Osvir
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That's too some extent why I changed my view a little bit. Stealth during non-combat is fine and I do not think it should be cut, I just think that stealth during combat can be rather silly. That isn't to say that rogueish characters shouldn't be able to backstab or anything, but rogueish combat should be more about trickery and misdirection than about sneaking behind opponents.
I still think it'd be neat to give stealth classes more devices to work with towards this end. Traps, caltrops, smoke. I'm saying that rogues should have more power to manipulate combat to make up for loss of combat-sneak.
Your Fighter is making the enemy Fighter pre-occupied, your Wizard is having a duel against another Wizard whilst their Archer is focused on your Rogue. But the Archer gets distracted when a Magic Missile hits his face, and the Rogue is gone, the Archer lost focus and is now focusing the Fighter. Couple moments later the Archer goes down as the Rogue had taken this moment to sneak around the perimeter and flanked the Archer.
Likewise, an easier example:
3v2, you have 2 fighters and a Rogue, the enemy got 2 Fighters. If both my Fighters keep the enemy Fighters busy, they won't have much of a clue of my Rogue sneaking about. That's why it isn't silly, it is just the execution of it (specially in Baldur's Gate) that is somewhat silly (in combat). It could definitely be improved on, and made better.
Stealth isn't necessarily your character vanishing into thin air in plain view, it's your character tricking the enemies and pretty much stay in hiding. Your enemies should know that you are out there (if used in combat), they might just not know exactly where. And they should never return to their duties like nothing happened, if you get seen you get seen, the soldier that saw you and his fellows around him should be on high alert. Maybe they should even run across the entire dungeon and alert all of their buddies too ("sound the horns!" works too) making the dungeon suddenly much much more difficult <- That would advocate for quick take downs before everyone are alerted of your crawling about.
My take;
First of all a quick explanation and what I see these three as (because they are different):
Thief = Someone who steals, most commonly for a living
Assassin = Someone who kills for a living
Rogue = A traveler, self-banished, survivalist, outdoorsman, mercantile/haggler. A vagabond, traveler... a ronin (roadtrippers and train hoppers, hitch-hikers, free loaders). Read Vaabond, so beautiful ad awesome manga. The hardcore codexians here seem to shun anime and manga but there are some intense, mature inspiration to be had (particularly from Berserk, Vinland Saga and Vagabond. Vagabond is a realistic fiction, story inspired by Miyamoto Musashi, trying to capture his mysterious existence in real history. Berserk is a gory, hardcory, deep story of a man who struggles through some pretty nasty adversaries, medieval fantasy. Vinland Saga is about vikings, haven't read it very far but it's deep and has a realistic tone to it).
1. Stealth/Sneak, should be a bonus in shadows and at night. I wouldn't mind a sneaking hunched down, lurking animation for it. Assassin's should be best at it and be able to blend and hide in the shadows, e.q., camouflage, Thief's and Rogue's would only sneak and wouldn't be able to hide (go transparent).
2. Backstab, anyone and everyone can backstab, however I do feel that Assassin's (in particular) could have an ability to strike at vital points (Vital Strike/Stab?).
3. Thievery, of course this is the main ability of the Thief's, the Rogue coming in second and the Assassin last. You should be able to steal from anyone, but instead of getting an entire screen of it, it should be a random item from the characters inventory. The better your pickpocket skill, the better and bigger items are you able to steal, for starters it might be a couple of gold pieces.
4. Scout/Search, equally important as all of the above, and this is the main ability of the Rogue. Being able to deduce, track, read the streets and the people, what kind of city it is. Are the people happy? Sad? How does this effect what you can expect from this city? This forest? What lurks within it, tracks of bandits but mostly spiderweb? Alright, so there's going to be tons of spiders here, better get the Spiderbane etc. etc. Find hidden caches? The road to treasure and glory? etc. etc. great ability that I want to see enhanced.
Wanted to add in one more.
5. Traps: Rogue 1st, Assassin 2nd and Thief 3rd. Why? The Thief isn't a trap maker or a killer, the Thief is a sneaky burglar, a possible mugger, good at haggling and slithering out of situations. Being the Class of Thief should be seriously looked down upon by the citizens of P:E. No one likes a Thief, unless it is the Robin Hood kind. No, traps are for the Rogue first and foremost, being the Utility character, and second for the Assassin (someone mentioned "smoke") using traps to escape. So a Rogue would prepare traps before combat, whilst the Assassin would use traps and utility items in combat no?
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- This is a semi-reasonable solution, they would need to explain it in an incredibly good way to flesh it out though. When it self-destructs does it damage any living or non living things within the area? What happens if you were to try and take a Griomoire from an enemy you knocked unconcious? What about stealing one from someone who has it attached to them while sleeping? What about one owned by someone but it isn't attached to them at the moment?
- They could do this, but you'd have to have a good reason for it, like, "It takes hundreds of years of practiced study to be able to do this" or something else equally ridiculous. That also doesn't solve the problem of obtaining Griomoires from fallen enemies unless you take your other solution, which again would require a ton of explaining and fleshing out. I think going, "You meditate and attach part of your soul/soul power/soul energy to a Griomoire is a more elegant solution. To each their own I guess.
When I say "self-destruct" I don't particularly talk about the Grimoire exploding. AFAIK In the Vancian (spelling?) the words of the spells are burned from memory, lore-wise... back to P:E if the Soul is directly connected, causing a link to the Grimoire and channeling part of your essence into it, it would be a part of the Wizard, an extension. Like an electrical current. When the wielder of the Tome dies, that connection is cut off and part of the Wizard's soul still lingers with nowhere to go it overloads and burns up (and you'll only be able to salvage 1-3 scrolls/pages from the broken Grimoire). As if the Wizard wishes to protect his own spells, or as if his soul does it as it moves on to another plane/dimension, it takes the grimoire with the dead Wizard.
Stealing a Grimoire would and should be practically impossible, as it should be a pretty hefty part of the Wizard (just like the Harp is necessary for the Bard) I suggest that the Tome would return to the Wizard, or if a Thief tries to steal it he'll be burned, for as long as that Wizard is alive, no one will be able to use the Tome except that specific Wizard. It would be a part of their soul. Of course there could be a quest in the game where you just do that, but because of the circumstances and the situation of this particular Grimoire, you would be able to steal it, otherwise no no in my opinion.
which again would require a ton of explaining and fleshing out.How so? E.g., What do you mean, "require a ton of" and what kind of fleshing out? Non of the IE games (save PS:T) explained anything about the "Mage Spellbook" or "Priest Spells", well today I understand the Lore (Vancian) but the first times I played Baldur's Gate years ago I had no clue at all and probably others who never play DnD didn't understand it either.
I understand that this is my explanation, fleshing out, but that's all I've got and a bit of a repetition of what I said above (just fine tuned~);
Tomes are bound to the Wizard, it is practically an extra arm, or hand. The Wizard would never be complete without it, like the Bard is not complete without his Instrument, or the Samurai without his Sword, and would it be stolen from them, woe to the Thief. The Wizard can simply snap his fingers, and suddenly the Tome will be in his hands, and a fried Thief shortly thereafter. So long as a Wizard is alive, his Tome will always be his, likewise when he dies, the Tome will die with the Wizard, leaving only a few pages of his mark in history remaining. It is the "Bond of the Book", attained after every Wizard truly goes through the "Trial of the Tome".
* Bond of the Book, the final stage of the Trial of the Tome, where the Wizard needs to bleed into the book, so as to complete his bonding and grant passage for his soul into the Book.
* Trial of the Tome = Crafting a Grimoire, which requires lots of rare material and questing. Like a Lightsaber. Although Magic is common, true Wizards are not (I hope? :D). I want enemy Wizards, but I don't want them to be all over the place. I felt that Baldur's Gate was a fair amount of Wizards. Those who call magic from the roots of their souls need to contain their power. Yes, the Grimoire is not only a Tome to write spells in, it is a cage which keeps part of Wizards soul trapped because of the untold power which lingers within. Those who do not pass the Trial of the Tome, will still have the magical aptitude, but broken men, as part of their souls forever lost in a nameless worthless book, it is not always that a Grimoire is crafted correctly, and if it isn't, there is a chance that you'll lose power instead of gaining power.
[Rambling end]
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Stealth is very difficult to do right in isometric RPGs. I'd rather cut it than have terrible and awkward sneaking in the daylight gameplay.
Metal Gear Solid did it greatly. It is all about the field of vision, and it isn't 1998 anymore (I don't know why that date, just random), it's 2012 and stealth from an isometric view can be done goed. The Assassin uses camouflage to blend with the foreground and background, everyone is capable of throwing magic or have magic abilities in P:E. I would like to see the old IE stealth system be appropriately updated. Where field of vision matters, and you need to crawl alongside the walls and hide behind boxes and other props.
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I personally dislike the idea of having an inventory full of Grimoires. I like the idea of Grimoires being a magical item that you essentially sink power into from your souls and as such it gives you a stable conduit to more safely and reliably utilize spells and as you have to devote such power to it that explains why it would take restrictively long to swap between them, I'd honestly prefer it almost being impossible in combat and more take a ritual type situation that can only happen when you rest.
I hardly doubt it, several solutions to restrict you from even being able to hoard Grimoires:
* A Tome should weigh some and thus make it hard for the Wizard to carry more than 2-3, of course you could build a more durable stronger Wizard capable of carrying much more but then you'd lose out on Magic damage. Take in mind that, in my opinion, they should weigh more the more scrolls you use/the more magic you learn (More pages).
* Another solution is a limited inventory, so you could practically only carry 2-3 Grimoires (1 equipped, 1 or 2 in backpack).
* Another solution, which I've tried to explain, is that when an enemy Wizard dies, his Grimoire "self-destruct", thus you won't be able to pick every Grimoire you find.
* Another solution is to have a code saying "You have 2 Grimoires already, you may not pick up a 3rd one" which is kind of boring and a little bit too blunt.
* Another solution is, there is only a couple of people in the game who knows how to make a Grimoire (Kind of like Oliander the Wandmaker in Harry Potter) and they won't make you more than 2 Grimoires, except that evil Grim Crafter who senses your lust for power and makes a 3rd one for you.
Now, I have no clue as to what Obsidian have in mind, so what I am suggesting here or speculating on might be totally out of the question too, we'll see what Obsidian reveals.
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* Wands; Shoots a low level spell/bolt at the enemy, equippable on Main-Hand.
Not only just equippable on Main-Hand but on off-Hand too. Dual Wielding Wands f- yes please :D Wand Slinger
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I've been hanging around the empty Interplay forums a little bit, not so much.. hardly at all.. but nonetheless.. I saw this and I'm wondering if it is a desperate attempt at getting some cash flow so that they can start funding Black Isle Studios game development:
$35 for 32 games, soundtrack etc... that's their entire collection which would cost... $190~ some? So you are saving $155~ some... it's a bargain.
They've sold 180k games thus far, $35'000 for 32'000 games... that should be something like $200k (GOG probably takes a cut of it too). I hope that Black Isle Studios start again though, I don't even know why... I just get a feeling that something dark will spawn out of it and engulf all of our roleplaying hearts and make us submit into slave labor and praying to the Dungeon Master Gods
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I would rather take 10 high quality, polished quests, over 8+2 unlockable, or 8x2 "re-playable" quests. If you follow me.
Of course, but what if you could get those 10 high quality quests, and on a NG+ you'd still get those 2 quests.
That's why I'm suggesting (a bit of a summary and repetition):
* NG+ Quick Start/Boost. On second playthrough you can start up to Level 5 (Option only!). Why? The first few levels of the game are usually the most boring ones, but they are also some of the most achieving ones as well (Getting a character to level 5 is so much more worth it, but very time consuming, sometimes you just want to start at a slightly higher level so you can enjoy the class much more. If you've finished the game once, there is a high chance you've felt, met, tried, fought with or against, every single class in the game so you have a jist of what you are expecting to play with).
* NG+ Story Elements, The Game Guides you towards another path that branches away from the previous path. If you walked right the first game, in the second playthrough a slithering path to the left is suddenly open and you get to choose to take it or not. If you do, you can on a third playthrough appreciate the right path again.
* Items that your previous character had is dropped in the world somewhere, randomly, with some in-game lore and story of your previous character- this way you could trade "save files" with your friends, and on one of your playthroughs you could get one of their items that they crafted.
* End Game Lore could hint towards New Game Lore, giving you the reason to believe that the game really hasn't entirely ended when it has ended but there is actually a continuation to it.
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I still can't help thinking that their limited time would be better spent working on quests & dungeons available in the base game, making that reason enough to start again from the beginning to explore new avenues.
I'm with you. But Obsidian doesn't have a limited time, okay sure they stated 18 months, but I'm pretty sure we won't see this game in at least 20 months and at a max even 30 months. I hope they take extra time, not to implement all of our ideas but so that they can really take their time in making a good game. 18 months sounds about right for their original goal (1.1M). But they got to 4.1M, they will be able to do everything they originally intended at a much much quicker pace thanks to this. But they also added a lot of content with the stretch goals, as well as (most likely) their own ideas. They can do so much more economically for the game with 4.1M than they can with 1.1M *duh*
To be honest I would want the full product like... right now. But the full product won't be the full product if Obsidian doesn't take their time with it. So enough about the "Limited time", in my book, the only limited time Obsidian has is the time before their Company Economy starts to run low and they aren't able to pay full salary, that's when Obsidian would be starting to run out of time and they are probably long overdue
don't let it get that far either xD-
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My point is that the DnD spellbook, being abstracted from inventory management, essentially means it's an item 'bound' to the character. You never see the 'item', you can't move it around. The character can't get rid of it, swap it for another one, or give it to another character. A scroll learned and then unlearned is lost. You actually have to sacrifice something in order to learn new spells, and make meaningful choices for how you wish to develop your character. Because the abilities are tied to the character, not a removable item.I would say that the Mage Spellbook is an item. It just doesn't show up in your inventory. In the UI it has its own category, but where does he keep the book, is it not an item he carries with him? Is it void in existence? Doesn't you need the Spellbook to be able to cast spells in the IE games?
If the spellbook was a manageable item carried around by your character in their actual inventory, as the grimoires seem to be, it means it can be swapped between characters at your whim, removed, or replaced. Tying your characters core abilities to an item devalues the meaning of the character. If there's a significant drawback to exchanging your grimoire for another one, this issue might be moot.
The system might have a solution to all these concerns, but I think it's a good to bring them up for discussion.
The Fighter often carries a sword and shield, no? These items define the Fighter many times. Samurai live by the way of the sword, I don't mean to sound rude by the way (I'm just trying to get a point across), shouldn't the sword in this case be its own "Tab" in the UI? The same thing still applies for the Wizard, you throw the Grimoire on another character they won't know what to do with it. Do you have two Wizard's then you can swap books between them, but that wouldn't mean that both Wizards actually can cast all the magic within them (One might be a higher level, one of them might be a Fire focus Wizard, and the other is Ice focus or whatever).
: I was a bit worried about Grimoires too for a bit when I thought about "Looting" other Wizards and getting a full book with spells. Hence why I suggest some sort of "self-destruct" mechanism in the Grimoire, you only get a couple of pages (1, 2 or 3) from another Grimoire exactly like in Baldur's Gate. Late game Wizards gave more though, I think the maximum of scrolls I picked up was about 5 or 6?That's why I'm suggesting several different objects here,
* Grimoire; The Spell Book, a tangible inventory/equippable item. Off-Hand.
* Scrolls; Pages of the spell book, can be used to learn new spells and/or as Quick Items.
* Quarter Staves; Bind scroll magic to the Staff. Limited, but more powerful. Two-handed
* Wands; Shoots a low level spell/bolt at the enemy, equippable on Main-Hand.
So when you kill a Wizard you don't get a Grimoire, but you get Scrolls. Same thing as IE games, no difference really. Let me explain the additions tho, staves and wands:
In Baldur's Gate my Mage always carries either a dagger or a quarter staff and he stand off in the distance, almost never close combat except in rare occasion. Having a Wand and Tome sounds about proper. Having a Dagger and a Tome sounds about right too (Blood Magic). In Baldur's Gate I would only have the Dagger equipped, making the Grimoire basically an Off-Hand Utility Item (a Fighter wears a Shield). Perhaps even a Wizard with Sword and Tome, or Sword and Wand, now wouldn't that be cool? :D
However, like you say you don't want to be "stuck" with having to have the Grimoire equipped, that's why I am suggesting the idea of being able to bind magic spells to your Staff, creating a unique personalized enchanted staff <3 perhaps you become so good with the lower level spells (That Obsidian said you will be able to cast abundantly) that you might not even need a Grimoire for the lower level spells, or a Staff. Perhaps you are capable of throwing those spells with full plate armor and sword and shield, "Like a boss". However, ultimately the most powerful spells would be locked out unless you use the Grimoire. That's kind of the feeling I get from the usage of it.
You really need those long 2-page incantations in front of you to be able to cast them-
The Grimoire, as an item, gives so much more explaination and so much more can be done with it. In Baldur's Gate the spellbook is just there, it is never really explained. Not much information. It just sits there in your UI, no idea how your Wizard got the spell book or how he uses it to cast magic. In Planescape: Torment the spell book is at least tangible in a sense. You have to craft it before you can access it in your UI... which makes it (very much so) into an item.
This is interesting to see discussed . . . I'm curious, have you played D&D as a tabletop game, as a Wizard, and not just the IE interpretations - First Edition specifically?
Nope, I've never played tabletop games at all to be honest.
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- New Game+ = starting the game with the equipment and level from your last play-through at a higher difficulty.
Adding NG+ is essentially a way of re-starting of the game, for people who don't want to abandon all their precious loot & experience. The problem this opens up for a game like PE, which has barely any item randomization, is that you will simply find the same equipment over again in a NG+ environment... unless they'd artificially improve each item by, say, +1 when playing NG+. Which would just suck and be quite non-immersive.
That's the thing, why do you have to start with the same equipment? What with the souls and all, there could be an element of minor "story" and/or lore which is only unlockable or revealed on the second playthrough (cryptic questions that you couldn't answer on your first playthrough). The equipment you crafted and named yourself now drops in your second playthrough (late-game). I would like to see a New Game+ which is a fresh New Game from the very beginning (with level 1) where you don't have all the gear and loot from your previous game, but perhaps you get a slightly quicker start (as an option) to start at level 2 or perhaps even level 3 (outrageous!).
Perhaps there could be a secret dungeon that didn't exist, but in this parallel universe (2nd Playthrough/New Game+) it exists.
- New Game+ = starting the game with the equipment and level from your last play-through at a higher difficulty.
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since you get a base of operations in he form of a house or stronghold, you could asign the inactive companions to do stuff for you, rendering them unavailable for some time and getting them the xp they dont get by not being with you.
another method would be to have the option to pass a character's share of xp to another. so when my party completes a quest, and the members are lv10, 9, 9, 10, 8, 5, you can give the share that would go to the 2 lv10 members (your character maybe one of them) to the lv5 so he can get 3x xp and get to lv6 or even 7 faster
I like the first idea. I was actually thinking that if you set them about missions while your were gone; even routine ones, it would really great if when you came back you could get a report from them and it could play out like a mini-quest where you run that character. For example, say you have Sagani patrol the grounds while you are off in the world; upon return she would relay her story which would be told as a playable quest where you run Sagani (and possibly a few of your henchmen). Maybe, during a routine patrol, she finds a path that leads to a cave and a mini dungeon or lost crypt. Might be a bit much to take on for the devs, but it could be a lot of fun (depending on play style I guess).
That sound so badass...
flashback side-quests where you control someone else~ good example is Drizzt in "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance" (which is one of my most favorite side-dungeons). Final Fantasy VI does it too a lot... WarCraft III has a mission in a dungeon like it too (which is also pretty fun).Yes. P:E could definitely benefit from this. When Forton tells you his stories of his past, you'll also (sometimes) be able to play some of his stories, as Forton. That'd be so badass.
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Like someone said, this sounds like character specific. It all depends on the character, so this really addresses one companion (The Rogue/Thiefish one) and not all of them.
I like it though, I'd definitely want my party members demand stuff from me sometimes. Another companion could be distressed, scared. Depending on where you drop them off would give a different effect (Dropping someone off in the middle of the forest? He might not take that so kindly "But but, just here!? It's pitch dark middle of the night and there are monsters about, how can you do this to me!?" haha).
I'd love it for them to change depending on how they level up (Build order etc. etc.)... that'd be cool ^^
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since you get a base of operations in he form of a house or stronghold, you could asign the inactive companions to do stuff for you, rendering them unavailable for some time and getting them the xp they dont get by not being with you.
another method would be to have the option to pass a character's share of xp to another. so when my party completes a quest, and the members are lv10, 9, 9, 10, 8, 5, you can give the share that would go to the 2 lv10 members (your character maybe one of them) to the lv5 so he can get 3x xp and get to lv6 or even 7 faster
I like the idea, if it can be seen as "My main level 10 character is teaching the level 5". Passing on knowledge, and that's why you don't gain any experience. Could work, it also makes me think about some statistical outcomes, kind of like "The one who does most damage gets most experience", this way you will have to make every character in your group contribute to all battles, quests and so on and so forth... that is a bit "hardcorey" though (Difficulty option? :D)
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ha! beat me to the punch, cheers.
Cheers! :D ever had that feeling or intention that you're doing something at the same time as someone else in the world, sometimes?
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I'd like to suggest something about this, I personally think it is a good idea to have your characters gain experience. However it would be controlled:
A, If you ditch someone in the middle of his/her quest, they would/could continue doing that quest by themselves (and get a "companion alone" specific outcome), in this way the companion continues his/her questing and earns experience accordingly for finishing his/her quest by her/himself. You wouldn't be able to send a companion to the tavern unless they have finished their quests*
B, Send your companions out in missions, you are curious about a dungeon so you send your Rogue companion out there to scout the dungeon, you go and do a couple of other quests meanwhile, then you go back to the tavern or what rendevouz point you have decided and you get a rundown of the first level of the dungeon.
C, More companion "out-of-party" macro management.
B & C, why? Because I like to have as many companions as possible, and I like it when they level up and become stronger. In Dragon Age: Origins I was switching party members a lot (specially on Nightmare) because I needed/wanted different tactics for different areas and situations. So if I find a cool Chanter I want to try out later, but my party is full, I don't want the Chanter to rot in a tavern whilst my entire party goes up to level 20 and the Chanter is still sitting on a level 6. I wouldn't switch my party out at this point.
With that^ said I generally feel that if you have a Chanter in the Tavern/Personal House/Stronghold, he shouldn't get any experience at all (of course) unless I send him out on missions, and it is important (for *replayability!!) that you will *miss out on story elements, loot, experience and gear for your party if you send a companion of to do stuff. Equally important is that you'll get other story elements that you wouldn't get (both for the members you have in your party, as well as for what you can do with those not in your party would differ). You'll also miss their story if you don't have them in your party because they will finish their quests and get some renown themselves. Maybe you meet a Wizard companion early game who is a fool, weak and clumsy, instead of recruiting you tell him to sod off and kick him running, later game you meet a powerful man, who zaps you to death and is now a strong renowned villain and enemy, because of your choice (or you talk yourself out of it and you get a powerful wizard companion). Of course, likewise you could cheer him on and later you meet a kind loving Wizard that gladly joins your party.
* In a Tavern your companion would find new members to travel with and do quests with whilst they aren't in your party (Perhaps they go out on generic fetch quests or whatnot). Meaning that if you leave them at a Tavern, they might not be there when you go back. Randomized effect type of deal, they stay within an area (3 taverns in a circle perhaps?) and you might even meet them out in the open killing some randomized mob for this randomized event. However, it shouldn't be impossible to catch up your companion, if they are out traveling and gaining experience, if you fast travel to those 3 locations close by to where you left them, chances should be pretty much 100% that you find them <- complex coding that requires lots of thought, I believe
* In your personal house and/or stronghold your companions could work as defenders, cleaners, training in the training room etc. etc. start a shop and earn your group some money (If the companion not in your party is hanging around your stronghold, then whether they are in your party or not, they would definitely be a companion). I think P:E could benefit from "out of party" companions that you can do stuff with.
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My take;
First of all a quick explanation and what I see these three as (because they are different):
Thief = Someone who steals, most commonly for a living
Assassin = Someone who kills for a living
Rogue = A traveler, self-banished, survivalist, outdoorsman, mercantile/haggler. A vagabond, traveler... a ronin (roadtrippers and train hoppers, hitch-hikers, free loaders). Read Vaabond, so beautiful ad awesome manga. The hardcore codexians here seem to shun anime and manga but there are some intense, mature inspiration to be had (particularly from Berserk, Vinland Saga and Vagabond. Vagabond is a realistic fiction, story inspired by Miyamoto Musashi, trying to capture his mysterious existence in real history. Berserk is a gory, hardcory, deep story of a man who struggles through some pretty nasty adversaries, medieval fantasy. Vinland Saga is about vikings, haven't read it very far but it's deep and has a realistic tone to it).
1. Stealth/Sneak, should be a bonus in shadows and at night. I wouldn't mind a sneaking hunched down, lurking animation for it. Assassin's should be best at it and be able to blend and hide in the shadows, e.q., camouflage, Thief's and Rogue's would only sneak and wouldn't be able to hide (go transparent).
2. Backstab, anyone and everyone can backstab, however I do feel that Assassin's (in particular) could have an ability to strike at vital points (Vital Strike/Stab?).
3. Thievery, of course this is the main ability of the Thief's, the Rogue coming in second and the Assassin last. You should be able to steal from anyone, but instead of getting an entire screen of it, it should be a random item from the characters inventory. The better your pickpocket skill, the better and bigger items are you able to steal, for starters it might be a couple of gold pieces.
4. Scout/Search, equally important as all of the above, and this is the main ability of the Rogue. Being able to deduce, track, read the streets and the people, what kind of city it is. Are the people happy? Sad? How does this effect what you can expect from this city? This forest? What lurks within it, tracks of bandits but mostly spiderweb? Alright, so there's going to be tons of spiders here, better get the Spiderbane etc. etc. Find hidden caches? The road to treasure and glory? etc. etc. great ability that I want to see enhanced.
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I've got really one thing to say:
Make P:E's relationship like these Romance/Friendship threads. They sometimes show flames of war, and sometimes compassion of understanding. Sometimes they are filled with respect, sometimes with disrespect. Something love, sometimes hate.
However, I think Obsidian already got this covered with their great writers. Maybe these threads are simply a place to look for... inspiration? :')
Peace.
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With all the stretch goals, added content and stuff, specially the 14 levels (excluding Facebook). I'd be surprised if Obsidian manages to make a game within 18 months, if their primary goal was to fit in 100% of what they thought was enough (1.1M) within 18 months they got (~about) 120-130% to fit within 18 months now.
Why Facebook is important? It'll;
A, Obsidian will move up the popularity queue, Google will show their company before others (with less Facebook likes) and other search functions on the internet.
B, For future games, Obsidian will have more people/consumers (which is a resource in itself)
Overall, Facebook is important because of long term futuristic goals for Obsidian as a company. And if they get to 40k within the time-frame they have set up and we get dungeon level 16, I feel it appropriate that Obsidian would take more time. I hope that they take more time anyways, I'd say/guess we are looking at 22-24 months currently with all the content they got as of now *shrug* though I have no idea really, I just now that games usually go overdue with their release dates (only 1 month or 2 though). I wouldn't mind if it took 3 years to create P:E to be honest :D more time developing = more polished/closer to the unattainable perfection, in my book.
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"New Game+" is only interesting if you effect it somehow by your first playthrough (e.g., that armor you crafted in your first playthrough now randomly appears in your second playthrough. Quests are still played the same, but maybe with a slight personalized twist somehow, e.g., talking about your character you played with the first game) <- I understand that this isn't an easy task, to make game 2 refer to game 1.
I see New Game+ just like starting a new game entirely (from scratch, level 1, new class, new face, new race) but with some benefits (a quest you couldn't do before? A new start location? Items? Even deeper story? etc. etc.). So I'm not against it, because there are tons and tons of interesting things you can do with it. I'm not really for it either, though I lean towards "for" mainly because of the potentiality it has.
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I'd love to see a Spell Casting time reduction too, as you level up you'll throw them lower level spells faster. If I'm not completely mistaken this is how Icewind Dale (and probably all the other IE games) work. Cure Light Wounds is cast almost as fast as a Lay on Hands ability at the end (afair... I might've gotten an item that sped up the casting time too *shrug*).
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End game+? I'm not for an "after end-game", just throwing it out there. I really appreciated it about Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate that when it ended it ended... not really much to free roam about when you've finished any of those games. So I dunno...
Also, I'm talking about when you've finished all content (expansions too). When it ends it ends.
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For me, the one thing that kills replay value for me is playing through the same start for every character I create. I really hope that you can choose different backgrounds and therefore play through the beginning differently until you hit the main quest.
Yes, totally, I would love to be able to hit the main quest tree from each angle (entering it from North, West, East or South~ metaphor). What I'm suggesting is some sort of "Ostagar" that you can jump on in different ways, from different positions. It'd be awesome to be a regular guard or infantry man, and from that position you are noticed by the Grey Wardens and ultimately get to join them (instead of always, repetitively being escorted by Duncan). Or you are Wynne's ward/apprentice and go with her to Ostagar (without any involvement of Duncan). These ways make it more unique, in my opinion... is there any backdoor you can sneak in from, onto the main quest after the origin without each and every one of them practically starting the same?
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1, Party setup/party reaction
Story-wise, how does your party react (depending on who you got) to different events?
2, Tactical aspects
A Wizard in my party will change how I get through battles, whilst having a Chanter instead gives me a different style.
3, Origins~
Temple of Elemental Evil and Dragon Age: Origins both do this very well, now I have barely played ToEE anything so can't say much about the first starting area... but "Ostagar" is all I want to say, it looses a lot of replayability because of that. Candlekeep/Ostagar are both the same thing in my opinion, Ostagar just gives the illusion that it is not like that.
4, Paths
If you go evil, you should go evil. Factions in other words, there might be one Kingdom that accepts you into their city if you are evil, in turn the other Kingdom rejects you (and vice versa if you are good). Certain villages, or areas (e.g., Bandit Camps) will react to you differently.
5, NPC reaction
Continuous from "4," if you are good people might come up to you, cheer you on on your adventure (as your reputation grows or whatnot), whilst an evil path will make people run away and hide in their houses in some areas (closing windows as you pass by). Likewise, an evil city or village might pat you on your back and slither mature words down your ears in "agreement" to your actions.
6, Ease-of-use modding
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I can see some quests being repeatable, but mostly I find those quests tedious because they never leave the journal/"current quest"-section. Apart from that, there should be a limit to how many times you can do a certain quest, a merchant needs wolf pelts that he can sell to start his trading business. If you get him 5 wolf pelts 5 times he gets enough to start a small business, and each time you get to him you'll see his stock of items scale.
In that sense, should a merchant always have the same items? Or could another side-story NPC buy items and you can later track it down/find it somehow?
flashback side-quests where you control someone else~ good example is Drizzt in "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance" (which is one of my most favorite side-dungeons). Final Fantasy VI does it too a lot... WarCraft III has a mission in a dungeon like it too (which is also pretty fun).
New Game +
in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
*Shakes fist, shrugs off frustration, laughs*
Hi friend
Now to address some of your thoughts,
1,
HAHA! Okay let's not get into it. Why do you think I'm here in these forums? Level 5 is an example. Also, P:E seems to be a level 25~ game? Second playthrough, not available on first playthrough. Just to give you a quick boost on your second playthrough, you'd still start off at the beginning. You'd be able to catch up the story much faster, and run through most of the starting areas faster and get back on track on the "scaled" level of your characters level. You'd be able to jump into the game faster. Baldur's Gate really starts first after Nashkel Mines in my opinion, now if I could just rush through it on my 3rd, 4th or 5th playthrough of the area I would love to have that as an option. Now I can, thanks to modders and the like, and I'll be able to catch up to an area in the game past Nashkel Mines much faster. So this is more of a modders resource, but I don't see why it couldn't be a part of core P:E as well *shrug*
Not forced on you "You have to start at level 5!!!!" but "up to" level 5, on a second playthrough, your choice. Those who want to replay from Level 1 go ahead, those who want a quicker startup the second time choose Level 5. Or wait for Savegame Editors *shrug* it's just an idea. If all else it'll be a modding resource I'm sure.
2,
Yes! Allow it the first game, the second time you'd just be hinted to go towards the other path. You'd lock yourself out of content by "Choosing" paths the first playthrough anyways so I don't know what the problem is. I'm not suggesting 2 games packed in 1 á 50 hours each, I'm simply suggesting another path to the same place eh? Just to give you a different beginning. In the core game you will be able to have 5 companions in your party, there are 8 companions in the game with the Adventurer's Hall in the game. Are you going to utilize all of the companions on one playthrough? No. I am merely suggesting that there would be more content than simply "playing with the rest of the companions".
I am also looking into the idea of replayability. In a hypothetical situation, if one ending is only unlocked in a New Game+ scenario, then you will be more allured to replay the game no? And even if there only are 2 endings on your first playthrough, you will still lock yourself out of 1 of them by choosing it. Again, I don't see the problem. I'm just suggesting ideas for making you feel more inclined to play the game again, or for those who want to play the game more than once (which I think the title of this thread pretty much states).
3,
Of course, if he can I can. The difference will be that, to me, getting it from my friend would give it more interesting lore and it'll be fun too. Sure, I can craft the item in the game for myself for my character, name it after my friends item, it'll be my characters blade then, having it from my friend will just be interesting from another perspective (in my opinion). I'm not flirting with the mechanical aspects, I'm flirting with some story aspects, some aspects of out of game involvement. You are however, absolutely correct, in terms of robotic [in the box] "1's" and "0's".
4,
This thread is about New Game+ right? Right. New Game+ could very well be an expansion in itself though. What I am flirting with is not an expansion per say, but End Game Lore actually referring to Early Game Lore in some way that makes it more viable to play the game one more time in case a New Game+ is implemented (a.k.a. IF).