IndiraLightfoot

Like I've said before: Might seen as an inherent power linked to some brain-n-brawn mix is mighty cool and fresh! "Muscle wizard" isn't very accurate in its attempted mockery. I really hope Resolve gets to be just as useful and fantasy-like too. The attribute name alone is cool.

Fearabbit: I see what you mean. Lazily, I just used this thread since it started with "Attributes:...". I should have considered the entire thread title more, obviously. Still I'll add one more reply to PJ, and then we will need to move to another thread: INT: You are right. I was stuck in D&D thinking there. As for Healing, the fact that it can be moved around is at least good news when you need to balance the six attributes. DEX: Accuracy just seemed so alone there, heh. Carrying capacity limits - it doesn't really bother me that much - it can be good for certain gameplay reasons, even.

MIG: Damage, Healing. CON: Health/Endurance. I'd like to add carrying capacity here (Already in the Roman armies, there was no correlation between brawn and the capacity to carry heavy loads long distances. It took constitution/endurance. DEX: Accuracy. Movement speed somehow? PER: Crit chance, Interrupt. INT: AoE, Healing, Duration, Recovery time. How about increased number of talents and/or skills here? RES: Concentration, Duration. I'd like to move Healing here, since I envision it needs that will-power-like magical determination seen in many fantasy sagas, once again, The Last Airbender, springs to mind.

Here's a curve ball version of super-weapons that's always a risk: Crafting in MotB was so unbalanced that you could stack elemental damage onto any weapon and turn it into a super-weapon. It certainly wrecked all level-balancing, so I'd like to bring up a shaky, grumpy finger of warning for that. In general, I'd like to see unique weapons that allow for new ways to overcome certain combat obstacles, but weapons should never be nukes in a CRPG like this - they should make sense in the story and cultures of the world as well.

An ARPG, more or less, yeah. The NPCs weren't even silent in the convos. They grunted like an adult version of baby prattle.

Hopefully that's a correct assumption, Fearabbit, but I'm a bit pessimistic, since it was a clear opportunity for the dev's to "leak" that they are at least in the process of making objective xp more frequent.

archangel979: One was actually made, and I played like three times, and it sucked badly: Daggerdale. It's probably the worst D&D CRPG of all time, and I've played all of them, since I have no choice - I love D&D iterations! Yeah, parts of 4th ed would fit a well-balanced turn-based CRPG really well.

You can say that again! It bears repeating!! As for what's fun or not is subjective. One thing I remember, you and I both replayed IWD2 this spring, and we couldn't bear ourselves finishing it off, since combat got so tedious in the mid-game and onwards. However, in the first fourth of the game, there were plenty of varied and fun and challenging fights. Imagine if all combat encounters in PoE was like that! We would both find them challenging, exciting and not very grindy at all. And we shouldn't forget that the entire build-a-party, take-on-combat-challenges, is a big part, even an essence, of what made the IE games great.

EDIT: My last post was pretty hideous - What I basically meant was that praising high-level CRPGs or extremely story-heavy ones for them being able to withstand really stretched out xp awards is a bit moot: Most of the character development and progress, you get for free at the start of the game or while you pick yourself through all the convo options.

Malekith: I haven't really though about that. I for one loved the entire NWN2 series, but I can't seem to recall a single item, so that certainly wasn't where it's strength lay.

Here's a tough one: The impact of any lacking kill xp/low-increment xp rewards for accomplished tasks MotB and BG2, where your party is high-levelled and all, (you started in a lobby, and it was character creation paradise), must be much lower. In low-level PoE, where it will take our pc plus its party, from level 1 to a maximum of level 12 (off on a short tangent: Remember NWN2 OC - it was hard getting your pc to reach lvl 18 there, but hardly in PoE, since all is quest xp - they have full control of where your pc wil be at the end - no variation), without xp in tiny increments, won't it be very unlikely that you'd get as excited as you got when you finally reached a new level in BG1, for instance, when you were new at the game, I must add (not when you knew how to get xp in the best way)?

...and between balance and bleak, bland and bloated.

freche: That's of course very true. We should not forget that PoE1 is a low level game.

archangel79: If they don't fix combat as it stands right now, which I'm sure they will, it would have been sweet having a turn-based combat system, but basing it on 4th ed...

That is the question. If the story is just as deep, multi-branched and complex as in PS:T, it certainly would alleviate any grudging over the missing combat xp system.

Perhaps the best example of them harmonizing was Obsidian's own MotB, and the Spirit Meter. It could be annoying at times, but I can't recall any game that made it all fit so perfectly.

Malekith: Thank you for a great and important post, since this will affect replayabilty a lot too, now that quest xp only is confirmed. Itemization will be key to get our incentives up for replaying and exploring in new ways as opposed to our first playthrough. All in all - we need to be encouraged to snoop around and try to get our hands on new items, which essentially means encouragement for not taking the quest line routes each and every time just to get our levels up. Itemization in BG2 was brilliant, it would mean a lot for the longevity of the game. A great variety that goes beyond basic numbers, and that gives us unique and varied items would help. Also, btw, in Reaper of Souls, for instance, Blizzard actually improved the itemization of their legendary items a lot, so if they can, Obsidian can too.

QFT! (especially in the tradition of CRPGs) As for them scrapping kill xp in order to get an easier ride balancing their open world: Hmm, not so sure about that. Think about it. Most peeps at Obsidian have been making plenty of CRPGs, and most of them had such combat xp systems in. They would be capable, and they certainly have had enough time, to include one, if they wanted to. Moreover, IIRC, there will be area choke points in their precious quest lines, any way, which would have regulated that pace nonetheless.

BrokenMask: I reckon, they removed it, because they simply don't like it/care for it. Also, we already know, they won't switch back before this game's released, regardless, unless Feargus puts his veto in and gets the ball moving earlier.

I'll hazard a guess: Something like the MMO-oozing 4th ed of D&D, instead of the option-heavy, tinker-friendly 3.5 ed, for instance.

The point Stun's making is spot-on: It's not improving one jota. It's not getting deeper. For that, they would go down the route InXile's planning for T:ToN, for instance, but from what we've seen so far - this is indeed an IE-inspired game with the combat-trap-lock-puzzle-xp missing.

Some of that stuff gets a bit rich, to be sure, but it also shows how passionate people are about some of the aspects of their beloved CRPGs. Obsidian, and Josh in particular, made it clear in some interview recently, how well aware they are of this.

Yeah. They posted quite a dire list of bugs that they were already aware of - so they were super-busy before we dumped heaps of new bugs on them.

I do recall you wrote something about it earlier - I just tried to keep the hopes up; I mean, they did change their minds about crafting, weapon/armour degeneration IIRC, and they allowed for the co-existenece of two UIs - one old-school and NWN2-like. Well, you were certainly right about this, though.

It will be very hard getting used to OE's version of CRPG 2.0, but I'll adjust, I just need a xp-detox at a rehab first. It will hurt.