality, gunpowder releases chemically bound energy to exert force upon the bullet, warriors use their physical muscles to lift their swords, wizards learn complicated methods and concepts to control their spells, and the stats don't represent that.

The problem is: in majority of RPGs (especially story driven RPGs) weight limit doesn't add depth but rather is a time waster and that is precisely why it was removed. As Josh explained there is nothing stopping you from carrying absolutely everything from Dungeons and stashing it/selling it, so removing stash or restricting carry limit only adds more wasted time between looting&selling rather than adding any depth. Some depth of choice could be added if items would disappear once you leave the level, but it creates an issue with game design - unique weapons can be easily permanently lost. If that was the case, people might feel even more obliged to carry what they can, then run back to keep and stash their goods before moving on. So yes, carry limit adds a bit of "immersion", but lately it really did become and annoyance rather than a boon (Elder Scrolls/Witcher3) as it takes your time&attention from doing fun things rather than adding any depth. Perhaps there should be? Perhaps items you leave on the ground should disappear during area transitions? I mean, it would make sense that all sorts of scavengers would pick the bandit camp clean of everything even remotely valuable after the player party has removed the dangerous bandits from the picture.

I'd add extra skill points to intelligence, I always hated that I couldn't influence how many skill points I get per level. And magic resistance could work just like other defence types, you'd just use it against strictly magical attacks, such as spells. I mean the concept is ready there for the taking, just copy the mechanic from D&D and tweak it to fit the PoE system. Never try to re-invent the wheel, the concepts of D&D work out flawlessly, even if the actual mechanics do not, and there's absolutely no reason to do things differently just for the sake of difference. This whole fear of all things 'generic' is a symptom of there being too many hipster **** in this society who insult everything they deem as 'generic' in an attempt to seem sophisticated, and then simple ordinary people associate the fear of rejection to the word. If something is good, it doesn't have to be different. There are things where 'generic' actually does mean boring, but basic logic isn't one of them. If I did the stats for PoE it would go something like this: STR -> Physical strength, +melee damage, + carry capacity, + melee accuracy, large bows and heavier armor could have STR requirements DEX -> Agility and coordination, + accuracy, + dodge, perhaps + movement and attack speed CON -> Toughness and Health, +HP, + fortitude WITS -> Perception and quick thinking, +spell power, + reflex, +dodge, spell casting speed INT -> Reasoning and Learning, + skill points, + number of spells, abilities and talents you learn RES -> Willpower and resilience, +will, +spell/ability duration, + effect of passive abilities. In addition I'd tie certain abilities and situations to direct stat checks, such as a DEX check if you're moving on something slippery, STR if you're attempting to resist a physical force, such as from a pushback spell etcetera. The idea would be to have every single stat be distinct in their role, so that the stat actually describes the character instead of just being some vague maths you pull up during combat. The Physical stats are self-explanatory, Wits is your ability to make rapid decisions in quick situations, making for a more 'liquid' and slippery character, INT brings in more versatility due to your increased capability to learn and Resolve would be your general pig-headedness. Strict spell-power would depend on your class, INT for Wizards and Chanters, WITS for Ciphers and RES for Priests and Druids.

"generifies", man I hate these made-up hipster words. Having one's head backwards isn't 'non-generic', it is retarded. If you want to be something other than generic, you definitely do not touch the fundamentals, ****ing up the fundamentals is the most stupid and generic way people try to be 'non-generic'. That's why people don't like hipsters; they're pretentious, they put insane amounts of effort into appearing non-generic, and they completely miss the functional reality. It's the all appearance zero essence type of difference. That's the issue PoE stats have, they're kinda hipster stats some people like just because they're different, not because of any supposed merits. Every single 'merit' argument for the PoE stat system is pure rationalization that is usually false, like "no min-maxing" and meaningless platitudes like "every build is valid".

- D&D is simply an example of how to do stats right, it may not be the only way, but they WERE the basis for PoE stats, and they ARE a lot better than PoE stats. Also, keep in mind the distinction that I'm talking about the concepts, not the math here; you can always screw things up with bad mechanical design, like AD&D did, but as concepts, D&D stats *are* the gold standard, and I already explained why. They work, they cover all the fundamental aspects of the character, and they are deeply rooted in reality. - Dumping any attribute to 3 doesn't make your character barely functional in PoE1, and is exactly what every single power-player does. - So the fact that some abilities are more important for certain types of characters makes the system "deeply imbalanced"? Please.... - Willpower and Perception often go hand in hand, and Wisdom in D&D is close enough to reality that it works. - Attributes are always going to be abstractions to a degree, but claiming that as a reason to not seek to root them in actual reality is just moronic. It's like saying that language is always up for interpretation, thus anyone can speak pig-latin for all we care and everything will still work fine. I'm sorry Morty, but your views are all pretty much fundamentally false. It seems like you think like some French philosopher who thinks everything is up for personal interpretation and that every interpretation is somehow valid at the same time. This is the most pretentious way of thinking in existence, as it allows people with little or no understanding over anything to pretend they're wise and knowledgeable. Don't think like that, it can only lead to bad ideas.

Yeah, but you guys hate the new Strenght/Resolve system because you've fought for the Might system from day 1. Might as a concept is inferior, and only the small minority of players who have some personal stake in Might truly share your view. I bet all the might supporters can be found on these forums.

The general idea, if you want to have balanced stats that make sense, is to have each attribute govern something fundamental about the character. Like in D&D, where you can't really have any dump stats without suffering greatly for it, not in any decent session anyway. You need to think outside the PoE box, start with the fantasy, the 'reality' behind the stats, and the rest can be derived from there. In D&D, a character with STR 3 can barely carry their own equipment, DEX 3 is a bumbling fool who can't even walk straight, CON 3 and you're almost dead, WIS 3 and your character could stare down a charging horde of barbarians and not realize that something is going on, INT 3 and you can't even talk and CHA 3 and you're so repulsive person that even a mother couldn't love you. I mean, why would anyone try to re-invent the wheel when the old concept works perfectly and provides the proper context for everything the stats should do in an intuitive and balanced way. This isn't rocket science guys, you don't have to think on the abstract level to figure it out, the only point you need some abstract thinking is figuring out how to represent those things mathematically in the game, and even that is ridiculously easy. The D&D concept makes the effects of different abilities incredibly obvious. And as far as the soul stuff goes, the world of Pillars simply isn't wacky enough so that it could benefit from attribute concepts that have no roots in reality; if soul is the source of all your traits and your physical shape has no meaning, then you'd need a lot wackier world for that concept to fit; maybe some cross-breed between Planescape and Tides of Numenera, and you'd have a setting where the properties of soul might provide an interesting and fitting basis for how each character stat works. But a world where physics obviously works pretty much the same as in our real reality, where big men with swords and gunpowder are the main ways to wage war, the stats really need to be grounded in reality. EDIT: also, tying a single property, such as melee or spell strength, to multiple attributes is kinda bad idea. If you don't have enough properties for six attributes so that each can be unique and distinct, then you either have to create more properties or reduce the number of attributes. All in all, you don't want your character stats to be vague, as that completely kills any sort of identity they might have withing the context of the game, and if the fantasy and the game have been utterly separated this way, then the immersion suffers immensely.

Don't belittle the issue, a major part of the community hated the Might mechanic the moment they heard of it. This isn't just some "them evil youtubers". I am one of those people, and I'm extremely happy to see that Might is finally gone.

That is a logical fallacy; it's built on the assumption that you *must* be right, and the only reason people don't agree is because they can't see how right you are. In actuality, people have different points of view, different goals, different desires, and different ways of achieving things, and some of them understand the whole thing just as well as you and think you are wrong. It's really that simple. Different points of view have really no bearing on reality. Reality doesn't really care what you think, and just because you don't want the "all builds are viable" nonsense, doesn't make it any less nonsense. The only way to achieve the "all builds are viable" is to make a system where your build has zero implications to your gameplay, and that just isn't even remotely interesting. The only people who can enjoy a system like that are people who don't really understand what the system does in the first place. EDIT: in essence Lephys just happens to be right, not because he 'must' be right, but because his view accurately reflects the reality of things.

There's still the distinction to be made between the old Bioware that made gems like the first KotOR and Jade Empire, and the new Bioware that is obsessed with political Feminist-LBTQ narrative instead of actually making good dialogue and characters. And then there's their obsession with the forced romances and player-sexual characters. Urgh. The point is though, that Bioware USED to be good.

Your wizard does self buffing so he/she isn't using pure physical power to lift tree trunks But riddle me this, Batman: How much physical power was he using to lift tree trunks? You can reasonably say "I don't care how much, I just care what he's doing and not how he's doing it," but you can't reasonably tell anyone the answer to that question, because there isn't one. If this were a math problem on a test, the answer would be "Not enough information." Might as well combine Intellect and Might into a single stat called Capability, then just say "Maybe the character is exerting enough power on the wall to destroy it in its current state, or maybe he's using elaborate scientific planning to dissolve the mortar between the bricks using his own concoction of acid by MacGuyvering readily available substances together... it doesn't matter, because he's getting past the obstacle, because he's capable!" "What is he capable of, specifically?" "... ACCOMPLISHING THINGS! GYAH! WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THIS STAT?!" Now, if you'd excuse me, I'm going to go slay some dragons with my high Defeatery stat. This hits the nail perfectly. I don't think there really is anything to add to this

Thing is... why are unslayable dragons or Orc armies not parked right outside the starting village, blocking your road to literally anywhere else? The only answer is "because your party can only feasibly handle wussier foes right now." Thus, wussier foes are in the early part of the game, and you conveniently don't encounter ludicrously difficult foes until you go elsewhere. I know it gets out of hand, but people act like the natural state of a game world just exists somewhere, and the developers who try to adjust anything in it contextually are unnaturally playing god. No, they're god already. The fact that the Prologue isn't "an unstoppable force razes your village to the ground, and everyone dies, including your main character. THE END" is because they deem that it doesn't happen. Largely because that wouldn't be fun at all. But, that's just a blatant example of NO adjustment, while most level-scaling complaints are merely an example of way too much/incorrectly-designed adjustment. No one really wants NO adjustment, because no adjustment doesn't make any sense. The game world, by design, is adjusted to your party's adventure through it. You can't rightly expect for time and effort expended by your party to mould and shape your power growth, but for the exact same tribe of goblins to just sit on their arses during that same passage of time, in the same spot in the forest, where no other tribe takes over their territory, or they don't get wiped out by some drakes who take over the area. That being said, most scaling applications could be better designed with general world-lore in mind, like the above example. But the fact that even the same goblins are there with better equipment and more HP, etc., a month down the road, is not that crazy considering your party are the exact same way. "How DARE the developers not lock all of my foes into stasis whilst I get better!" You're not Goku, and you're not owed a hyperbolic time chamber. There's a huge difference between automatic algorithmic level-adjustment that changes the stats of the mobs and simple level design. What you're talking about is the latter, the thing I don't like is the former. Adjustments in this context is the game making changes to the world in the fly based on math-variables, such as your level. Having weaker mobs in earlier areas is strictly level design, and it doesn't change as you gain in levels. If encounters scale, you can't even have a comparison between the power you have in two different play-throughs; perhaps you skipped most of the content the first time around, and now you've done everything this time and I think you should be able to see and feel that difference in power.

Power corrupts. The more power any organization gets, the more corrupted it becomes. I think the solution could be perhaps just that the unions should be limited in some way, so that there could be multiple unions, who then can compete together to keep each other in check. Still, the world moves around power dynamics, ideologies have very little sway in the big picture; they're just tools, that's why there are no real solutions to any of this. If I've learned something during my life, it is the fact that the second law of thermodynamics absolutely applies to human societies of all kinds. Entropy always increases.

Your last paragraph is precisely my point. If you can overcome the squishiness restriction of a wizard just by focusing on constitution, it's not really a restriction then. There are other ways to enable tougher wizard builds; for example, perhaps there's a talent they can use to gain the ability to cast properly in armor, light armor first and then medium etc. The reasoning is that there has to be a cost associated with overcoming the limitations of a class, you need to invest in that and build around the concept. Also, making constitution useful for wizards isn't the same thing as making wizards survivable in melee. The vampire who is so powerful that he can even survive short periods of exposure to sunlight is an exceptional vampire, not just another fledgling who invested a little more in constitution. In the same manner, I don't think you should be able to overcome a fundamental class limitation at first level simply by your initial stat allocation. We obviously agree on what we want to see in a game like this, but my point is pretty much just that stat design is the wrong way to try to achieve the versatility. Keep the stat design simple and down to earth, so that it is easily intuitive and grounded in reality, and then design your classes around that system in a way that both creates the natural strengths and weaknesses as well as ways to overcome those weakness, but at a cost and probably over multiple levels instead of immediately at level 1. If a class is too restricted into a certain role, that is not the result of stat design, that is the result of class design.

Man, that sucks. Why do I get the feeling that this has some sort of causal relationship with the constantly declining quality of Hollywood flicks. :/

Preventing dump stats doesn't happen by making "every stat useful for everyone" in the way PoE did, you eliminate dump stats by having mechanics that punish incredibly low stats. Such as D&D, if your STR becomes low enough, you won't even be able to carry your own damn equipment. The idea that a scholar's ability to read and absorb information would somehow be tied to his muscle mass. Check out the original descriptions of D&D abilities, essentially if any of your abilities in it drops to zero, you become helpless. STR 0 means that you're too weak to move at all, DEX 0 means that you have absolutely no control over your movement, CON 0 means you're not even alive, INT 0 means you're essentially a vegetable, WIS 0 means that you cannot perceive anything and CHA 0 means that you cannot make a distinction between yourself and your surroundings. The idea behind D&D stats is precisely how a stat system in a good RPG should be thought of, it is the mathematical representation of your character's traits and abilites, not a separate game-mechanic. Also the D&D system is deeply rooted in reality, which is what gives it the immersive power it has.

I'd go with this approach. Inventory management is an important part of a proper RPG experience in my book, and it forces the player to make decisions on what to take with you and what to leave behind. It also ties in nicely with STR score via carry weight, like in D&D.

I think you're half correct; with design there's no strict 'right' but believe me there are a million ways to do it wrong. And one thing that is clearly wrong to me is precisely this separation between gameplay and roleplay, the magic of an RPG comes precisely from the interaction between the fantasy and the game mechanics. Think of how Blood works in Vampire the Masquerade; having to feed from game mechanic perspective reinforces the fantasy. Just imagine if it was some arbitrary "you gain blood every time you score a critical hit" or something else equally retarded. Or just think of a simple drain life spell: how much more powerfully does the 1 hit point drained = 1 hit point healed convey the fantasy of the ability than some abstracted "deal x damage, heal y health" where there's absolutely no relation between the two. It also gives a more concrete feeling to hitpoints as they begin to actually represent the character's life-force instead of being a purely mechanical gimmick. The point being, while the "no right and wrong" sounds nice and good and inclusive and tolerant, it is a very dangerous attitude, because while it is difficult to find the "right" answers to design situations, it is incredibly easy to screw up completely and create something that is absolutely wrong. I'm not going to argue about the existence of the "right", because as you know that often depends on ones point of view, but the "wrong" definitely does exist in countless abominable forms.

IT'S A NECROMANCER! Yeah, I hope that they'll just come out and say "after some careful consideration, we came to the conclusion that dropping the party limit to 5 members was a horrible, horrible brain fart, and decided to raise the number of party members back to 6" at some point. If I was religious, I would be praying for it every night.

Those unions actually have that kind of power? Isn't that a bit unconstitutional and contrary to the free-market ideals of the west?

It's funny how different people can be. This is precisely what I don't want to see. I hate vague terminology that doesn't really mean anything just so everyone can pretend that their version is it. To me it utterly breaks the connection to the fantasy of the game. Having an indication of how strong and tough my character is physically is a fundamental aspect of the RPG experience; I want that strength score to actually mean something about my character and not just be some gamy mechanic that destroys the suspension of disbelief. I seriously hope that you're right in your assessment that this won't happen even in a sequel, I hope it never happens.